What does nissan do to make that extra 13hp but loose 14lbs/tq, on the '05 track edition?

 

i know thats not the track edition......i'm trying to get a pic of my car over by my signature.

 

there's a lot of threads about this

I might be wrong on a few points here so someone correct me if I mess anything up.

different lower plenum, different cams, slightly stronger rods, slightly different pistons, raise redline to 7100 (or was it 7000 or 7200?), new VTC with variable valve timing, and reprogrammed ECU

otherwise it's the same car as the other models with the brakes, wheels, aero package w/rear diffusers included

So far reviewers seem less impressed with it than the older engine because even though the 300 hp engine has more power, it loses a lot of torque, and you don't start getting into the power band until up really high on the RPM's

 

Mid plenum...

the heads on the 05 make less power the way the cumbustion chambers are angled... thus needing the new pistons... the heavier rods in the 05 REV-UP engine also decrease horse power... They made up the horse power with the new cams and exhaust VTC...

Just put the mid plenum (commonly refferd to as lower plenum) on your car and call it a day...

That is if you can get your hands on one...

Jason

 

Go Heels!!!

Jason,
How long is the wait on the mid (lower) plenum?

 

Does this mean that the engine will not get as much power with a twin turbo setup as the 287hp engine?

 

Aren't the new internals stronger, yet heavier? and also aren't the pistons lower compression? Maybe the new heads help make up some compression, don't know never really saw a definite answer to this. Didn't know the new cams were any different, but adding VTC to the exhaust valves as well musta helped some (like stated above). I guess it would then make sense that atleast the cams on the exhaust side might be a little different.

If putting FI on the new engine, I think you may actually gain power since with the stronger internals maybe now you can run more like 10 psi on it? Interesting... IMO they built this engine more geared towards FI, because they are preparing for the new GT-R release (R35). I don't think that is a secret to anyone.

 

I am really starting to wonder about the new 300 HP engine, it increased HP by 13 but decreased Tq by 14. The end result, EVERY 0-60 and 1/4 time has been higher than the older engine (isn't 5.8 the fastest so far with the NEW engine and a 5.3 is the best with the old, obviously there hasn't been as many tests with the new one, but that still has me scratching my head a bit). Personally, I am starting to think that a "focus" group got together and said that the car needed to have 300 hp, they go it, but is that a good thing??

 

I am sure way more than 50% of 350Z owners are clueless about cars, engines, horsepower, torque, etc. So, advertising a "new and improved 300 horsepower engine" appeals to the masses when comparing to other cars (like an STi with 300 HP). Sounds like a marketing strategy FORD would use, well, DOES use on a current basis. "More available torque than any other full size truck that comes with small tires in it's class on a Wednesday after it rains on a Tuesday if there is a golf tournament in New York City teeing off... etc etc."

Plus maybe they consider the new one more tuner friendly (for F/I).

 

Being an 05 track owner and having driven two 04 Z's i can comment a bit on the engine changes. Its nothing really to get excited about, and most people seem to make a huge deal on the changes and especially the loss of torque. From my experience, you cant feel the loss of tq between either motor, most likely due to a different powerband in the 05 from cams/ecu changes. 0-60 is probably the same, most magazine tests are rediculous anyway so i wouldnt factor those in until you see some real owners with real drag slips in the same conditions. The 300hp motor does however feel a bit better from 4.5k onwards to redline than the 287hp motor. Again, nothing huge but id say good for a tenth or two in the quarter mile given equal drivers, conditions etc. The cam changes and exhaust side VTC are the reasons for this. What would have been cool IMO is if nissan actually make some better changes for the 35th model and whatnot like an even 350hp for the anny model. I'm sure its not that far out there given a more aggressive cam, and tuning like others have done.

 

My bro just got a G35 coupe, the difference it torque is noticable, driven both cars back to back. The engine does seem to rev maybe a bit better, but I heard that some focus group complained that the 350z seemed to touchy and was harder to drive in lower RPMs and maybe that lead to the changes (more driver freindly?).

As for 0-60 and 1/4 times, I am not sure why you say they are a joke, frankly, in my experience of driving sports cars over the past 20 years, if a mag says a particular car is quicker 0-60, usually it is, and if it isn't then it was do to driver error or someone that modded a car. Like I said, the quickest 0-60 time for the 05 is 5.8 the quickest for the 03/04 is 5.3 (and a 13.77 quarter). 1/2 sec is a lot more than just a fluke for me to accept (this is the exact time that the older 280 hp G35c were doing with 200 lbs more wt). Obviously the numbers for the 05 are not as numberous, but the 2 or tests that are out there are far off of the first 2 or so tests that were done when the Z first came out. Maybe we will see the times come down, but I HIGHLY doubt that they actually end up being quicker (so whats the point).

Another beef I have, the lower the torque, I think really effects the track speed, I remember reading a couple tests (still have the copies) where the Z beat the M3 SMG and a 911 with a sport wheel and package option. And another test where it beat the S2000 and the Mustang Billit (or was it a mach 1?) and audi TT. Now the Z has gone down in torque and he S has gone up and guess who won this time??? It has effected the track time too, imho.

 

I wonder why Nissan just didn't throw on the Nismo exhaust and another simple mod on the TRACK model (think of how perfect that would be, lighter wt exhaust and more HP AND Torque) and then the HP would be about 300hp and the Torque would be about 20 ft lbs MORE than the 05 track!?!?!? I don't get it.

 

About the 0-60 times, I am not defending my car saying "IT IS FASTER!!", but I have read several magazines that have times 1/2 sec. difference on many cars. It is all about getting the best launch.

 

The review of the 35th on car and driver states and i quote "Nor was the quarter-mile time shorter, just equaling the Touring's at 14.3 seconds, but this had a lot to do with the state of the desert test facilities after big winter storms. Grip was in short supply."

So back to my original point, jumping to conclusions on mag times is so so, because conditions always vary. Even with the higher quarter time, it still trapped at 101, which is the best trap speed of any mag test if you wanna go that route... Seems like nissan makes a few changes and everyone jumps all over the car saying its a slow POS because it lost a few pound feet of PEAK TORQUE, which really isnt important anyway.

 

crap, I just looked at the data again in the article, they mentioned that it was a bad day or track?? I am NOT so sure, look at the S2000, Z4, Boxster S, 911, etc.....Times, they are amoung the BEST times I have seen for those cars. I am NOT sure I buy the track condition excuse.

btw, the BEST trap speed is NOT 101, I remember there was a 102.X in one of the mags, in March MT 2004, they have the Z KILLING the new S2000 and doing a 5.3 0-60 and a 13.77 1/4 at 100.94MPH (basically a 101). Thus my theory, maybe the new 300 HP motor catches up in teh MPH later, but it may lag a bit in the bottom end?? (although I still think we haven't seen ENOUGH times yet to conclude that)

 

btw, I hope you weren't refering to me saying it was a SLOW POS????

 

here is a recent test with a 287hp enthusiest that did a 102.2 MPH 1/4
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/seda...g/index10.html

 

this article had a 101.89 MPH for a stock Z in 03
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...50z/index.html

 

I'm sorry. I said it in the other thread and I'll say it again:

A loss of 14 ft-lbs of torque does not equal a loss of a half-second 0-60. Thats ridiculous. I truly believe the difference between motors is negligible.

And those magazine writers are journalists, not racecar drivers. How come people here at My350z can hit 13.7's and 13.8's all day when they can only hit low 14's? I realize there are a lot of variables that go into it, including temperature, humidity, traction, driver ability, etc.

 

agree. My point is that I wonder why they even did the 300 hp engine when they decreased torque at the same time, they could have thrown a Nismo exhaust on there, and another goodie, got 300 hp and actually INCREASED torque as well. No way that it equals 1/2, but it sure isn't looking like it is actually faster than the 287 engine, so why bother? Just to say one has 300 hp??