VandyZ

iTrader: (2)

Ok you were just trying to help answer the question as was I. The difference is I do have a connection to Crawford Z Car and will set the record accordingly. We can bicker back and fourth all day and waste lots of time.

Your stance:

Someone needs to post unbiased dynos to prove this one way or another.

My stance:

Someone can post unbiased dynos to prove this one way or another. But until they do we offer dyno plots from 3 different cars and offer the fact that over 100 units are out there with happy owners and plenty of positive feedback.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

I agree with that. Good luck.

VandyZ

iTrader: (2)

Do you think that maybe people dont dyno because they are so impressed with the performance right out of the box they have no need to spend $$$ on dyno pulls?

hfm

iTrader: (1)

It could be that. You have a lot of people who feel gains. More likely, people just don't bother to do dynos.

When I installed the Pop Charger, I could definitely feel a change due to the sound at 4k but as for any real gains, it's not enough to feel the claimed 6.5 hp. The only modification I've done that seemed to make any significant difference was the LBMS testpipe w/resonator which claims 11 hp if I recall correctly. If the plenum does add 9 hp to a car, and I believe that it could do that to a car, then sure, I would think someone could feel that. Actually, I did feel a difference with the Borla TD as well. My thought is it takes at about 10 hp to notice a difference.

Whatever the case, you summarized our positions very well and when people post dynos, I hope you will find support for the 9 hp gain. If it happens, I might call you to place an order.

350zdanny

This board is unbelievable.

Vandy -

Everyone got your point. There is no need to defend Crafword products with such a high product approval rating and I agree with you.

I love that this board is clogged with **** all the time. When I bought my Z 6 months ago there was actually some valuable information on it. Now there's a 3 page thread full of crap that could have been answered in 10 posts max.

No there is not any unbiased Crawford evidence except for the fact that the damn things sell like crazy.

Yes Crawford did extensive dyno testing. Nobody will ever know whether it was cooked or not, but based on the product and the customer response, how can Crawford's integrity be questioned?

You want proof? Buy a ****ing plenum. It's $450. If you don't like the results, sell it for $300 and wash your hands of it. That's the only way to get unbiased info. Do it your god damned self!

protocav

iTrader: (3)

well danny...thank you for your blunt suggestion.

i think i will order one right now.

PhoenixINX

Enough of the damnit .

If you don't like the plenum, and the power... to hell with it. Drive your Z.

If you're into modding, etc. pick it up and try it. Like dude said, if you do not like it - sell it - there are always 20+ in line waiting for one... rest assured you could rapidly resell yours at a small loss.

zzzya

iTrader: (2)

I honestly wish I had access to a chassis dyno, but I do not. I am not as fortunate as some of you in the bigger cities or close to the bigger cities where you have great access to auto shops that work on import modding and so on. I do the work myself and take the car to the 1/4 strip and use my a$$ to tell a difference. May not be perfect but thats what I got so I'll use it. The Crawford products are for real, period. Buy the package right now if you are staying N/A and you will not regret it. I know that I do not, except for the beating I took from my wife. I have been dissatisfied with the performance of the Z from day one as far as responsiveness and power go. I love the handling and bought the car knowing that the mods would be there to play with. I have a 69 Camaro with gobs of torque and power. The Camaro will blow the Z away hands down. I wanted some of that same feel in the Z and for the first time since owning the Z I feel much better about its performance. I installed the last piece of the Crawford package, headers, and wow! This car really screams from 2500 RPMs up now. It is still not even close to the raw power of the Chevy V8, but now I can honestly enjoy the responsiveness and mid-upper rpm torque and power. You will not find any one N/A mod that just makes it all happen. You will need multiple upgrades to get the real potential out of the car. The Crawford package makes sense and for N/A mods is very reasonable dollar wise. Staying N/A is expensive. A nice S/C setup is probably the most cost effective way to get major gains, then TT, then N/A mods. As for Crawford, you will be hard pressed to find anyone nicer and more customer oriented than Doug. If you start with the plenum and work your way to their other products, Doug will take care of you. If I had it to do over again and the entire Crawford package was available at the price Doug is selling it, I would have jumped on it. The only difference is I would have driven my a$$ to TN to have them install it.

JPCo

Yeah, that's what I'd say about my plenum install!

The difference is there-------all you gotta do is FEEL IT!

zxsaint

I'd be willing to do an independant dyno if Crawford sells me a plenum, minus dyno fees and offers a 100% buyback refund including shipping.

We can set up another socal dyno day at the same place: Powertrain dynamics (dynojet). Pull 2 baselines, install the part, do 2 more.

If I gain 7+ hp peak and 15+ at redline, crawford silences the skeptics and sells more.

If the numbers dont meet claims, I send it back on your dime for a refund.

In either case, it gets fully documented and accounted for by more than a few members here along with a full review.

rodH

iTrader: (2)

show me 1 UNBIASED test that shows you got 11hp with the test pipes??

just for the record, my PLENUM gained more Butt Dyno HP than my test pipes (withOUT resinators).

oh, and 6.5HP for a air filter....ya, whatever....show me that dyno as well

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

neutral party here:
but no where did i see HFM post anything saying your guys' parts were trash. he basicaly states that from our independent test at the so cal dyno, there wasnt really a gain from what a total of about 15-20 people witnessed.

no words such as "trash" or anything refering to your parts was said by HFM. he just has expressed his opinion. no need to get all ancy and defensive about that.

now i am patiently waiting on the dyno's of your headers by our members to see what it compares to the Nismo version.

PhoenixINX

The item is now the to the point of selling itself, point in hand - he doesn't need a greater load.

The time was to dyno THREE SEPERATE cars, THREE SEPERATE days... the gains were all the same.

The proof is in the pudding - Either you're a believer. Or you're not. On a humorous note, had it been released with a NISMO name stamped on it - NO ONE would have ever questioned it.

Guys - welcome to the real world. The BIG power adders are made by the guys who need power at the track. There are DECADES of experience between Doug and his associates whom produce parts for you.

As it has always been said... once you're ready - step up to the plate. Doug will be ready for you.

PhoenixINX

Standing neutral here... as your comment is interesting.

You're the first dyno to EVER not show gains - ever questioned the dyno operator?

I ask this because we showed gains on Nashville dynos, others showed gains in Chattanooga, Atlanta, Dallas - the list goes on.

Yet ironically the ONLY dyno that didn't make power... was yours? Hmmmmmm.

KJY9

Is that $450.00 for my350z.com forum members price?

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

my dyno? my car was completely stock, i think the crawford dyno was "350z4steve"

but anyways, i would really like to see good hp gains, maybe if i can scrounge up more $$ i will order a plenum and take it back to the same dyno. believe me, i would like to prove your gains but as a ful; time student, and goin to college, i have no more $$ after buying the car....


edit: p.s. actually, i am waiting on your headers first

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Do a search.

That's a very fair offer. I wonder if if Crawford is willing to put their money where their mouth is.

If Zxsaint's challenge is accepted and gains are proven, you won't see another sceptical post from me.

Until then, and until I see more reasonable posts like VandyZ's summarizing our positions, I'm not going to accept the obnoxious posts from you or anyone else that claim something without any proof.

And, on that point, I'm sick of your annoying, offensive and derrogatory posts that constantly attack anyone that doesn't support Crawford. Evil, Phoenix, The Individual, Chris, the guy on the dyno sheet or whatever the hell your name is, I'm sure you've changed your name so many times because you just can't get along with others. I seem to recall you were gone from the forum at one point in time, perhaps it would have been good if you stayed gone.

zzzya

iTrader: (2)

Kinda funny how only those who have not had the Crawford Plenum on their car can put it down. Its almost as if they shot off their mouths and now they don't want to swallow their pride and order one, but deep inside they are grinding at the bit to get the gains somehow, someway. Its all ok with me. The way I see it, the fewer people with the Crawford package the more my car stands out. The power from the package is frickin insane. I just love driving the car now. Can't wait for this damn weather to go away so I can get the summer tires back on and have some real fun!!

KJY9

Heck...it'll be solved in two weeks time...next week I'm having the plenum & headers installed at Crawford Z..then off to LA for the TS ECU flash. I've got my baseline dyno when it was stock and I'll run it again after the mods are complete. I have no problem shelling out the $$ for the headers and plenum. Then we can close this thread on a good note

hfm

iTrader: (1)

You know, there are bound to be people like RodH, 350zdanny and yourself who have the Crawford Plenum and are perfectly happy with it. We can continue what was discussed on this thread: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....0&pagenumber=3

But, what's the point? Z1 Performance's post on that thread is the bottom line. It's what Zxsaint has offered. And, unless you or anyone else cares to post your same day base line and after Crawford install dyno, I really couldn't careless what you say. You know something, I think I'll quote you from that thread:

I showed mine. Your turn.