any real evidence for crawford plenum?
12-13-2003, 11:16 AM
#85
Originally posted by hfm
I was so interested that I asked my usual knowledgable source about it. His comment was essentially that the engine has won awards for almost a decade. If there were something wrong with the stock plenum or a way to improve it, Nissan who has spent millions in it's design would have done so. So, who are these fantastic team of engineers that in less than a year and on a shoe string budget, single handedly create the solution that creates simply incredible, awesome, *add your glowing comment* amounts of power?
I was so interested that I asked my usual knowledgable source about it. His comment was essentially that the engine has won awards for almost a decade. If there were something wrong with the stock plenum or a way to improve it, Nissan who has spent millions in it's design would have done so. So, who are these fantastic team of engineers that in less than a year and on a shoe string budget, single handedly create the solution that creates simply incredible, awesome, *add your glowing comment* amounts of power?
Last edited by rodH; 12-13-2003 at 12:32 PM.
12-13-2003, 01:00 PM
#86
quote:
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Originally posted by rodH
show me 1 UNBIASED test that shows you got 11hp with the test pipes??
just for the record, my PLENUM gained more Butt Dyno HP than my test pipes (withOUT resinators).
oh, and 6.5HP for a air filter....ya, whatever....show me that dyno as well
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OK, I got back from my search, for some reason I have spent a long time trying to find teh Dynos of an unbiased (non-manuf) Z that has shown a 6.5 hp gain for teh Pop Charger ALONE, and 11 HP for the test pipes ALONE and CAN'T find one. Can you guide me to some? (obviously you don't buy anything til it is DYNO proven by an independent car owner, so this should be as easy request as I would assume you have done all teh homework already and saved the links in your "favorites"
If in fact the pop charger does get 6.5 HP I WANT ONE ASAP, this is the BEST deal on the market if this is the case!!!??
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Originally posted by rodH
show me 1 UNBIASED test that shows you got 11hp with the test pipes??
just for the record, my PLENUM gained more Butt Dyno HP than my test pipes (withOUT resinators).
oh, and 6.5HP for a air filter....ya, whatever....show me that dyno as well
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by hfm
Do a search.
Do a search.
If in fact the pop charger does get 6.5 HP I WANT ONE ASAP, this is the BEST deal on the market if this is the case!!!??
Last edited by rodH; 12-13-2003 at 01:02 PM.
12-13-2003, 01:05 PM
#87
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Originally posted by The Individual
Go download it...
There are typically 20+ Z members online all the time. Good way to ask quick q's.
Or take... QUICK STABS!
I'm heading down to the shop... we'll keep everyone posted on the "bad news".
Go download it...
There are typically 20+ Z members online all the time. Good way to ask quick q's.
Or take... QUICK STABS!
I'm heading down to the shop... we'll keep everyone posted on the "bad news".
12-13-2003, 01:26 PM
#88
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Originally posted by rodH
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by rodH
show me 1 UNBIASED test that shows you got 11hp with the test pipes??
just for the record, my PLENUM gained more Butt Dyno HP than my test pipes (withOUT resinators).
oh, and 6.5HP for a air filter....ya, whatever....show me that dyno as well
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I got back from my search, for some reason I have spent a long time trying to find teh Dynos of an unbiased (non-manuf) Z that has shown a 6.5 hp gain for teh Pop Charger ALONE, and 11 HP for the test pipes ALONE and CAN'T find one. Can you guide me to some? (obviously you don't buy anything til it is DYNO proven by an independent car owner, so this should be as easy request as I would assume you have done all teh homework already and saved the links in your "favorites"
If in fact the pop charger does get 6.5 HP I WANT ONE ASAP, this is the BEST deal on the market if this is the case!!!??
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by rodH
show me 1 UNBIASED test that shows you got 11hp with the test pipes??
just for the record, my PLENUM gained more Butt Dyno HP than my test pipes (withOUT resinators).
oh, and 6.5HP for a air filter....ya, whatever....show me that dyno as well
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I got back from my search, for some reason I have spent a long time trying to find teh Dynos of an unbiased (non-manuf) Z that has shown a 6.5 hp gain for teh Pop Charger ALONE, and 11 HP for the test pipes ALONE and CAN'T find one. Can you guide me to some? (obviously you don't buy anything til it is DYNO proven by an independent car owner, so this should be as easy request as I would assume you have done all teh homework already and saved the links in your "favorites"
If in fact the pop charger does get 6.5 HP I WANT ONE ASAP, this is the BEST deal on the market if this is the case!!!??
i remember this thread, so i did a seach and i found his dyno for the pipes. this probably isnt the latest since we had a dyno day here, but here it is:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....bms+test+pipes
12-13-2003, 02:20 PM
#89
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12-13-2003, 02:39 PM
#90
Originally posted by daytona350z
i remember this thread, so i did a seach and i found his dyno for the pipes. this probably isnt the latest since we had a dyno day here, but here it is:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....bms+test+pipes
i remember this thread, so i did a seach and i found his dyno for the pipes. this probably isnt the latest since we had a dyno day here, but here it is:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....bms+test+pipes
NO OTHER DYNOS??
btw, a resonator does NOT add HP it takes it away.
thanks for you efforts Daytona
bottom line is we ALL buy things withOUT seeing a completely unbiased DYNO, the Plenum is NO exception, so why was the WHOLE thread started????
this quote sounds early similar to what we have been trying to say about the plenum
ORIGINAL QUOTE BY "HFM"-regarding test pipes
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"The only way you're going to get a good impression of the flywheel and test pipes is if you take the car for a spin. Which of course you're more than welcome to do. "
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Last edited by rodH; 12-13-2003 at 02:52 PM.
12-13-2003, 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by rodH
btw, a resonator does NOT add HP it takes it away.
thanks for you efforts Daytona
btw, a resonator does NOT add HP it takes it away.
thanks for you efforts Daytona
on the other not, about the test pipes. it is a yes and no answer.
basically for an NA car to have test pipes alone, it will actually hurt performance until about 3.5-4k because of the backpressure loss. now u may say that backpressure is the enemy, but u DO need some in a NA car; the turbulent air produced by the test pipes will hinder performance at low rpm. now when running >4k rpm, u will see this is where test pipes gain the most. so with "just enough" back pressure from the resonators, you will see gains all thourought the rev range.
Yes test pipes will net much more for a turbo car because of the fact you just need to get the exhaust gases out as fast as you can. thai is why we see exhausts with >3in in diameter, depending if it is a true dual or not.
12-13-2003, 03:18 PM
#92
Originally posted by rodH
quote:
Sorry to point out the oBVIOUS here, BUT IF you TRULY believed that your car would be 100% stock. Do you even see the hypocricy in this statement or you are so set on ripping the Plenum that you do not ever realized what you just wrote.
...
OK, I got back from my search, for some reason I have spent a long time trying to find teh Dynos of an unbiased (non-manuf) Z that has shown a 6.5 hp gain for teh Pop Charger ALONE, and 11 HP for the test pipes ALONE and CAN'T find one. Can you guide me to some? (obviously you don't buy anything til it is DYNO proven by an independent car owner, so this should be as easy request as I would assume you have done all teh homework already and saved the links in your "favorites"
If in fact the pop charger does get 6.5 HP I WANT ONE ASAP, this is the BEST deal on the market if this is the case!!!??
quote:
Sorry to point out the oBVIOUS here, BUT IF you TRULY believed that your car would be 100% stock. Do you even see the hypocricy in this statement or you are so set on ripping the Plenum that you do not ever realized what you just wrote.
...
OK, I got back from my search, for some reason I have spent a long time trying to find teh Dynos of an unbiased (non-manuf) Z that has shown a 6.5 hp gain for teh Pop Charger ALONE, and 11 HP for the test pipes ALONE and CAN'T find one. Can you guide me to some? (obviously you don't buy anything til it is DYNO proven by an independent car owner, so this should be as easy request as I would assume you have done all teh homework already and saved the links in your "favorites"
If in fact the pop charger does get 6.5 HP I WANT ONE ASAP, this is the BEST deal on the market if this is the case!!!??
...
In this thread, you will find me sceptical of the 6.5 hp as well:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ormancemag.com
That links to here with the dyno chart from NissanPerformanceMag.Com who are not affiliated with JWT. It shows 6.5 hp.
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/june03/350pop/
Greg with Mossy also did a dyno that showed 6.5. It's on that notorious 310 or 301 hp thread.
Daytona linked regarding testpipes. The dyno wasn't for a LBMS car, it was done by an independent customer and showed a 11.8 hp gain.
Frankly, there aren't many dynos for the LBMS testpipes with resonators. Testpipes have a serious problem with raspiness that is pretty much fixed with the resonators. Most people will likely pick up highflow cats so we should not expect to see a lot of testpipe dynos floating around.
And, on that subject, I believe I posted somewhere else that I would recommend highflow cats, Random or LBMS unless performance is the ultimate goal in which case I would recommend the LBMS testpipes with resonnator. I don't want to rehash this cause my opinions are documented and can be found by a search.
Daytona, thanks for your comments and posts.
12-13-2003, 04:26 PM
#93
Originally posted by daytona350z
no problem, well, im sure hfm has facts from where he stands. he is not one to spout off his mouth w/o evidence that supports him.
on the other not, about the test pipes. it is a yes and no answer.
basically for an NA car to have test pipes alone, it will actually hurt performance until about 3.5-4k because of the backpressure loss. now u may say that backpressure is the enemy, but u DO need some in a NA car; the turbulent air produced by the test pipes will hinder performance at low rpm. now when running >4k rpm, u will see this is where test pipes gain the most. so with "just enough" back pressure from the resonators, you will see gains all thourought the rev range.
Yes test pipes will net much more for a turbo car because of the fact you just need to get the exhaust gases out as fast as you can. thai is why we see exhausts with >3in in diameter, depending if it is a true dual or not.
no problem, well, im sure hfm has facts from where he stands. he is not one to spout off his mouth w/o evidence that supports him.
on the other not, about the test pipes. it is a yes and no answer.
basically for an NA car to have test pipes alone, it will actually hurt performance until about 3.5-4k because of the backpressure loss. now u may say that backpressure is the enemy, but u DO need some in a NA car; the turbulent air produced by the test pipes will hinder performance at low rpm. now when running >4k rpm, u will see this is where test pipes gain the most. so with "just enough" back pressure from the resonators, you will see gains all thourought the rev range.
Yes test pipes will net much more for a turbo car because of the fact you just need to get the exhaust gases out as fast as you can. thai is why we see exhausts with >3in in diameter, depending if it is a true dual or not.
the Dyno that I saw on test pipes did show about a 1-1.5 HP decrease in very low RPMs, with about a 6-8 HP increase (there have been rumors of a 12 HP increase, but I am not sure how valid that is, I HOPE it is right (see my sig), but will NOT count on it. I also think that there was some debate to whether the 2.25 or the 2.5" test pipes were better, and I think people were saying the 2.5" would result in a bigger decrease at lower RPMs, BUT better for a FI car.
12-13-2003, 04:29 PM
#94
Originally posted by hfm
I know what I wrote. I said I was interested in the plenum. So, like most everything else I buy, I researched it first. That's what my source said. And, that's why I haven't bought it. I'd consider changing my mind if some dynos show gains. In otherwords, it wasn't a rip, it was the opinion of a knowledgable engineer, one whose opinion I happen to respect.
.
I know what I wrote. I said I was interested in the plenum. So, like most everything else I buy, I researched it first. That's what my source said. And, that's why I haven't bought it. I'd consider changing my mind if some dynos show gains. In otherwords, it wasn't a rip, it was the opinion of a knowledgable engineer, one whose opinion I happen to respect.
.
I tend to think that in the near future you will end up with a Crawford Plenum on your car because that is what you are after. It will either be when someone posts a DYNO or you get to drive a car with it.
12-13-2003, 04:29 PM
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Gosh
What in heck is the matter with you people. The one upsmanship here is unbearable. Come on guys give it a rest.
Let's leave it a Mexican Standoff here. If you tried it and like it - Great. If you want more proof that's great, don't buy the damn thing. This is something you can debate, can't imagine why you'd want to anymore. This is something that eather works or doesn't. Saying it works or doesn't, doesn't make it so. So for for gosh sakes quit this petty bickering. There's more important things you could be doing. Isn't there?
Lou
What in heck is the matter with you people. The one upsmanship here is unbearable. Come on guys give it a rest.
Let's leave it a Mexican Standoff here. If you tried it and like it - Great. If you want more proof that's great, don't buy the damn thing. This is something you can debate, can't imagine why you'd want to anymore. This is something that eather works or doesn't. Saying it works or doesn't, doesn't make it so. So for for gosh sakes quit this petty bickering. There's more important things you could be doing. Isn't there?
Lou
12-13-2003, 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by rodH
daytona good points and well said. Just so you don't confuse me with a civic DX Automatic owner with no cats and coffee can exhaust, I do agree, you DO need some back pressure or else your torque takes a big time dive.
the Dyno that I saw on test pipes did show about a 1-1.5 HP decrease in very low RPMs, with about a 6-8 HP increase (there have been rumors of a 12 HP increase, but I am not sure how valid that is, I HOPE it is right (see my sig), but will NOT count on it. I also think that there was some debate to whether the 2.25 or the 2.5" test pipes were better, and I think people were saying the 2.5" would result in a bigger decrease at lower RPMs, BUT better for a FI car.
daytona good points and well said. Just so you don't confuse me with a civic DX Automatic owner with no cats and coffee can exhaust, I do agree, you DO need some back pressure or else your torque takes a big time dive.
the Dyno that I saw on test pipes did show about a 1-1.5 HP decrease in very low RPMs, with about a 6-8 HP increase (there have been rumors of a 12 HP increase, but I am not sure how valid that is, I HOPE it is right (see my sig), but will NOT count on it. I also think that there was some debate to whether the 2.25 or the 2.5" test pipes were better, and I think people were saying the 2.5" would result in a bigger decrease at lower RPMs, BUT better for a FI car.
hehe...yea, i have test pipes, but i am awaiting on installing them. they are manuf. by Mine's japan, i just love JDM stuff, ahh well if i pay more i think mine are 2.5 i think. my exhaust will be loud, no worries on the "fart" sound hehe, not looking foward to the cops tho
12-13-2003, 05:25 PM
#97
Originally posted by daytona350z
yup, hopefully the test pipes wont lose much for me...just wait hehe...yea, i have test pipes, but i am awaiting on installing them. they are manuf. by Mine's japan, i just love JDM stuff, ahh well if i pay more i think mine are 2.5 i think.
my exhaust will be loud, no worries on the "fart" sound hehe, not looking foward to the cops tho
yup, hopefully the test pipes wont lose much for me...just wait
hehe...yea, i have test pipes, but i am awaiting on installing them. they are manuf. by Mine's japan, i just love JDM stuff, ahh well if i pay more i think mine are 2.5 i think. my exhaust will be loud, no worries on the "fart" sound hehe, not looking foward to the cops tho
12-13-2003, 08:35 PM
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Here is a link that shows some indepedent results:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....lenum+and+dyno
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....lenum+and+dyno
12-13-2003, 09:02 PM
#99
Originally posted by rodH
just like Daytona said, I do believe that you are just trying to get the most out of your car.
I tend to think that in the near future you will end up with a Crawford Plenum on your car because that is what you are after. It will either be when someone posts a DYNO or you get to drive a car with it.
just like Daytona said, I do believe that you are just trying to get the most out of your car.
I tend to think that in the near future you will end up with a Crawford Plenum on your car because that is what you are after. It will either be when someone posts a DYNO or you get to drive a car with it.
Lou,
You're a wise man.
zzzzya,
Tell you what, when I'm sobber tomorrow, I'll check out your thread again but right now, it's throwing me for a loop cause I saw a huge 25 hp gain and that can't be right. Actually, this is Technosquare and Crawford right? My first impression is that when you add an ECU, it totally changes things. Why can't we just get a damn baseline and an install dyno? I mean, how hard is that?
12-13-2003, 09:27 PM
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That links to here with the dyno chart from NissanPerformanceMag.Com who are not affiliated with JWT. It shows 6.5 hp.
I believe Ryan from NPM told me that Dyno was done on JWT's Dynopak. Just thought I would clarify, If i'm wrong please let me know. JWT definetly makes good products and I would love to have a set of their cams
As far as the crawford plenum on all the dynos we have done we have shown gains with the crawford plenum. Unfortunately I do not have a dyno chart with the plenum by itself so I know it doesn't help to much. When w did the dyno shootout for SportZ I was able to do some runs with 2 combos. One with crawford and Technosquare ECU, and the other with the Crawford and INJEN intake. I can't post the crawford and injen intake because it will be in the next issue of sport z. But what I will say is with boththose combos we did get over the double digit numbers.
I hope I helped some