Independent Crawford Plenum Review & Dyno
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Sittin' Pretty the the Big D
Just have to throw my $0.02 in ...
HFM,
I am going to compare with Jeff's car at last report on Top 10 Z's (please don't be mad Jeff)
Stats:
rwhp - 266
rwtq - 258
Mods: Intake, Nismo Headers, RT Cats, Nismo exhaust, Nismo Cams, UR pullies, TS ECU flash, Flywheel
My Stats:
rwhp - 280
rwtq - 261 (the highest NA Z TQ out there)
Mods: Intake, Crawford Plenum, Crawford Headers, Crawford cats,Borla Exhaust, JWT Cams
HFM and crew ... please explain to me how Crawfrod's parts do not make the power claimed. PLEASE !!!
I made 14 more rwhp and 3 rwtq more with WAY less mods. When I put the UR pully and JWT flywheel, I will make even more power and be closer to Jeff's mod list. I do not state this as a bash to Jeff (he is awesome for putting his car through this for our benefit) but to merely compare to a car you seem to have ultimate faith in.
You can think of me as part of the "Crawford crew" if you wish because of where I live. I go down there for the club meetings and occasionally to talk about the upcoming parts. I don't hang out there because as Doug learned VERY quickly, I ONLY buy what is in stock NOW ... I don't order and wait. Jason at Performance can verify this as well ... remember Jason, no cams today ? I'll come back later
Think of this post as you may, but my numbers don't lie. I WILL be in Dallas for the big meet. I will gladly dyno for anyone that is willing to help pay for it. Anyone is welcome to look at the car.
HFM, the saying "put up or shut up" comes to mind here .... I have PUT UP ... now will you please SHUT UP. My dynos don't count for you because I am in Nashville and like the product. In my mind with the same thinking, your dynos don't count because you are in CA and don't like the product. You don't like it, don't buy it. I like the product and it has helped make the #2 NA car out there (for now). Can you argue with that fact ?
I am going to compare with Jeff's car at last report on Top 10 Z's (please don't be mad Jeff)
Stats:
rwhp - 266
rwtq - 258
Mods: Intake, Nismo Headers, RT Cats, Nismo exhaust, Nismo Cams, UR pullies, TS ECU flash, Flywheel
My Stats:
rwhp - 280
rwtq - 261 (the highest NA Z TQ out there)
Mods: Intake, Crawford Plenum, Crawford Headers, Crawford cats,Borla Exhaust, JWT Cams
HFM and crew ... please explain to me how Crawfrod's parts do not make the power claimed. PLEASE !!!
I made 14 more rwhp and 3 rwtq more with WAY less mods. When I put the UR pully and JWT flywheel, I will make even more power and be closer to Jeff's mod list. I do not state this as a bash to Jeff (he is awesome for putting his car through this for our benefit) but to merely compare to a car you seem to have ultimate faith in.
You can think of me as part of the "Crawford crew" if you wish because of where I live. I go down there for the club meetings and occasionally to talk about the upcoming parts. I don't hang out there because as Doug learned VERY quickly, I ONLY buy what is in stock NOW ... I don't order and wait. Jason at Performance can verify this as well ... remember Jason, no cams today ? I'll come back later
Think of this post as you may, but my numbers don't lie. I WILL be in Dallas for the big meet. I will gladly dyno for anyone that is willing to help pay for it. Anyone is welcome to look at the car.
HFM, the saying "put up or shut up" comes to mind here .... I have PUT UP ... now will you please SHUT UP. My dynos don't count for you because I am in Nashville and like the product. In my mind with the same thinking, your dynos don't count because you are in CA and don't like the product. You don't like it, don't buy it. I like the product and it has helped make the #2 NA car out there (for now). Can you argue with that fact ?
Last edited by 350trackz; Feb 11, 2004 at 10:54 AM.
Re: Just have to throw my $0.02 in ...
Originally posted by 350trackz
HFM,Can you argue with that fact ?
HFM,Can you argue with that fact ?
1. Dynos vary from one dyno to another.
If you're going to compare your car to someone elses, it would be nice if you did it on the same dyno. Dynos vary from one to another. One dyno can produce 250 where as another may produce 275.
If Jeff had his done on that Mossy Mustang dyno and got 320 hp, that's terrific. But it's meaningless unless you're comparing on the same dyno.
2. Cars vary from one another
No two cars are the same. You may have gotten lucky and had a killer VQ to start with. If the 14 hp was your gain from stock, hey, that's great. But, to compare your car to someone else's car is not the best comparison.
3. Comparing final results is not the best comparision
Proving your stuff adds power is best done by showing the difference between baseline to performance part.
Steve, there have been several posts that I've read that educated me as to what is a good comparision, and what is misleading. I'm sorry to say that your comparision is misleading.
You would be making a better point if you posted your stock and after mod numbers, if you haven't already done so.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Central Jersey
Originally posted by 350trackz
True, my stickers add like 10 i think (2rwhp per sticker right).
I am hoping you were joking 350zDanny !!!
For those not familar ... it is polished !!! WOO HOO
True, my stickers add like 10 i think (2rwhp per sticker right).
I am hoping you were joking 350zDanny !!!
For those not familar ... it is polished !!! WOO HOO
It is a big pain in the *** though.
Dan
Re: Re: Just have to throw my $0.02 in ...
Oh one more thing. Since you brought up the Nashville, LA thing, I hope you don't mind if I post this.
>
>
>The National Transportation Safety Board recently revealed they had for
>the past five years covertly funded a project with US auto makers whereby
>the auto makers installed black boxes in four wheel drive pickup trucks in
>an effort to determine, in fatal accidents, the circumstances in the last
>15 seconds before the crash.
>They were surprised to find in 44 of the 50 states that the last words
>of drivers in 61.2 percent of fatal crashes were, "Oh, ****!"
>Only the states of West Virginia, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana,
>Alabama, Texas, and Tennessee were different, where over 89.3 percent of
>the final words were:
> "Hold my beer and watch this."
>
>
>The National Transportation Safety Board recently revealed they had for
>the past five years covertly funded a project with US auto makers whereby
>the auto makers installed black boxes in four wheel drive pickup trucks in
>an effort to determine, in fatal accidents, the circumstances in the last
>15 seconds before the crash.
>They were surprised to find in 44 of the 50 states that the last words
>of drivers in 61.2 percent of fatal crashes were, "Oh, ****!"
>Only the states of West Virginia, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana,
>Alabama, Texas, and Tennessee were different, where over 89.3 percent of
>the final words were:
> "Hold my beer and watch this."
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 480
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From: Sittin' Pretty the the Big D
Umm ... who is Steve ? Not me. I am Mike, always have been, always will be.
No I did not run a baseline dyno, saw no sense. My butt dyno was sufficient. A group of frinds were dynoing and I said what the heck (I have a Z06 to compete with you know)
As for you statement
"Dynos vary from one dyno to another."
True, your dyno says xrwhp, Doug's says yrwhp ... so how can you say the numbers for the plenum are wrong ?
You are a lawyer, you can argue ... I am a stubborn Redneck, I can argue ... just ask Randy and Doug (I recently was asked to leave Crawford's because I wouldn't shut up).
Setup a dyno in TX then ... neutral ground for all of us (well, I was raised in Dallas but live elsewhere now). Someone can bring their factory plenum and we can pull mine on and off and see what difference it makes.
I don't want to argue any more. You cannot possibly have a legitimate beef against Crawford. If you bought the product and did not get the claimed results, then you would have a complaint. These dynos are legitimate as the same shop that does Doug's does the local Z06 club and others. You were given a plenum for free to test. I would bet that greater numbers would be shown if you were able to run the higher octane (93 that we have hear) as it could take better advantage of the additional air.
Just agree to disagree and lets move on here. You said you made 4rwhp on zxsaints car, it made 9rwhp on Adam's, Doug's and Chris' ... you said this yourself:
"Dynos vary from one dyno to another"
AND
"Cars vary from one another"
Let it die then ... you have CLERALY summed up what DOug has said all along. There will be some highs and lows but the average has been constant.
No I did not run a baseline dyno, saw no sense. My butt dyno was sufficient. A group of frinds were dynoing and I said what the heck (I have a Z06 to compete with you know
)As for you statement
"Dynos vary from one dyno to another."
True, your dyno says xrwhp, Doug's says yrwhp ... so how can you say the numbers for the plenum are wrong ?
You are a lawyer, you can argue ... I am a stubborn Redneck, I can argue ... just ask Randy and Doug (I recently was asked to leave Crawford's because I wouldn't shut up).
Setup a dyno in TX then ... neutral ground for all of us (well, I was raised in Dallas but live elsewhere now). Someone can bring their factory plenum and we can pull mine on and off and see what difference it makes.
I don't want to argue any more. You cannot possibly have a legitimate beef against Crawford. If you bought the product and did not get the claimed results, then you would have a complaint. These dynos are legitimate as the same shop that does Doug's does the local Z06 club and others. You were given a plenum for free to test. I would bet that greater numbers would be shown if you were able to run the higher octane (93 that we have hear) as it could take better advantage of the additional air.
Just agree to disagree and lets move on here. You said you made 4rwhp on zxsaints car, it made 9rwhp on Adam's, Doug's and Chris' ... you said this yourself:
"Dynos vary from one dyno to another"
AND
"Cars vary from one another"
Let it die then ... you have CLERALY summed up what DOug has said all along. There will be some highs and lows but the average has been constant.
Originally posted by 350trackz
Umm ... who is Steve ? Not me. I am Mike, always have been, always will be.
Oop. Brain fart. Sorry Mike.
I am a stubborn Redneck, I can argue ... just ask Randy and Doug (I recently was asked to leave Crawford's because I wouldn't shut up).
Heh, that was funny man!
Honestly, I have a few friends who would call themselves rednecks. All of those friends I've found to be good people.
Setup a dyno in TX then ... neutral ground for all of us (well, I was raised in Dallas but live elsewhere now). Someone can bring their factory plenum and we can pull mine on and off and see what difference it makes.
The only reason I would agree to something like that would be to meet Christi. Cute, but dang it, she's married.
I don't want to argue any more. You cannot possibly have a legitimate beef against Crawford. If you bought the product and did not get the claimed results, then you would have a complaint. These dynos are legitimate as the same shop that does Doug's does the local Z06 club and others. You were given a plenum for free to test. I would bet that greater numbers would be shown if you were able to run the higher octane (93 that we have hear) as it could take better advantage of the additional air.
Just agree to disagree and lets move on here. You said you made 4rwhp on zxsaints car, it made 9rwhp on Adam's, Doug's and Chris' ... you said this yourself:
"Dynos vary from one dyno to another"
AND
"Cars vary from one another"
Let it die then ... you have CLERALY summed up what DOug has said all along. There will be some highs and lows but the average has been constant.
Agree to disagree works for me. I do hope this thread dies soon. But, as long as people post and I feel the need to respond, I will do so. Take it easy bud, and enjoy your sweet ride.
Umm ... who is Steve ? Not me. I am Mike, always have been, always will be.
Oop. Brain fart. Sorry Mike.
I am a stubborn Redneck, I can argue ... just ask Randy and Doug (I recently was asked to leave Crawford's because I wouldn't shut up).
Heh, that was funny man!
Honestly, I have a few friends who would call themselves rednecks. All of those friends I've found to be good people.
Setup a dyno in TX then ... neutral ground for all of us (well, I was raised in Dallas but live elsewhere now). Someone can bring their factory plenum and we can pull mine on and off and see what difference it makes.
The only reason I would agree to something like that would be to meet Christi. Cute, but dang it, she's married.
I don't want to argue any more. You cannot possibly have a legitimate beef against Crawford. If you bought the product and did not get the claimed results, then you would have a complaint. These dynos are legitimate as the same shop that does Doug's does the local Z06 club and others. You were given a plenum for free to test. I would bet that greater numbers would be shown if you were able to run the higher octane (93 that we have hear) as it could take better advantage of the additional air.
Just agree to disagree and lets move on here. You said you made 4rwhp on zxsaints car, it made 9rwhp on Adam's, Doug's and Chris' ... you said this yourself:
"Dynos vary from one dyno to another"
AND
"Cars vary from one another"
Let it die then ... you have CLERALY summed up what DOug has said all along. There will be some highs and lows but the average has been constant.
Agree to disagree works for me. I do hope this thread dies soon. But, as long as people post and I feel the need to respond, I will do so. Take it easy bud, and enjoy your sweet ride.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,703
Likes: 0
From: central ny
Originally posted by 350trackz
True, my stickers add like 10 i think (2rwhp per sticker right).
I am hoping you were joking 350zDanny !!!
For those not familar ... it is polished !!! WOO HOO
True, my stickers add like 10 i think (2rwhp per sticker right).
I am hoping you were joking 350zDanny !!!
For those not familar ... it is polished !!! WOO HOO
Of COURSE he's kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Rowland Heights, CA
Why don't you guys just line up your rides at a friggin track and run each other?!? Maybe then all this bashing will stop.
*So keep R & D'ing them parts, test, make the power, run them and sell em! Then we'll follow suit, buy them, install it and run our cars!
*So keep R & D'ing them parts, test, make the power, run them and sell em! Then we'll follow suit, buy them, install it and run our cars!
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,686
Likes: 0
From: NOR - CAL
I will line up with HFM just name the date, it seems his new campaign is to send me threatening PM's like a Dictator telling me what I can and can't say and how he will "wipe my azz on these forums" if I do not condone to his rules.
It's just a plenum "Dan",
I am not sure how exactly I am going to address your PM and it's threatening tone but just so others know, he is taking this way too seriuosly when he starts sending out completely unsolicted PM's of hate and threats 2 days after I have posted anywhere on the board about any topic, I had let it go till tonight.
Wrong guy "Dan" stick to the Dyno's and DO NOT PM ME ANYMORE, clear?
I will gladly race you, when is the next So. Cal GTG you will be at? I will go and we can settle it in a race, not here.
You are taking this way to far, you wanted me back, well you got me bud. So handle your business, "wipe my *** up on this forum." Or just grow up, either way this is a public request for you to keep your unsolicted, impolite and unwanted messages of hatred and threats out of my PM box.
It's just a plenum "Dan",
I am not sure how exactly I am going to address your PM and it's threatening tone but just so others know, he is taking this way too seriuosly when he starts sending out completely unsolicted PM's of hate and threats 2 days after I have posted anywhere on the board about any topic, I had let it go till tonight.
Wrong guy "Dan" stick to the Dyno's and DO NOT PM ME ANYMORE, clear?
I will gladly race you, when is the next So. Cal GTG you will be at? I will go and we can settle it in a race, not here.
You are taking this way to far, you wanted me back, well you got me bud. So handle your business, "wipe my *** up on this forum." Or just grow up, either way this is a public request for you to keep your unsolicted, impolite and unwanted messages of hatred and threats out of my PM box.
Originally posted by 12SecZ
I will line up with HFM just name the date, it seems his new campaign is to send me threatening PM's like a Dictator telling me what I can and can't say and how he will "wipe my azz on these forums" if I do not condone to his rules.
I was waiting for you to post so that we could settle this up.
I sent you that "threatening" post that said essentially, that if you attacked me personally again, the next time around I wouldn't defer to the fact that you are a good contributor to the forum and that I would you rip you a new orrifice. By that, it should have been clear I meant in text, not in body.
You, Max, are an internet bully. You post whatever the hell you want. When you reply, you do so under color of authority. You want to bring your up jurisdiction, you can do so. What are you going to do, arrest me for posting something to you? I don't think so. If anything, I do have a civil libel suit against you. It's pretty worthless because the damages are nominal, but yes, I do have a suit for your reckless and libelous statement.
It's just a plenum "Dan",
I am not sure how exactly I am going to address your PM and it's threatening tone but just so others know, he is taking this way too seriuosly when he starts sending out completely unsolicted PM's of hate and threats 2 days after I have posted anywhere on the board about any topic, I had let it go till tonight.
You got that PM Max because frankly, yours was the only hurtful post of the lot. I couldn't careless what all the other jerks posted. Yours was spiteful and hurtful. So, I made it a point to advise you I wouldn't tolorate it. You can bully people around all day long, but some people will stand up to it.
Wrong guy "Dan" stick to the Dyno's and DO NOT PM ME ANYMORE, clear?
Crystal clear Max, I really don't want to have anything to do with you. But, be clear on this. You personally attack me again, and I'll do my best to show how much of a dislikable person you are. That wont be hard as the forum already knows from all the battles with people you've been in on this site.
I will gladly race you, when is the next So. Cal GTG you will be at? I will go and we can settle it in a race, not here.
My god. What is with all these race challenges? This is how you settle things?
You are taking this way to far, you wanted me back, well you got me bud. So handle your business, "wipe my *** up on this forum." Or just grow up, either way this is a public request for you to keep your unsolicted, impolite and unwanted messages of hatred and threats out of my PM box.
I now know whose wife you're talking about. The fact that I would not put on a "My name is Dan" sticker at a meet isn't disrespecting someone's wife. And, if Mr. so and so or Mrs. so and so thinks so, well, what can I say? It's not disrespectful.
You on the other hand, to publicly allege that I was over the forum without posting details was just wrong, Max.
I'll give you credit for this Max. I expected you to post my PM, even though you explained why that's not acceptable above. You wont see another PM from me. But, if you attack me again on these forums, expect a blistering response.
I will line up with HFM just name the date, it seems his new campaign is to send me threatening PM's like a Dictator telling me what I can and can't say and how he will "wipe my azz on these forums" if I do not condone to his rules.
I was waiting for you to post so that we could settle this up.
I sent you that "threatening" post that said essentially, that if you attacked me personally again, the next time around I wouldn't defer to the fact that you are a good contributor to the forum and that I would you rip you a new orrifice. By that, it should have been clear I meant in text, not in body.
You, Max, are an internet bully. You post whatever the hell you want. When you reply, you do so under color of authority. You want to bring your up jurisdiction, you can do so. What are you going to do, arrest me for posting something to you? I don't think so. If anything, I do have a civil libel suit against you. It's pretty worthless because the damages are nominal, but yes, I do have a suit for your reckless and libelous statement.
It's just a plenum "Dan",
I am not sure how exactly I am going to address your PM and it's threatening tone but just so others know, he is taking this way too seriuosly when he starts sending out completely unsolicted PM's of hate and threats 2 days after I have posted anywhere on the board about any topic, I had let it go till tonight.
You got that PM Max because frankly, yours was the only hurtful post of the lot. I couldn't careless what all the other jerks posted. Yours was spiteful and hurtful. So, I made it a point to advise you I wouldn't tolorate it. You can bully people around all day long, but some people will stand up to it.
Wrong guy "Dan" stick to the Dyno's and DO NOT PM ME ANYMORE, clear?
Crystal clear Max, I really don't want to have anything to do with you. But, be clear on this. You personally attack me again, and I'll do my best to show how much of a dislikable person you are. That wont be hard as the forum already knows from all the battles with people you've been in on this site.
I will gladly race you, when is the next So. Cal GTG you will be at? I will go and we can settle it in a race, not here.
My god. What is with all these race challenges? This is how you settle things?
You are taking this way to far, you wanted me back, well you got me bud. So handle your business, "wipe my *** up on this forum." Or just grow up, either way this is a public request for you to keep your unsolicted, impolite and unwanted messages of hatred and threats out of my PM box.
I now know whose wife you're talking about. The fact that I would not put on a "My name is Dan" sticker at a meet isn't disrespecting someone's wife. And, if Mr. so and so or Mrs. so and so thinks so, well, what can I say? It's not disrespectful.
You on the other hand, to publicly allege that I was over the forum without posting details was just wrong, Max.
I'll give you credit for this Max. I expected you to post my PM, even though you explained why that's not acceptable above. You wont see another PM from me. But, if you attack me again on these forums, expect a blistering response.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 370
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From: Fayetteville, AR
UGH! Let this thread die the ugly death it deserves!
There are a few things clear here by now.
#1) HFM has been Anti-Crawford since day one. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out from reading all his silly azzed posts from before he received the plenum. Why anyone would give credence to these dynos & review is beyond me. The title of this thread "Independant Crawford Plenum Review & Dyno" is ludicrous at the very best. You can't possibly rip a product every chance you get, then expect anyone with a half a brain to believe your "review", so quit trying.
#2) If this Dyno & Review were credible, HFM would not have to defend it so vehemently. It would stand on it's own. Look around you. Do you see any other review getting ripped as much or with such incredulousness??
Let it die folks.....send it to the trash where it belongs
There are a few things clear here by now.
#1) HFM has been Anti-Crawford since day one. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out from reading all his silly azzed posts from before he received the plenum. Why anyone would give credence to these dynos & review is beyond me. The title of this thread "Independant Crawford Plenum Review & Dyno" is ludicrous at the very best. You can't possibly rip a product every chance you get, then expect anyone with a half a brain to believe your "review", so quit trying.
#2) If this Dyno & Review were credible, HFM would not have to defend it so vehemently. It would stand on it's own. Look around you. Do you see any other review getting ripped as much or with such incredulousness??
Let it die folks.....send it to the trash where it belongs
Originally posted by KJY9
UGH! Let this thread die the ugly death it deserves!
There are a few things clear here by now.
#1) HFM has been Anti-Crawford since day one.
I am not anti-Crawford. You are pro Crawford and that's fine.
#2) If this Dyno & Review were credible, HFM would not have to defend it so vehemently. It would stand on it's own. Look around you. Do you see any other review getting ripped as much or with such incredulousness??
I'm only posting my comments where necessary. I don't think I have had to post one comment to you about the dyno or the results. That's because, the only thing you bring up are personal attacks.
One other thing. The most recent post wasn't about the plenum as Max pointed up above and you brought up here. It was a response to one of the many personal attacks I've received.
Let it die folks.....send it to the trash where it belongs
It belongs right where it is. If you want the thread to die, stop posting.
UGH! Let this thread die the ugly death it deserves!
There are a few things clear here by now.
#1) HFM has been Anti-Crawford since day one.
I am not anti-Crawford. You are pro Crawford and that's fine.
#2) If this Dyno & Review were credible, HFM would not have to defend it so vehemently. It would stand on it's own. Look around you. Do you see any other review getting ripped as much or with such incredulousness??
I'm only posting my comments where necessary. I don't think I have had to post one comment to you about the dyno or the results. That's because, the only thing you bring up are personal attacks.
One other thing. The most recent post wasn't about the plenum as Max pointed up above and you brought up here. It was a response to one of the many personal attacks I've received.
Let it die folks.....send it to the trash where it belongs
It belongs right where it is. If you want the thread to die, stop posting.
Last edited by hfm; Feb 13, 2004 at 09:32 AM.
Originally posted by 350zdanny
Nobody is posting anything about the results because there is no need. They are posting about your credibility, character, and attitude and that discredits the results. It's politics.
Nobody is posting anything about the results because there is no need. They are posting about your credibility, character, and attitude and that discredits the results. It's politics.
The dyno is just another set of information for the plenum and shouldn't be taken as gospel anymore so than any other results.
As for the attacks on credibility, character and attitude and whether the results are discredited as a result, they stem from the fact that there is a large Crawford fan base. It's the reason why there are no attacks on the Kinetix thread. If someone posted something critical about Kinetix plenum after a fan base is established there, the tester would be swarmed.
You're right, it's politics. The Crawford fans are stepping up to defend the plenum in the only way they can. To attack the tester. It's this kind of thing that will prevent people from undertaking testing. Who would want to go through a barage of insults for posting results? As more and more of this happens, there will be less and less useful information posted.