Might be a good idea to post a poll like this and start a new tread. Maybe need to do a poll for feathering before and after the TSB.

 

Here's my story. My Z was really handling well up to around 2,100 miles. I didn't have any tire feathering or other suspension issues, including any bad understeer. One day, accelerating out of a hard corner, it felt like something in the rear end gave way. After that I got a bad case of rear end hop on heavy acceleration; it was sloppy in corners, and the dreaded front tire feather (inside tread) began to appear.

I took it in for a check this morning and had a good chat with Scott, the alignment expert. He's been working on Nissan suspensions for years and was very familiar with the 350 issues some folks have been reporting. When I told him all the symptoms, he said he had a pretty good idea what the problem was. He's done one other 350 handling fix before mine.

When he first looked at the alignment, the left rear was out (Photo 1 below). When he brought the left rear into alignment, the right rear went out (Photo 2 below). Shifting the right rear into alignment, the left rear went back out. Basically, the wheels in the rear were shifting back and forth. He tightened all the cradle bolts in the rear, and then brought both rear wheels into specs. The right front alignment was also pretty far out to make matters worse. He wasn't happy with the difference between the caster on the front, but since it's not adjustable, he said about the only thing you can do is put the car on a jig and bend it a little. He said they had to do that once on a Maxima because it was so far out.

We took it out for a test drive -- me driving, and it handled beautifully again. I'll keep and eye on the front tire wear, but we may have caught it before the feathering reached a point of no return.

Photo 1: Left rear originally out.


Photo 2: Right rear out when left rear in spec.


Photo 3: My guy Scott doing his thing.


The numbers...

 

I have 2000 miles om my new Michelin A/Ss, so I will have my dealer check out my wear pattern, if its started. If the news is not good, I'm taking it to the tire installer Tire Rack recommended to me when I bought the tires from them. He has a brand new Hunter alignment machine and I could get 2 before and afters. I am not convinced Nissan's settings are correct at the moment. We'll see, if I can get in for both.

 

Is the tire wear that is being described causing any problems other than frequent replacement of the tires (cash outflow, ugh). My NSX would chew up the rear tires every 4K miles, front tires every 7-8K miles. JMS in TX

 

Vance, that would be great. Please keep us informed. By any chance have you had an alignment performed? If so could you post the before / after numbers.

Now this would be great if you had an alignment done with stock suspension. Then had an alignment performed after Eibach installation. We'd then be able to see the impact of lowered suspension on the alignment.

Anyone else out there have this info?

 

Everything is relative. "Frequent" replacement of tires would be better said as "premature" tire replacement. No one with this "wear" problem has changed tires because they wore out before "normal" treadwear necessitated replacement. Those who have changed have done so because of the growling or roaring noise that is caused by the uneven tread wear. I am surprised at myself for having over 12,500 miles on my front tires with the wear (and noise), and rotation, yet my rear tires are wearing out the tread faster than the fronts.

 

I had my front tires swapped yesterday and also got to look at the inside feathering closeup. It was very obvious.

After the swap, the tires are now quiet again. I will keep an eye/ear out for any signs of feathering.

YourMomma,

Here is my alignment from Monday:

Front:

Caster
L = 9.2 R = 8.7
spec = 8.92 to 7.58

Camber
L = -1.3 R = -1.5
spec = .17 to -1.33

Toe
L = 0 R = 0

Rear:

Camber
L = -1.7 R = -1.9
spec = -1.08 to -2.08

Toe
L = .10 R = .05


Sorry, I didn't get the alignment done before, but right after Eibach installation, the rear cambers were at -2.3 and -2.5. -1.7 and -1.9 is the best the dealer can do to keep Toe within spec.

The Eibachs really did a number on the fronts. Front cambers are way out of spec. Although, from other member's alignments, my front cambers might have been at -.7 or -.8 to begin with. I will be looking into front camber kits.

Vance

 

Edit: I will get an alignment done an post before/after specs. Also will be opening a case with NNA. Any other course of action I should take?

 

My Service Writer of 20 yrs has resigned from my dealership. His timing couldn't be worse for my Z sanity. I wish him well and hope he's OK in whatever he does..

I checked with another writer and asked him if there was a copy of my alignment I had done when I replaced the OE 040s at 1600 miles. He checked and they did a 4 wheel alignment and all FOUR(4)! wheels were out of acceptable range and they rechecked everything afterward and everything was in range. I asked for a copy and he said, Sure, it'll be in my cubicle whenever you stop by. I asked for a recheck on wear patterns when I could get by this week. They will recheck my wear on my new Michelins, which now have close to 2400 miles on them.

I will post my findings as soon as I get them. I told Tere earlier my car felt great, so I may really have caught the wear pattern before really bad things happened. New tires, new good 4 wheel alignment job may have averted the disasters many of us are going through now. If only a 2 wheel alignment had been done when I changed tires, I think I would be in as much trouble as many others. The need to do a 4 wheel alignment on a car with independent a-arms should be a no-brainer, but its not my job to think to do it. Its the job of each Nissan dealer's personnel who sell and service our Zs.

The new, to me, service writer at my dealership told me my alignment should be rock solid with the before and after settings he was looking at. I certainly hope so. I have no reason to doubt him, given the good service I have received over the yrs there. He did say my before settings were "WAAAYYY OUT THERE", so I can only imagine what others' cars settings were at delivery.

Boomer

 

I had build #877 one of the very first to arrive, and my alignment specs were within NIssan specifications, guess what.. still feathering 10k miles later. and NIssan hasn't done a dam thing

 

What would happen if the alignment/toe-in is left untreated, I mean other than tirewear. Although they are replacing all 4 tires for free, my dealer told me my back tires are on backorder. I have had this problem since 3k miles.

 

This concerns me. I don't know how much wear there may be on mechanical parts in the suspension if left untreated for.. 10-15,000 miles. Tere and I can say whoopee because we seem to have caught ours early. Others who have piled on the miles may need a control arm replacement(example only) or something else not easily diagnosed. I still say you have to start with the alignment, Tere's alignment man said one car had to be "adjusted" on a jig. I think a jig is some sort of frame straightener, just guessing.

With the previous post to this one in mind, I would bite the bullet and find an alignment specialist and pay him out of my own pocket for a diagnosis/fix and hope it works. Report your action to NNA and keep an eye on your tire wear. Also, do you have access to other Nissan dealers as an alternative to your own dealer's alignment tech? All alignment techs are not alike, some are much better than others. NNA might help you find another dealership to look at your tires. Exhaust all your freebies, but if they don't work, find an expert and pay. Moral indignation is one thing, look how far its gotten me.

I may have done the right thing simply because I shelled out $1K for new tires, discovered the wear, had a 4 wheel alignment at 1600 miles before any other suspension wear could occur. Yes, I have been morally indignant, but it may just be happenstance if my alignment and my $1K cures my ills.

Moral indignation will only get you so far, then come back to earth and pay for a fix if you have to, I was ready to go straight to the Hunter man in OKC to my fix with $75 in my pocket for an all wheel alignment.

Just think about it in those terms and see what you need to do. Would you bail out like the guy who traded for an S2000 and lost several $1000s because of it? I'd pay the $75 or $575 if it fixed it and I was faced with his loss. How about you?

Boomer--use it or lose it, I don't care.

 

Inside/outside or across the tread? Too much Camber, or useless shocks w/o rebound control? Given the Z's suspension design, I would have guessed that the rear tires would wear out first, but on the inside edges. Like the NSX, 911, MR2, any rear engine car with lots of negative/positive(can't keep them straight) camber, ie. the top leans in, so the inside shoulder wears fastest.

If its across the tread, the 040s only have a wear rating of 140(UTOG) and they shouldn't be good for many more than the fronts have now. If you get to 15000 miles on the rears, I think thats all you can expect, IMHO. Then you can get some good tires all the way round, align your car and drive happily ever after. I remember you said 15,000 miles on the OE tires would be all right, you're almost there, rejoice! Boomer

 

Boomer, the rears are wearing out very evenly across the tread. I have no complaints with the wear pattern on the rears at all, and am happy with my rear suspension characteristics.

 

That is good to hear, have you decided what new tires you will get next? I've always been partial to Michelins, but they are always the most expensive, in my experience. Still, the Z deserves the best when you have to change.

I know you have the feathering on the fronts, did you ever have a 4 wheel alignment? Or just the side to side swap? I am interested in what you think about alignment as a possible start for the feathering and whether you think cars with more miles have another reason for their wear?

 

Wow....Glad to know I'm not the only one with a tire feathering or cupping problem as I call it.
Around 4000 miles or so I noticed the roaring noise which has increased in intensity up to the 6300 hundred miles which the car now has.
I took the car to the dealer,was told it was in alignment,but couldn't help me with tires....talked to bridgestone.....same result,
called Nissan,they graciously offered 1 tire.Glad I read here where several of you folks have gotten a pair of frt tires.Seems this is a growing problem with many other owners of these cars,

My question .....has there been a change in toe in/toe out,caster/camber etc from Nissan on these cars?........

 

I too am partial to Michelins, and both of my other cars have Michelins on them. But until Nissan has a final fix on this wear problem, I am considering opting for cheaper tires as an expedient for the (hopefully) short term, knowing that there is a better than 50-50 chance the undesirable wear will return. I am considering the Toyo Proxes T1S - less expensive than the Pilot Sports and are very light tires to boot. We shall see what happens and/or how far the OEM RE040s last.

At 11,400 miles, I had a 4 wheel alignment and side to side tire swap. To no one's surprise, it did not cure the problem with noise, and in fact, the steering wheel vibration is a bit more pronounced now. I called the dealer back after another 350 miles, and they are in the (slow) process of getting new front tires approved by NNA for my car. The "revised" alignment sounds good as far as a start for a cure, but there is the consideration of what the new toe spec does for the overall alignment and handling of the car. I am curious (as you all are) about what ezchief's results show.

 

Yep, that's pretty much it on the jig... I'd like to clarify -- the car they put on the jig to bring caster back into specs was a Maxima, NOT a Z.

From some of the stuff I've seen, I looks to me like some of the aftermarket coilovers that lower the car are throwing caster way out. I'd think that would be a significant handling detriment.

 

Heh. I just met Steven Lam! He was helping a buddy buy my '96 Miata. Seemed like a nice guy. In chatting with him, it's obvious that while he's very interested in helping people out he doesn't have too much pull with Nissan, being relatively new at the company, so I'd say go easy on the guy...

-- Mark

 

If you're right, Tere, allI can say is I was on the money to not want to lower my car. Its already down to 4.7"s AND I have the aero option. I met with "Jim" at my dealer today and got my before and after settings and feel a little uncomfortable about my caster and camber in the front, (given Tere's comments about the coilovers) they seem to be too close to the top/bottom of the spec range. I don't know enough to judge, but Jim didn't seem bothered by it. I will be putting my settings on Tere's database thread tomorrow, today was a long day. Maybe Tere and others can jump in and analyze my settings as a teaching tool for me and others, if they have the time.

I have no discernable wear at all on my Michelin A/Ss, front or rear at 2200 miles. I plan to do a check every 2000 miles as a baseline. Others may want to do something similar at a mileage of their choosing, mine are kinda obsessive, 3 or 4000 miles might be easier. I asked Jim about tire longevity given the UTOG rating of 400 and said I would be OK with 25,000 miles out of the rears since the camber setting is pretty aggressive and he agreed. He says he has a 79 Porsche with aggressive settings, but the tread wear is always in the middle of the tires, instead of the inside shoulder. Weird. anyhoo, I will post over at 350frenzy ifyou're interested. Boomer