The Nissan "company line" as publicly stated in Autoweek and elswhere is that "some" of the cars left the manufacturing plant with incorrect toe settings which the TSB should have addressed, however, since the troubled Americans are not capable of performing a front end alignment we need to send some engineers over to the US to see what they are doing wrong. So if some of the cars left the manufacturing plant with incorrect toe settings then who is it exactly that can't perform a front end alignment?

And how did they know that some of the cars left the plant with incorrect toe settings? Well they must have looked at some coming off the assembly line. But if they have not been able to duplicate the problem in Japan as they claim then how did they know that this had anything to do with the cupping problem? And why is it that only the vehicles destined for America came off the assembly line with incorrect toe settings? Since the problem doesn't exist in Japan, all vehicles there, by definition, must have come off the assembly line with correct toe settings. And those vehicles with incorrect toe settings which were destined for the US, and pulled off the assembly line for alignment testing, magically recieved correct toe settings as soon as they were pulled thus further preventing NIssan Japan from duplicating the problem. In any case, a toe adjustment, was a convenient and very interesting guess considering the prevailing wisdom stipulates that incorrect toe will not result in this kind of wear pattern. The prevailing wisdom also says that too much negative camber will not result in this kind of wear pattern, it will just wear the indside of the tire out before the rest. And everyone, except Dicount Tire, seems to believe that too much caster will not produce any wear pattern at all.

In fact, the prevailing wisdom is that this type of wear pattern would be produced by worn out or incorrectly designed shocks, springs or bushings. You guys are right though. Nissan has been aware of this problem for over a year and has apparently chosen the path of least cost regarding the vehicles already produced. They probably have a whole database of information on how changing the front end alignment changes the cupping. With this much toe you get cupping on every inside tread block. With a little more and you get cupping on every third tread block. Reduce the negative camber and you get cupping on both the inside and outside tread blocks. The common theme being no matter what you get cupping.

These are not stupid people making these cars but they are counting on the fact that we are. You can not tell me that they have been looking into this for over a year and still have no idea what is causing it. I also can't believe that they haven't tried, what is obvious to many of us non-engineer types, different shocks, springs etc. Obviously they have with this supposed Euro spec suspension that they are quietly rolling out. There are many names for the garbage that they spewing. I'll leave it to you to select your nomenclature of choice.

 

Your God*amn right!

When Jamie called me from Nissan Consumer affairs she claimed that Nissan has only now realized that the TSB did not fix the problems. My response to her was you have got to be kidding me.

So Nissan is definetly playing stupid. It all comes down to $$$$.

I work in the semiconductor industry designing new processes that go into our production fabs. You can be damn sure we test all aspects of the process before it goes into production. And when the odd situation comes up where something strange happens after transfer we are ALL over the problem fixing it right away.

Nissan engineers know full well what the problems are and know everything about how the suspension is working. As others have said they are simply playing the waiting game with us for our warranties to expire.

If the suspension has changed on the 2004.5 Z's then that is the fix and they don't want to say so.

 

I believe you are right. A board member tells me the engineers were looking at shocks and even removing them as well as springs to test. Maybe this is why the S-Tune fixes the problem. My problem is the cover up and denial of a problem. NNA needs to admit to the problem then fix it.

 

I prefer "Bullshizzle"

 

I just might have to get rid of my 350Z and buy a WRX STi or Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution ... fact is I LOVE the 350Z, it is a work of art. There may be other cars out that can out perform the 350Z and have a similar price tag (by pumping ungodly amounts of boost through 4 banger engines), but I am completely ennamered with this vehicle. I do not want it to become a love/hate relationship like I had with my '85. I put over $11,000.00 into that car, but at least that car was 13 years old when I bought it! Maybe that is the problem, maybe Nissan spent too much time on aesthetics and not enough time on substance (i.e. suspension, tuning, testing, QA, etc...). So what can I do? I don't know ... You are all right, why would Nissan waste their money (our money) on fixing a problem if they can avoid it? They won't, not unless a lot of people start hearing negative things about the 350Z and sales start slipping. That is the only way there will be a recall, and that is the only way the problem will get fixed. Because it is not a safety issue, they are not worried about getting sued ... so they are passing the buck to us. I guess this is what happens when a company goes bankrupt, get's bought by Renault and starts doing well again. And that my friend, is ********. I will NEVER do business again with a company that has values like this. I am one step away from selling my Z. I would consider getting a 2004.5 Z (supposed euro suspsension fix), but then I have to take the loss financially. Screw that, screw Nissan.

 

I can believe it, I've seen it with my Dodge Cummins turbo diesel truck. They have a problem with lift pumps dying and taking out the injection pump. Dodge and Cummins know it and have modified the lift pump over 15 times with only 2 changes to the part number. Still not fixed. What did they do. On the new 03 Dodge CTD trucks they now have a new injection system. Think they will ever fix the lift pump problem on the 98 - 02 Dodge CTD trucks . It costs a couple of grand for a new injection pump on a CTD. This problem with the tires will be fixed either by Nissan or by the members through the after market. Like I said this problem is nothing compared to what I have seen from Dodge/Cummins. I agree it is a pain in the butt and I gave them 6 months to get it resolved, because you guys have finally got it in the automotive press and Nissan finally sent some engineers out to see the problem for themselves. Lets say I am hopeful. But some of you could also be right and Nissan changes the suspension and corrects the problem on the new Z's and everyone with an old Z has to figure it out on their own. It will be this time next year before I am over 12,000 miles so I am hopeful that I might get a fix under warranty. If you are over 12,000 miles I wish you luck.

 

Anyone who has filed a complaint with NNA should sometime afterwards receive a Consumer Affairs Questionare. At the bottom of the questionare, there is a area for comments on how Nissan could improve their level of service. I just filled mine out and sent it in.

I let them know that I was not satisfied with Nissan's commitment to actually resolving the issue, rather than supplying me with a temporary 'fix'. Everyone who fills one of these out should voice their dissatisfaction (assuming they have any) as well.


Nissan

 

I'll get right on it. Just as soon as I finish laughing about your sig.

 

Nissan received my certified letter Monday at 10 am. They have 10 business days to set up the FINAL repair of my Brickyard Touring AT. Well, it's Thursday and they have yet to call. Nissan has till the close of business next Friday (12/19) to set up an appointment or they automatically defalt on the Lemon Law claim.


I would like them to try and fix the Z one last time - however anything short of a new suspension is not acceptable.

 

I have 8,000 miles on my 350Z and the feathering issue is serious to say the least. My wife and I are planning a 4,000 mile road trip, in our Z, and I feel we could very well experience unsafe tires, on our car, before we get home. It seems to me a front tire blowing out is a unsafe condition. Any of us are placing ourselves in harms way when we drive a car with worn out tires. Nissan is telling us to put the worn out tire on the other side of the car and that will completely ware the tire out and place us in a unsafe situation.

 

Just to add to the safety issue:

Excess noise from roaring tires may drown out noises that could indicate more severe safety problems with the car. It could also impede your senses for emergency vehicles or nearby cars. That's a safety stance that can also be considered.

 

ever drive a diesel truck? they must all be considered unsafe

 

I think we all need to keep up the pressure but not overreact at this point. It is in their best interest to resolve this problem, and I dont think its strictly a money issue, I think they just want to be sure what resolves the problem. For my 04 Z Roadster Nissan (or dealer) has footed the bill for: 4 new Michelin Pilots at $1400, 4 new rims @ Im guessing $1200 plus for damage putting on the new tires, and $4500 for a new top for pinholes ( to be installed this spring). They have long since spent their profit margin for this car. I knew going in there would be problems with a new production; they know its in their best interests to resolve the problems, and for me at least, Ive had no problems getting my issues addressed. Until they say they arent going to fix it, Ill give them the benefit of the doubt. (holding breath waiting for flames )

 

i've had my tires replaced at 12,000 miles and now the new ones are starting to roar again at 16,000 miles. this is crazy; i rather take the hit and trade the thing in for a G35 coupe with a 6-speed.


does anyone know if the G35 coupe has had any problems of this type?????

 

Here are the TSB's for the G35 model (both coupe and sedan)

http://www.nissan-techinfo.com/infin...5.asp?mscssid=

I do see the following common problems

2003 G35 Coupe; Grease Mark Or Streak On Inside Of Door Glass
2003 G35 Coupe; Squeak and Rattle Repair
2003 G35 Coupe; Steering Drift to the Right

But nothing related is listed on WT - WHEEL & TIRE

Did a quick search for 'feathering' on www.g35frenzy.com and it returned no results. I also started a thread in their 'G35/Skyline Coupe" forum:

http://www.g35frenzy.com/forum/showt...s=&threadid=50

very interesting... maybe no one has bitched about it yet!

 

UPDATE
Just got my front tires replaced and a 4 wheel alignment at 12,030 miles. I now remember why I bought this car! Its quiet again, and I can hear the radio with the volume at 7 while cruising at 50 mph. Once again the car feels as if its on rails. I have the alignment sheet. Will post if anyone is interested.

DEALER BS
Harrassed the service writer by asking if he wanted to make a bet about how long before the roar is back. Told him I'd expect to do the same dance in another 4-5000 miles. His response, "Bridgestone changed the tire compound, that's why it took so long for the tires to come in". I smiled and replied, "OK... we'll see."

To his credit I did notice some markings on the tires that I don't have on my rears and never noticed on the front. There is a circle about the size of a dime with "E4" inside it. There is also a mark about the same size "I008". They are below the Bridgestone label.

Does anyone have a idea of what these might be? Does anyone else have these? Possible production run/revision change? They still have a 140 rating.

GENERAL THOUGHTS
I still belive this is a combination issue between toe, camber, and caster. I also belive that the shock/spring combo contributes greatly to the problem.

Besides Boomer and Ezchief, no one commented on my posting about the extreme angles when the wheels are at full lock. Has anyone looked at their car head on when their wheel is at full lock? My original post is here: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....man#post545136
The idea here is similar to a "raked out" chopper. If anyone has taken a ride on a motorcyle with extreme rake they know that you can't turn too far or the tire essentially flops into the turn. Rake on a motorcycle is the same as caster on a car.

Here's a site that explains Ackerman Angle. Its for RC cars but the principles still apply.
http://www.rctek.com/handling/ackerm...principle.html

This one is about Caster
http://www.rctek.com/handling/caster..._advanced.html

The more I read about all the elements of suspension theory the more it seems to me that the front suspension of our car will continue to eat tires with a voracious appetite. Based on what I read at the rctek site I now understand why we have the extreme camber angle during turns. Positive caster creates negative camber (tire leans in). See this link http://www.rctek.com/handling/caster...er_change.html

So here is my diagnosis:
1. By design we have negative camber for better road handling.
2. By design we have positive caster for better stability.
3. A lot of cars came from the factory toed out which increases turn-in.

Negative camber puts the force towards the inside of the tire.
Positive caster creates additional negative camber during a turn.
With a toe-out condition and the ackerman angle either at True or More we are now dragging the inner edge which is already loaded due to camber & caster plus our forward motion. Combine mismatched shocks/springs and we have now introduced camber fluctuation (the wheel will camber in & out).

I'm no longer amazed that our tires are toast @5000 miles. I'm surprised they last that long.

 

For the most recent post ...

"Update, New Dealer BS, & General Thoughts
UPDATE
Just got my front tires replaced and a 4 wheel alignment at 12,030 miles. I now remember why I bought this car! Its quiet again, and I can hear the radio with the volume at 7 while cruising at 50 mph. Once again the car feels as if its on rails. I have the alignment sheet. Will post if anyone is interested."

IF you could post the specs on your alignment sheet, that would be great!

Does anyone know if there is a particular Nissan TSB to address this problem? Can you post a link to it?

Thanks = zzzBaby

 

My car was one of the last 03's built in 5/03 it has the "E4" and the "I008" on both the fronts and the rears. Only have around 2000 miles on the car so no signs of wear at this point.

 

I simply do not understand why Nissan cannot take take several test vehicles and try different variations of camber and caster settings, different springs, shocks, tires, etc...? Seems like they would be able to put a finger on the problem and at least let us know what the problem is even if we have to sport the cost. It bugs me more not knowing the solution to the problem, than whether or not Nissan is going to pay for it. Unfortunately I am not willing use my car as a test car, and I am not a mechanic.

 

Is there anyone with these markings experiencing feathering?