J&S Safeguard with Greddy TT and eManage
04-23-2004, 06:51 PM
#22
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Looks like I missed the conversation about the J&S. If you're going to do this mod, I'd highly recommend a gauge, so you can monitor the level of knock retard. You can buy one from John, or use his schematics and build your own like I did. Here's a pic of my setup, for those who might not have seen it. Techedge Wideband O2 gauge on the left, J&S knock retard indicator on the right, below the stereo HU for those who don't know.
04-23-2004, 06:56 PM
#23
That looks very good. I am going to go with John's meter.
He said that he would hook up with me and an installer to help make sure it went well. There have been some issues with getting it to work right on the G35/350Z so it is not necessarily all perfect.
John indicated he drove to Arizona recently. Was that to help out with any glitches with your install?
He said that he would hook up with me and an installer to help make sure it went well. There have been some issues with getting it to work right on the G35/350Z so it is not necessarily all perfect.
John indicated he drove to Arizona recently. Was that to help out with any glitches with your install?
04-23-2004, 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by Eagle1
John indicated he drove to Arizona recently. Was that to help out with any glitches with your install?
John indicated he drove to Arizona recently. Was that to help out with any glitches with your install?
04-26-2004, 01:43 AM
#26
Although using the J&S box to automatically retard timing would work, is this the best option? Isnt it a 'safegaurd' not a on the fly tuning mechanism. Meaning isnt retarding the timing after the knock a bit late and shouldnt it only be used as a backup should you not put the correct amount of timing in yourself to save your motor?
04-26-2004, 05:53 AM
#27
Originally posted by mchapman
Although using the J&S box to automatically retard timing would work, is this the best option? Isnt it a 'safegaurd' not a on the fly tuning mechanism. Meaning isnt retarding the timing after the knock a bit late and shouldnt it only be used as a backup should you not put the correct amount of timing in yourself to save your motor?
Although using the J&S box to automatically retard timing would work, is this the best option? Isnt it a 'safegaurd' not a on the fly tuning mechanism. Meaning isnt retarding the timing after the knock a bit late and shouldnt it only be used as a backup should you not put the correct amount of timing in yourself to save your motor?
Yes, definitely, it is only a safeguard as its name indicates.
It has value in a couple of respects, the first of which is that it detects and responds to knock electronically far faster than we can as human beings. And it will show you how much retard it applies (each of ten lights represents one degree of ignition timing, or if you so set it you can get two degrees for each light).
The second is that with that safety in place, you can then attempt to correctly tune the engine. The problem with any FI engine trending to lean at WOT is that you may inadvertantly stray too close to the line, and a variable such as bad gas, altitude, temperature, or combinations of those and other factors can throw you off, and into the pre-ignition-early detonation danger zone. There are also instances where even with some caution folks have blown their motors on the dyno while tuning.
So the safe choice without the unit should always wind up being on the side of more rich than you really want to go. That is definitionally not the correct or more optimal tune. This device, when working properly as it is intended to work, will allow you to put in the correct amount of timing for the tune with some peace of mind.
It should not be engaging with any degree of frequency if the tune is correct, and if it does so engage, then one should probably go back to further tuning adjustments to correct that, rather than rely on the J&S unit to keep intervening to save your engine.
04-26-2004, 06:25 AM
#28
The J&S can also be setup with a basline amount of retard. For instance...1 degree of retard for every 1000rpm beyond 4000rpm or whatever. You can also setup to retard using boost as one of the axis. For instance, one degree of retard for every PSI of boost. It is actually quite tunable in a sense that you can program in your basic retard, and then the Safeguard will cover you if you exceed the knock threshold. That's how I would probably use it.
04-26-2004, 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by gq_model_626
The J&S can also be setup with a basline amount of retard. For instance...1 degree of retard for every 1000rpm beyond 4000rpm or whatever. You can also setup to retard using boost as one of the axis. For instance, one degree of retard for every PSI of boost. It is actually quite tunable in a sense that you can program in your basic retard, and then the Safeguard will cover you if you exceed the knock threshold. That's how I would probably use it.
The J&S can also be setup with a basline amount of retard. For instance...1 degree of retard for every 1000rpm beyond 4000rpm or whatever. You can also setup to retard using boost as one of the axis. For instance, one degree of retard for every PSI of boost. It is actually quite tunable in a sense that you can program in your basic retard, and then the Safeguard will cover you if you exceed the knock threshold. That's how I would probably use it.
04-26-2004, 07:13 PM
#31
Ok, so it is a safeguard but it can also be used as a tuning device because you can chose how much timing you want to take out first, then if it has to automatically remove timing you know to take out some more until it doesnt have to automatically respond.
04-26-2004, 07:29 PM
#32
pretty much. For optimum power, I'd rather be right on the bring of pinging, and then have the J&S occasionally retard. If you tuned it your way, there would probably slightly too much timing 90% of the time. It's really preference. This device works so quickly, you will never hear pinging...even if it has to automatically retard timing becuase of knocking. It is making these decisions at the speed of combution, and in between intake and compression strokes...the human ear would never hear a thing.
04-26-2004, 08:58 PM
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GQ, thank you for sharing all this great info!
I plan to go the FI route once funds are present
and this J&S is something I'll do for sure.
Now, here's a question. Can the eManage or J&S advance timing at all? If someone were staying NA and had access to better gas, could they use either or both of these tools to up their power through timing control?
I plan to go the FI route once funds are present
and this J&S is something I'll do for sure. Now, here's a question. Can the eManage or J&S advance timing at all? If someone were staying NA and had access to better gas, could they use either or both of these tools to up their power through timing control?
04-26-2004, 10:53 PM
#35
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Originally posted by UsafaRice
GQ, thank you for sharing all this great info!
I plan to go the FI route once funds are present and this J&S is something I'll do for sure.
Now, here's a question. Can the eManage or J&S advance timing at all? If someone were staying NA and had access to better gas, could they use either or both of these tools to up their power through timing control?
GQ, thank you for sharing all this great info!
I plan to go the FI route once funds are present
and this J&S is something I'll do for sure. Now, here's a question. Can the eManage or J&S advance timing at all? If someone were staying NA and had access to better gas, could they use either or both of these tools to up their power through timing control?
04-27-2004, 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by BriGuyMax
I believe you can advance timing using a Nissan consult....
I believe you can advance timing using a Nissan consult....
04-27-2004, 07:20 AM
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Actually, you can go to 5-degrees and still be within spec, but after 2-3degrees you have to perform an Idle Air Volume Learning BEFORE you go the last 2-3degrees. Most techs don't know that, so the ECU starts fighting them around 3degrees, since idle speed is dependent on timing and the ECU is adjusting timing to keep idle speed constant.
Anyways, I don't believe it makes ANY difference beyond 2000rpm or so, since the factory ECU advances well beyond 20-degrees by then. So, it's really only beneficial for autos that want a little more grunt out of the hole when they romp it. Any time you give a manual throttle to engage the gear, it's already advancing.
Anyways, I don't believe it makes ANY difference beyond 2000rpm or so, since the factory ECU advances well beyond 20-degrees by then. So, it's really only beneficial for autos that want a little more grunt out of the hole when they romp it. Any time you give a manual throttle to engage the gear, it's already advancing.
04-27-2004, 04:47 PM
#38
Yes, the Consult II is quite a gem...and if I had a thousand or so dollars to spare, and a connection at Nissan to actually purchase one...it would be the diagnostic tool of choice for the 350Z. You can do almost anything with that tool. I don't see much benifit in significantly advanceing timing on this car. There is 25-45degrees of advance dialed in...and the ECU adjustments automatically based on current conditions. With the consult, you can slightly retard or advance timing, but you can't make the types of changes we'd need to make...boost dependent...RPM dependent...etc..etc.
And correct...piggybacks can only retard timing. All they are doing is intercepting the ECU ignition pulse, and then delaying it for a split second. But they dont have the capability to iniatiate their own advance timing command.
And correct...piggybacks can only retard timing. All they are doing is intercepting the ECU ignition pulse, and then delaying it for a split second. But they dont have the capability to iniatiate their own advance timing command.
04-29-2004, 02:46 AM
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Here's a piggyback that CAN advance the timing:
http://members.tripod.com/~FastAzzBeretta/SMRTSPRK.jpg
It's called the Smart Spark, by Digicon. Not much on the web about them, though, so I don't know if they are still around. The one I have is from '91. I was amazed when I put it on the bench, and saw that it would advance the timing. They must be triggering on the other edge of the signal.
It's a one channel unit, so it wouldn't work on a 350Z. They were about $300.
http://members.tripod.com/~FastAzzBeretta/SMRTSPRK.jpg
It's called the Smart Spark, by Digicon. Not much on the web about them, though, so I don't know if they are still around. The one I have is from '91. I was amazed when I put it on the bench, and saw that it would advance the timing. They must be triggering on the other edge of the signal.
It's a one channel unit, so it wouldn't work on a 350Z. They were about $300.