Tire FEATHERING: FYI
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Re: More Thoughts on Wear
Originally posted by Deb
From Deb's Other Half:
Hey, this is probably a rehash but I've never been one to believe that this type of hard-to-define problem has just one cause or cure. Doing some more research, I found the following commentary at a website interesting:
"Some low profile tires (mostly performance tires), tend to develop uneven wear patterns because of their belt and tread design. As the tire rolls along, the deflection and squirming of the tread produces harmonics that cause certain areas of the tread or ribs to wear more than others. The wear pattern can be further compounded by other factors such as toe misalignment, wheel imbalance, wheel runout, underinflation or lack of rotation. After awhile, a "heel and toe" or "washboard" wear pattern may develop that generates annoying noise and vibrations at speeds above 40 mph. Once the wear pattern is established, it's too late to reverse it by rotating the tires. So the only cure you can recommend is to replace the tires and possibly switch to another brand or style that is less "quirky." "
There were also comments about tires whose sidewalls were not uniformly flexible (stiff spots) and caused bounce, sometimes noticeable and sometimes not.
Additional comment about caster from that same site - "Caster can have an effect here, too. Caster causes the wheels to lean or tilt when steered, which changes camber (called "camber roll"). A lot of caster may therefore cause an increase in shoulder wear. This type of condition is common on vehicles like Mercedes and BMW that have high caster settings."
In addition, many sites I have found talk about heel-toe wear on the outside edge of a tire as being primarily a result of hard cornering and scuffing rather than just alignment - this is very common on motorcycle front tires (yes, I ride). As I read about drivers with wear problems, I hear "feathering", "heel-toe" and I'm not sure if everyone is speaking the same language. I'm wondering if we have a problem that is unique to our Z because of a combination of "quirky" tires, bad alignment caused during shipping, poor factory specs for toe that have changed, large caster (like Mercedes and BMW - two cars known for handling), hard driving, etc.
If you have "feathering", try and let everyone know if it is from inside to outside our vice versa. Feathering is usually found across the entire tread (side to side) and indicates if the toe problem is in or out. If you have heel-toe (runs with the tread), is it on the inside or outside.
Or, as most will probably do, ignore this rant and continue looking for the cause/cure. By the way, is there anyone out there who has changed tire brands and solved their heel-toe shoulder wear problem??
Now with 2000 miles, I seem to be noticing a little bit of heel-toe wear on the outside tread row - and the wife tends to corner her car hard (race driver wannabe!). There is no feathering to be felt either inside to outside or outside to inside.
I'm done. In case your wondering, try -http://www.babcox.com/editorial/tr/tr129622.htm
DOH
VIN 111637
Toe= .05 degrees on both tires (.10 degrees total toe)
Camber= -1 (left), .05 (right) cross camber - this is concerning since the right tire is out of spec - I'm watcing it.
Caster= 8.5 left and 8.2 right
From Deb's Other Half:
Hey, this is probably a rehash but I've never been one to believe that this type of hard-to-define problem has just one cause or cure. Doing some more research, I found the following commentary at a website interesting:
"Some low profile tires (mostly performance tires), tend to develop uneven wear patterns because of their belt and tread design. As the tire rolls along, the deflection and squirming of the tread produces harmonics that cause certain areas of the tread or ribs to wear more than others. The wear pattern can be further compounded by other factors such as toe misalignment, wheel imbalance, wheel runout, underinflation or lack of rotation. After awhile, a "heel and toe" or "washboard" wear pattern may develop that generates annoying noise and vibrations at speeds above 40 mph. Once the wear pattern is established, it's too late to reverse it by rotating the tires. So the only cure you can recommend is to replace the tires and possibly switch to another brand or style that is less "quirky." "
There were also comments about tires whose sidewalls were not uniformly flexible (stiff spots) and caused bounce, sometimes noticeable and sometimes not.
Additional comment about caster from that same site - "Caster can have an effect here, too. Caster causes the wheels to lean or tilt when steered, which changes camber (called "camber roll"). A lot of caster may therefore cause an increase in shoulder wear. This type of condition is common on vehicles like Mercedes and BMW that have high caster settings."
In addition, many sites I have found talk about heel-toe wear on the outside edge of a tire as being primarily a result of hard cornering and scuffing rather than just alignment - this is very common on motorcycle front tires (yes, I ride). As I read about drivers with wear problems, I hear "feathering", "heel-toe" and I'm not sure if everyone is speaking the same language. I'm wondering if we have a problem that is unique to our Z because of a combination of "quirky" tires, bad alignment caused during shipping, poor factory specs for toe that have changed, large caster (like Mercedes and BMW - two cars known for handling), hard driving, etc.
If you have "feathering", try and let everyone know if it is from inside to outside our vice versa. Feathering is usually found across the entire tread (side to side) and indicates if the toe problem is in or out. If you have heel-toe (runs with the tread), is it on the inside or outside.
Or, as most will probably do, ignore this rant and continue looking for the cause/cure. By the way, is there anyone out there who has changed tire brands and solved their heel-toe shoulder wear problem??
Now with 2000 miles, I seem to be noticing a little bit of heel-toe wear on the outside tread row - and the wife tends to corner her car hard (race driver wannabe!). There is no feathering to be felt either inside to outside or outside to inside.
I'm done. In case your wondering, try -http://www.babcox.com/editorial/tr/tr129622.htm
DOH
VIN 111637
Toe= .05 degrees on both tires (.10 degrees total toe)
Camber= -1 (left), .05 (right) cross camber - this is concerning since the right tire is out of spec - I'm watcing it.
Caster= 8.5 left and 8.2 right
I got rid of the despised 040s at 1600 miles and replaced them w/Pilot Sport A/Ss, after 2000 miles I thought I saw some shading on one tires inside shoulder, but I think I'm just gun shy now. I had an alignment at the same time, apparently incorrect settings if ezchief, the dealer and Hunter are right. I would put my money on Hunter any time. I'm taking mine in on Monday and have them check it, I need to for Tere's database over at 350frenZy. She is trying to put as much data together as possible to ascertain if patterns appear. We can do some real research instead of just guessing. ezchief's data is valuable, but it is a case study, we need numbers, lots, to id problem areas for all of us, as large a sample as we can get. Check w/Tere and input your data to her, please. We can lick this thing.
Last edited by Boomer; Apr 25, 2003 at 04:36 PM.
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Update: Since the TSB repair by streaking has been reduced 90% but not completely eliminated. After opening and closing the window over a period of several weeks, I can now see a faint streak again. MUCH better than before, but still not completely fixed. This is simply a design flaw.
Thread Starter
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From: frisco, tx
Re: Re: interesting info
Originally posted by ezchief
A member here brought his concerns personally that the shorter wheel base on the Z compared to the G35 could be the culprit.
If he wants to, this could be a good time to elaborate.
A member here brought his concerns personally that the shorter wheel base on the Z compared to the G35 could be the culprit.
If he wants to, this could be a good time to elaborate.
Here's my theory. I'm no engineer, not even close, but I spend a lot of time just thinking about **** like this. This will be a free-flowing thought, so bear with me...
Nissan obviously designed the Z and G35C in tandem. Both cars probably utilize the EXACT SAME suspension components save for different spring rates and shock valving. What is significantly different is the wheel base. 104.4" for the Z vs. 112.2" for the G35C (the tenths of an inch are from memory and may be off). BOTH cars utilize the new FM platform which places a significant amount of the engine weight behind the front axle.
Imagine a six-foot length of rope, anchored on both ends with a five-pound weight suspended at the center. It sags a bit, right? Now imagine a ten-foot length of rope, anchored at the ends with that same five-pound weight at the center. It sags even more and the force, or pull at the ends is significantly higher. The Z is the six-foot rope.
Because there is less distance between the axles there is less sag in the unibody frame and the majority of weight pushing down is at the center of the vehicle instead of "pulling on the ends" as in the rope example and leveraging force on the corners. What this means IMO is that the front corners of the Z are not realizing their fair share of the vehicle's weight and as you travel down the road the tires are actually leaving the ground in very minute distances and SLAMMING back down into the pavement causing a newly aligned car to exhibit cupping on the tread blocks. The feathering/scalloping/really nasty **** was fixed on my car. What did re-appear was CUPPING in the center of the tread blocks. Look up CUPPING and you'll find that the number one culprit of cupping is a WEAK SHOCK.
So now we're back to the faulty shocks and springs issue. This is a World-Class f*ck up on Nissan's part IMO. Not simply because it is happening, but because they KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN. Why else do you think the Z came with the RE040s instead of Pilot Sports? Do you know how cheap it is to equip a new car with the 040s? Would you put more expensive Pilots on a car knowing goddamned well you might be replacing a few hundred or thousand pairs? How many Pilots has Nissan replaced on the G35C? Probably none because they got the suspension RIGHT on that car.
OK, there it is. Flame the **** out of me if I'm completely off base. I don't really care anymore because of the time I've spent behind the wheel at the track. I'm completely in love with my Z on the track and just don't give a **** about Bose, or window grease or even feathering. Don't let ANYONE tell you that aggressive driving around town is going to feather your tires. I drove the **** out of my car and wore down the outside edges of both fronts very evenly with ZERO feathering as a result. As soon as I can dial out the understeer with the S-Tune kit, that push and wear shouldn't be half as bad.
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From: Pasadena, CA
So now we're back to the faulty shocks and springs issue. This is a World-Class f*ck up on Nissan's part IMO. Not simply because it is happening, but because they KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN. Why else do you think the Z came with the RE040s instead of Pilot Sports? Do you know how cheap it is to equip a new car with the 040s? Would you put more expensive Pilots on a car knowing goddamned well you might be replacing a few hundred or thousand pairs?
-- Mark
Re: Re: Re: interesting info
Originally posted by droidekaus
WOW! You guys have really taken off with this! OK, Jim, I'll weigh in here.
Here's my theory. I'm no engineer, not even close, but I spend a lot of time just thinking about **** like this. This will be a free-flowing thought, so bear with me...
Nissan obviously designed the Z and G35C in tandem. Both cars probably utilize the EXACT SAME suspension components save for different spring rates and shock valving. What is significantly different is the wheel base. 104.4" for the Z vs. 112.2" for the G35C (the tenths of an inch are from memory and may be off). BOTH cars utilize the new FM platform which places a significant amount of the engine weight behind the front axle.
Imagine a six-foot length of rope, anchored on both ends with a five-pound weight suspended at the center. It sags a bit, right? Now imagine a ten-foot length of rope, anchored at the ends with that same five-pound weight at the center. It sags even more and the force, or pull at the ends is significantly higher. The Z is the six-foot rope.
Because there is less distance between the axles there is less sag in the unibody frame and the majority of weight pushing down is at the center of the vehicle instead of "pulling on the ends" as in the rope example and leveraging force on the corners. What this means IMO is that the front corners of the Z are not realizing their fair share of the vehicle's weight and as you travel down the road the tires are actually leaving the ground in very minute distances and SLAMMING back down into the pavement causing a newly aligned car to exhibit cupping on the tread blocks. The feathering/scalloping/really nasty **** was fixed on my car. What did re-appear was CUPPING in the center of the tread blocks. Look up CUPPING and you'll find that the number one culprit of cupping is a WEAK SHOCK.
So now we're back to the faulty shocks and springs issue. This is a World-Class f*ck up on Nissan's part IMO. Not simply because it is happening, but because they KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN. Why else do you think the Z came with the RE040s instead of Pilot Sports? Do you know how cheap it is to equip a new car with the 040s? Would you put more expensive Pilots on a car knowing goddamned well you might be replacing a few hundred or thousand pairs? How many Pilots has Nissan replaced on the G35C? Probably none because they got the suspension RIGHT on that car.
OK, there it is. Flame the **** out of me if I'm completely off base. I don't really care anymore because of the time I've spent behind the wheel at the track. I'm completely in love with my Z on the track and just don't give a **** about Bose, or window grease or even feathering. Don't let ANYONE tell you that aggressive driving around town is going to feather your tires. I drove the **** out of my car and wore down the outside edges of both fronts very evenly with ZERO feathering as a result. As soon as I can dial out the understeer with the S-Tune kit, that push and wear shouldn't be half as bad.
WOW! You guys have really taken off with this! OK, Jim, I'll weigh in here.
Here's my theory. I'm no engineer, not even close, but I spend a lot of time just thinking about **** like this. This will be a free-flowing thought, so bear with me...
Nissan obviously designed the Z and G35C in tandem. Both cars probably utilize the EXACT SAME suspension components save for different spring rates and shock valving. What is significantly different is the wheel base. 104.4" for the Z vs. 112.2" for the G35C (the tenths of an inch are from memory and may be off). BOTH cars utilize the new FM platform which places a significant amount of the engine weight behind the front axle.
Imagine a six-foot length of rope, anchored on both ends with a five-pound weight suspended at the center. It sags a bit, right? Now imagine a ten-foot length of rope, anchored at the ends with that same five-pound weight at the center. It sags even more and the force, or pull at the ends is significantly higher. The Z is the six-foot rope.
Because there is less distance between the axles there is less sag in the unibody frame and the majority of weight pushing down is at the center of the vehicle instead of "pulling on the ends" as in the rope example and leveraging force on the corners. What this means IMO is that the front corners of the Z are not realizing their fair share of the vehicle's weight and as you travel down the road the tires are actually leaving the ground in very minute distances and SLAMMING back down into the pavement causing a newly aligned car to exhibit cupping on the tread blocks. The feathering/scalloping/really nasty **** was fixed on my car. What did re-appear was CUPPING in the center of the tread blocks. Look up CUPPING and you'll find that the number one culprit of cupping is a WEAK SHOCK.
So now we're back to the faulty shocks and springs issue. This is a World-Class f*ck up on Nissan's part IMO. Not simply because it is happening, but because they KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN. Why else do you think the Z came with the RE040s instead of Pilot Sports? Do you know how cheap it is to equip a new car with the 040s? Would you put more expensive Pilots on a car knowing goddamned well you might be replacing a few hundred or thousand pairs? How many Pilots has Nissan replaced on the G35C? Probably none because they got the suspension RIGHT on that car.
OK, there it is. Flame the **** out of me if I'm completely off base. I don't really care anymore because of the time I've spent behind the wheel at the track. I'm completely in love with my Z on the track and just don't give a **** about Bose, or window grease or even feathering. Don't let ANYONE tell you that aggressive driving around town is going to feather your tires. I drove the **** out of my car and wore down the outside edges of both fronts very evenly with ZERO feathering as a result. As soon as I can dial out the understeer with the S-Tune kit, that push and wear shouldn't be half as bad.
See what you started?
Originally posted by droidekaus
WOW! You guys have really taken off with this!
WOW! You guys have really taken off with this!
Good for your points though...
I'm completely in love with my Z on the track and just don't give a **** about Bose, or window grease or even feathering.
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From: OK
Re: Re: More Thoughts on Wear
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Boomer
[B]Thats a pretty high VIN#, I don't think its correct. Otherwise, your site sounds a lot like we have been experiencing. The 040s, changing chacteristics w/the weather(temps), misalignment from delivery, hard cornering(its a sports car, right?), Nissan just told a happy owner the 040s are no longer available(but replaces w/Pilot Sports), people have been experimenting with tire pressures to try to cure the bounce, the caster and camber issues could be contributing, but who knows?
My wifes Z was built 1-03 and the vin number is 111637 (last six numbers checked and double checked).
I hope nobody thinks I am trying to blame the tire. I'm just intrigued by what seems to be a combination of things. If other cars have the 040's and not the problems, that wouldn't surprise me if they had different caster/camber/toe or springs or wheel base or whatever. It just seems that the Z may have a unique combination of things that are a real ***** when they come together in one car. I still love my wife's Z and would not change it for the world. If I have to buy her new Pilots at 12000 miles then I'll do it. I just hope that by changing or fixing one of the problems that this big problem will become less or just disappear.
Always go forward.
DOH
[B]Thats a pretty high VIN#, I don't think its correct. Otherwise, your site sounds a lot like we have been experiencing. The 040s, changing chacteristics w/the weather(temps), misalignment from delivery, hard cornering(its a sports car, right?), Nissan just told a happy owner the 040s are no longer available(but replaces w/Pilot Sports), people have been experimenting with tire pressures to try to cure the bounce, the caster and camber issues could be contributing, but who knows?
My wifes Z was built 1-03 and the vin number is 111637 (last six numbers checked and double checked).
I hope nobody thinks I am trying to blame the tire. I'm just intrigued by what seems to be a combination of things. If other cars have the 040's and not the problems, that wouldn't surprise me if they had different caster/camber/toe or springs or wheel base or whatever. It just seems that the Z may have a unique combination of things that are a real ***** when they come together in one car. I still love my wife's Z and would not change it for the world. If I have to buy her new Pilots at 12000 miles then I'll do it. I just hope that by changing or fixing one of the problems that this big problem will become less or just disappear.
Always go forward.
DOH
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From: Ca.
Feathering Solution?
Tire feathering…..
The complaint in the TSB is “A roaring (growl) noise while braking at low to moderate speeds?” This happens at high speed too, but we don’t hear it over wind noise and the frequency signature is less notable.
Ok,
I think I see what is “really” happening here.
First, the evidence. Modern automobiles have rubber suspension bushings so that we don’t feel every pebble in the road as we drive, and to offer “compliance” to the suspension to allow it to move fore and aft to give the wheel and tire a extra fraction of a second to “follow” the bumps in the road surface.
I’ve seen some “testing” of the suspension on this thread (hunter?) and it shows that when the suspension is “loaded” (driving, BRAKING) the front wheels “toe out” quite a bit according to the info presented.
I conclude the “roaring” and the “feathering” comes primarily from/while BRAKING! Why? A few things happen to the suspension (which control the tires contact patch) when the brakes are applied.
1st-Weight transfer to the front wheels which causes “camber gain”, (this happens to every car with double wishbone suspension) which loads the inside edge of the front tires as the wheels and tires move “up” into the wheel well whether in a corner or braking.
2nd-Braking loads force the wheels rearward, causing “toe out”. (see hunter testing)
3rd – I think the factory has built in a little toe out in bump. (Bump is the wheel moving up unto the wheel well)
IMO, these are the actions that are contributing to the tire/noise issue.
Not that this would be practical or possible, but I honestly believe that if the car could be driven say, 10,000 miles without touching the brakes, the tires would have no feathering.
The cure? I think I would look at the possibility of reducing toe out on bump, and/or the toe out in the rearward deflection of the front suspension.
Scott
The complaint in the TSB is “A roaring (growl) noise while braking at low to moderate speeds?” This happens at high speed too, but we don’t hear it over wind noise and the frequency signature is less notable.
Ok,
I think I see what is “really” happening here.
First, the evidence. Modern automobiles have rubber suspension bushings so that we don’t feel every pebble in the road as we drive, and to offer “compliance” to the suspension to allow it to move fore and aft to give the wheel and tire a extra fraction of a second to “follow” the bumps in the road surface.
I’ve seen some “testing” of the suspension on this thread (hunter?) and it shows that when the suspension is “loaded” (driving, BRAKING) the front wheels “toe out” quite a bit according to the info presented.
I conclude the “roaring” and the “feathering” comes primarily from/while BRAKING! Why? A few things happen to the suspension (which control the tires contact patch) when the brakes are applied.
1st-Weight transfer to the front wheels which causes “camber gain”, (this happens to every car with double wishbone suspension) which loads the inside edge of the front tires as the wheels and tires move “up” into the wheel well whether in a corner or braking.
2nd-Braking loads force the wheels rearward, causing “toe out”. (see hunter testing)
3rd – I think the factory has built in a little toe out in bump. (Bump is the wheel moving up unto the wheel well)
IMO, these are the actions that are contributing to the tire/noise issue.
Not that this would be practical or possible, but I honestly believe that if the car could be driven say, 10,000 miles without touching the brakes, the tires would have no feathering.
The cure? I think I would look at the possibility of reducing toe out on bump, and/or the toe out in the rearward deflection of the front suspension.
Scott
Last edited by professor; Apr 26, 2003 at 09:20 AM.
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From: San Antonio, TX
Re: Feathering Solution?
Originally posted by professor
Tire feathering...
Not that this would be practical or possible, but I honestly believe that if the car could be driven say, 10,000 miles without touching the brakes, the tires would have no feathering.
Tire feathering...
Not that this would be practical or possible, but I honestly believe that if the car could be driven say, 10,000 miles without touching the brakes, the tires would have no feathering.
I hardly ever use my brakes except for a light tap here or there. LOL... I learned how to drive on a '46 ****** Jeep that only had brakes sometimes, so you had to downshift all the time to slow down. Forty plus years later and I still use downshift over brakes. Wondering if maybe my ingrained habits saved my tires???
At least I don't get much in the way of brake dust!
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From: Alabama
Re: Re: Re: More Thoughts on Wear
Originally posted by Deb
My wifes Z was built 1-03 and the vin number is 111637 (last six numbers checked and double checked).
I hope nobody thinks I am trying to blame the tire. I'm just intrigued by what seems to be a combination of things. If other cars have the 040's and not the problems, that wouldn't surprise me if they had different caster/camber/toe or springs or wheel base or whatever. It just seems that the Z may have a unique combination of things that are a real ***** when they come together in one car. I still love my wife's Z and would not change it for the world. If I have to buy her new Pilots at 12000 miles then I'll do it. I just hope that by changing or fixing one of the problems that this big problem will become less or just disappear.
Always go forward.
DOH
My wifes Z was built 1-03 and the vin number is 111637 (last six numbers checked and double checked).
I hope nobody thinks I am trying to blame the tire. I'm just intrigued by what seems to be a combination of things. If other cars have the 040's and not the problems, that wouldn't surprise me if they had different caster/camber/toe or springs or wheel base or whatever. It just seems that the Z may have a unique combination of things that are a real ***** when they come together in one car. I still love my wife's Z and would not change it for the world. If I have to buy her new Pilots at 12000 miles then I'll do it. I just hope that by changing or fixing one of the problems that this big problem will become less or just disappear.
Always go forward.
DOH
Well, I've replaced the tires with the Michelin Pilot Sports and now I can drive on the interstate at 70 comfortably listening to the radio at a volume level of 5. Before it would have to be 16. LOL
Enforcer
Re: Re: Re: Re: More Thoughts on Wear
Originally posted by Enforcer
I agree with you. It is an interesting integration issue. Some say tires, some say springs/shocks, some say suspension, some say damage from the carriers, some say tire pressure, some say toe, some say camber and toe, some say castor, and some say brakes. I think it's a complex combination of many factors and because it was obviously not predicted, it is an indication of an second or third order integration issue.
Well, I've replaced the tires with the Michelin Pilot Sports and now I can drive on the interstate at 70 comfortably listening to the radio at a volume level of 5. Before it would have to be 16. LOL
Enforcer
I agree with you. It is an interesting integration issue. Some say tires, some say springs/shocks, some say suspension, some say damage from the carriers, some say tire pressure, some say toe, some say camber and toe, some say castor, and some say brakes. I think it's a complex combination of many factors and because it was obviously not predicted, it is an indication of an second or third order integration issue.
Well, I've replaced the tires with the Michelin Pilot Sports and now I can drive on the interstate at 70 comfortably listening to the radio at a volume level of 5. Before it would have to be 16. LOL
Enforcer
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From: Alabama
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Thoughts on Wear
Originally posted by rodH
how many miles since you changed tires?? are you saying hte new tires seemed to cure your problems?? I have different tires as well, but hardly have any miles on it, but I am watching for it.
how many miles since you changed tires?? are you saying hte new tires seemed to cure your problems?? I have different tires as well, but hardly have any miles on it, but I am watching for it.
I changed them because I wanted Michelins, wanted to do a test, and was growing weary of the damn noise. No, it didn't cure the real problem, but in addition to the radio, I can hear the engine and exhaust notes again. Like getting my Z all over again. LOL the noise was truly incredible. Amazing to me how slowly it progresses and how much you get used to. In hind sight, probably should have taken noise measurements.I drive 40 miles every day so it won't be long to see what happens. In about two weeks or so I should know if changing the tires was enough to change this abnormal tire wear issue.
I don't expect it to cure it, just change it. What I am hoping is that it will take significantly longer. We will see.
Until then...well I've got my beloved Z back!
Enforcer
Joined: Jun 2002
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Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting info
Originally posted by rodH
I am not sure I agree with the 040 theory (after all, doesnt the new RX8 and old S4 come with them??). If nissan knew that they were as bad as they are turning out to be, there is NO way they would have allowed ALL those Mag tests with these tires (btw, I would LOVE to see #s on how well the car handles on REAL tires). If the tests were negative and bad handling, it literally could have screwed Z sales, a LOT of sales!! I am not sure that risk would have been worth it.
I am not sure I agree with the 040 theory (after all, doesnt the new RX8 and old S4 come with them??). If nissan knew that they were as bad as they are turning out to be, there is NO way they would have allowed ALL those Mag tests with these tires (btw, I would LOVE to see #s on how well the car handles on REAL tires). If the tests were negative and bad handling, it literally could have screwed Z sales, a LOT of sales!! I am not sure that risk would have been worth it.
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From: Charlotte, NC
Changed to Michelin....
Ok, by now you probably know that I got my tires replaced by Nissan. I went through 2 front sets of RE040's. Nissan told me that the Bridgestones are no longer available and replaced ALL 4 tires with Michelin Pilots sports. I have about 450 miles on the Michelins and so far so good - NO FEATHERING!!!! I started to notice that my Bridgestones started to feather after about 1500 miles so I will keep my fingers crossed. So far the tires handle great and are much quieter than the Bridgestones.
Just my 2 cents......
Just my 2 cents......
Re: Changed to Michelin....
Originally posted by silverz
Ok, by now you probably know that I got my tires replaced by Nissan. I went through 2 front sets of RE040's. Nissan told me that the Bridgestones are no longer available and replaced ALL 4 tires with Michelin Pilots sports. I have about 450 miles on the Michelins and so far so good - NO FEATHERING!!!! I started to notice that my Bridgestones started to feather after about 1500 miles so I will keep my fingers crossed. So far the tires handle great and are much quieter than the Bridgestones.
Just my 2 cents......
Ok, by now you probably know that I got my tires replaced by Nissan. I went through 2 front sets of RE040's. Nissan told me that the Bridgestones are no longer available and replaced ALL 4 tires with Michelin Pilots sports. I have about 450 miles on the Michelins and so far so good - NO FEATHERING!!!! I started to notice that my Bridgestones started to feather after about 1500 miles so I will keep my fingers crossed. So far the tires handle great and are much quieter than the Bridgestones.
Just my 2 cents......
If it gets much worse I might pull them off and put the stock wheels/tires on so I don't screw these up.
this is making me very very angry!!
I got a letter a couple days ago (a survey)) asking me about my experience with my case # and if I had everything fixed, etc.....I am going to be typing up a long letter in the next couple days and tell them that when they figure out how to fix my car, I will then fill out the survey.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, Ca
Re: Changed to Michelin....
Originally posted by silverz
Ok, by now you probably know that I got my tires replaced by Nissan. I went through 2 front sets of RE040's. Nissan told me that the Bridgestones are no longer available and replaced ALL 4 tires with Michelin Pilots sports. I have about 450 miles on the Michelins and so far so good - NO FEATHERING!!!! I started to notice that my Bridgestones started to feather after about 1500 miles so I will keep my fingers crossed. So far the tires handle great and are much quieter than the Bridgestones.
Just my 2 cents......
Ok, by now you probably know that I got my tires replaced by Nissan. I went through 2 front sets of RE040's. Nissan told me that the Bridgestones are no longer available and replaced ALL 4 tires with Michelin Pilots sports. I have about 450 miles on the Michelins and so far so good - NO FEATHERING!!!! I started to notice that my Bridgestones started to feather after about 1500 miles so I will keep my fingers crossed. So far the tires handle great and are much quieter than the Bridgestones.
Just my 2 cents......
My dealer just replaced my 2 front tires with REO40'S - had to wait a month for them but the Bridgestones are STILL available. Checked out a new Z on the showroom floor and guess what - Bridgestone REO40'S. So the story changes from one service tech/dealer/Nissan customer service rep to another that you talk to. The ride with the new tires is MUCH better. Less noise -more like with I first took delivery. Now I just have to wait for a few thousand miles so I can take it back in for new tires again
and the beat goes on and on and on
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, Ca
Re: Re: Changed to Michelin....
Originally posted by rodH
dang it!!!!! I just looked at my front L tire (Toyo T1S) and it looks like it is starting to feather too, CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!
If it gets much worse I might pull them off and put the stock wheels/tires on so I don't screw these up.
this is making me very very angry!!
I got a letter a couple days ago (a survey)) asking me about my experience with my case # and if I had everything fixed, etc.....I am going to be typing up a long letter in the next couple days and tell them that when they figure out how to fix my car, I will then fill out the survey.
dang it!!!!! I just looked at my front L tire (Toyo T1S) and it looks like it is starting to feather too, CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!
If it gets much worse I might pull them off and put the stock wheels/tires on so I don't screw these up.
this is making me very very angry!!
I got a letter a couple days ago (a survey)) asking me about my experience with my case # and if I had everything fixed, etc.....I am going to be typing up a long letter in the next couple days and tell them that when they figure out how to fix my car, I will then fill out the survey.
1) I am one unhappy camper.
2) If they don't come up with a permanent fix SOON they are going to buy back vin #674.
MAYBE I'll get a response - am not counting on it because I can't even get the customer service reps to return my calls.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: OK
Re: Re: Changed to Michelin....
Originally posted by rodH
dang it!!!!! I just looked at my front L tire (Toyo T1S) and it looks like it is starting to feather too, CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!
If it gets much worse I might pull them off and put the stock wheels/tires on so I don't screw these up.
this is making me very very angry!!
I got a letter a couple days ago (a survey)) asking me about my experience with my case # and if I had everything fixed, etc.....I am going to be typing up a long letter in the next couple days and tell them that when they figure out how to fix my car, I will then fill out the survey.
dang it!!!!! I just looked at my front L tire (Toyo T1S) and it looks like it is starting to feather too, CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!
If it gets much worse I might pull them off and put the stock wheels/tires on so I don't screw these up.
this is making me very very angry!!
I got a letter a couple days ago (a survey)) asking me about my experience with my case # and if I had everything fixed, etc.....I am going to be typing up a long letter in the next couple days and tell them that when they figure out how to fix my car, I will then fill out the survey.
rodH - just curious about a couple of things:
1. Can you detail the "feathering" on your Toyo's? Is it completely feathered across the tread on all tread blocks, moving from inside to outside or vice versa? Or is it only on the outside treadblock moving from front to back?
2. Did you have your alignment checked and adjusted when you put the Toyo's on? What was your alignment?
Just wanting to check details if you have the time.
DOH
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: Frisco, TX
450 Mile Update
Went in to get an oil change and tires miked on Friday. No wear pattern has surfaced yet. Both Hunter and the SM believe that it will start to show at 1000 to 1500 miles. Like we don't know that.
A few observations from my driving with the new alignment. I drive over a set of rail road tracks every day and before my alignment I would cross over at 50 MPH and I would feel the car get squirrely (sp?) like it was going off in another direction before the wheels corrected. Now, the car slices right through with no problem. Droid had told me of this but I just figured it was normal for these RR tracks. Told the SM about this and this seemed to confirm in his mind and what Hunter thought that it has to be the toe out.
Also, this new set up makes the car ride on rails. It goes where you steer it even more precisely then before.
I will go in on Friday to get the tires miked again and update.
PS- My SM has made a couple calls to NNA about this problem and they haven't a clue on the issue. No fix or idea on what is causing the problem. Looks like Hunter and my SM are ahead of the curve right now. We'll just drive and see.
A few observations from my driving with the new alignment. I drive over a set of rail road tracks every day and before my alignment I would cross over at 50 MPH and I would feel the car get squirrely (sp?) like it was going off in another direction before the wheels corrected. Now, the car slices right through with no problem. Droid had told me of this but I just figured it was normal for these RR tracks. Told the SM about this and this seemed to confirm in his mind and what Hunter thought that it has to be the toe out.
Also, this new set up makes the car ride on rails. It goes where you steer it even more precisely then before.
I will go in on Friday to get the tires miked again and update.
PS- My SM has made a couple calls to NNA about this problem and they haven't a clue on the issue. No fix or idea on what is causing the problem. Looks like Hunter and my SM are ahead of the curve right now. We'll just drive and see.
New Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Re: 450 Mile Update
Originally posted by ezchief
...alignment I would cross over at 50 MPH and I would feel the car get squirrely (sp?) like it was going off in another direction before the wheels corrected. Now, the car slices right through with no problem.... Told the SM about this and this seemed to confirm in his mind and what Hunter thought that it has to be the toe out.
Also, this new set up makes the car ride on rails. It goes where you steer it even more precisely then before.
...alignment I would cross over at 50 MPH and I would feel the car get squirrely (sp?) like it was going off in another direction before the wheels corrected. Now, the car slices right through with no problem.... Told the SM about this and this seemed to confirm in his mind and what Hunter thought that it has to be the toe out.
Also, this new set up makes the car ride on rails. It goes where you steer it even more precisely then before.
The only time I've ever experienced anything like this was on my motorcycle (ZX-6). Leaned into a sweeper at about 45mph and the whole bike actually lost contact, scared the **** out of me. Found out later that this was aggravated by fork springs that were shot.
Just another observation...