Tire FEATHERING: FYI
Anyone who read my post reagrding my experience today with Nissan please don't get me wrong about this particular dealership's (Westbury Nissan) service center! They treated me very nicely and the service write-up guy even try to change the Nissan's service computer system to see if he can get me NOT to pay the $65.20 fee. However, he cann't because Nissan already has a record of when the car is first purchased, which is over 12 month now (Oct-02). Oh well, at least he tried
Thanks Perry and Danny
, I'll see you guys again when my NEW tranny arrive next week!
PS. They have a very nice, clean, and big facility.
Thanks Perry and Danny
, I'll see you guys again when my NEW tranny arrive next week!PS. They have a very nice, clean, and big facility.
Originally posted by 350z-z33
Anyone who read my post reagrding my experience today with Nissan please don't get me wrong about this particular dealership's (Westbury Nissan) service center! They treated me very nicely and the service write-up guy even try to change the Nissan's service computer system to see if he can get me NOT to pay the $65.20 fee. However, he cann't because Nissan already has a record of when the car is first purchased, which is over 12 month now (Oct-02). Oh well, at least he tried
Thanks Perry and Danny
, I'll see you guys again when my NEW tranny arrive next week!
PS. They have a very nice, clean, and big facility.
Anyone who read my post reagrding my experience today with Nissan please don't get me wrong about this particular dealership's (Westbury Nissan) service center! They treated me very nicely and the service write-up guy even try to change the Nissan's service computer system to see if he can get me NOT to pay the $65.20 fee. However, he cann't because Nissan already has a record of when the car is first purchased, which is over 12 month now (Oct-02). Oh well, at least he tried
Thanks Perry and Danny
, I'll see you guys again when my NEW tranny arrive next week!PS. They have a very nice, clean, and big facility.
Woke up early last Saturday to take my SB Track 350Z in to the dealership for the TSB and they sent me home because I have the 18" Rays and they don't have the proper equipment to remove the tires from the rim. I have to bring the car back all day Monday so they can perform the TSB, they have to send the wheels out to have the tires flipped or replaced. What a pain in the ***, you'd think they would buy the damn equipment. Does discount tire have the equipment to do this? Also, I hope they adjust my alignment ... as the TSB specifically states: "Check Alignment. Adjust (if needed) ... Check the vehicle's front end alignment and adjust Toe-in, if needed.)". I have this feeling that they are going to tell me that my alignment 'is fine'. We'll see.
Well, NNA has till the close of business on Wednesday to set up the final repair. I have yet to hear from them and I know they received the certified letter (return card received). What worries me is that they haven't jumped on top of this issue. Are they going ro wait till the last minute????
So 2 days to go and then that's it. I am so sad that Nissan has not done a better job to try and make this right. They thought by trying to pay me off that I was going to go away. Well, I rejected their money offer and to them either fix the car or else. It's just a damn shame....
So I'm starting the process of looking for a replacement which will not be another 350z. No other 350z can replace my Brickyard. So I'm going to look at the G35C, Jag X-type and the Subaru STI.
I wish everyone else the best of luck with their case(s). Stay the course and do not accept anything less than a complete repair with a letter to affirm the repairs.
So 2 days to go and then that's it. I am so sad that Nissan has not done a better job to try and make this right. They thought by trying to pay me off that I was going to go away. Well, I rejected their money offer and to them either fix the car or else. It's just a damn shame....
So I'm starting the process of looking for a replacement which will not be another 350z. No other 350z can replace my Brickyard. So I'm going to look at the G35C, Jag X-type and the Subaru STI.
I wish everyone else the best of luck with their case(s). Stay the course and do not accept anything less than a complete repair with a letter to affirm the repairs.
After I got my new tires and the dealer (Reliable Nissan) performed the alignment the car seems to drive easier. The steering wheel turns a little easier. I was talking to the Z technician today and I told him I wasnt sure Nissan fixed the problem with new ties and alignment and he just smiled at me with no comment. Who is the reliable source that says theres a fix coming soon?
I have been waiting for my nationwide backordered tires since Sept. I am calling NNA,BBB and the NTHSA to file a complaint tommorrow. I also want to talk to someone other than Customer service rep. or some marketing rep. who do'nt know s**t about cars. I have all tha Z problems not only the suspension prob. but grinding tranny, moving seat , paint chipping, brakes worn out at 10K, belts replaced 10K, window streak, seat side bolster coming undone, rattles and ticks, rear axle creaking sound, window goes up and back down 5" sometimes, extreme bouncy ride, ripped door trailing edges etc., etc.
I'm going to start a Thread in Repairing
Your Front Caster and Camber Specs Please.
For those of you Ackerman Angle fans. We are currently comparing G35 & G35C specs with 350Z.
Specifications do not jive.
Although same parts are hung on each car. (Struts excluded) the alignment specs need to be examined from Data from you guy's in the field.
The G35C ( with better tires - ) does not have a TSB for Feathering yet !
Although the wheel base of the cars differ by 8 inches, the steering parts of the cars appear to be the same. ( AA anyone? )
G35 Sedan and G35C Coupe drivers please contribute too.
Aftermarket Suspension people please take note..
Cheers Amy
- 
Link:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=53630
Your Front Caster and Camber Specs Please.
For those of you Ackerman Angle fans. We are currently comparing G35 & G35C specs with 350Z.
Specifications do not jive.
Although same parts are hung on each car. (Struts excluded) the alignment specs need to be examined from Data from you guy's in the field.
The G35C ( with better tires - ) does not have a TSB for Feathering yet !
Although the wheel base of the cars differ by 8 inches, the steering parts of the cars appear to be the same. ( AA anyone? )
G35 Sedan and G35C Coupe drivers please contribute too.
Aftermarket Suspension people please take note..
Cheers Amy
- 
Link:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=53630
Last edited by AmyCroft; Dec 15, 2003 at 10:52 PM.
DAMN, DAMN, DAMN ! this is my second post to the site ,here i've been up since 1am until the time of this post reading all (almost all) of these problems on the Z .i too have noticed that horrible sound from my Z and so did my 5th passenger, when he asked...... "is that your brakes grinding?" i had no idea what it was other than the tires doing something funky, and after reading the majority of the 86 posts on this issue i'm fairly sure that i too will get the run around from nna/local dealerships/etc...
i've copied #'s and addresses from different replies in the forum to get my ball rolling too. however if theres not a fix ,it'll never reach its warranty expiration mileage because it'll sit until they put their engineering craniums together and hold up their end of the bargain. if i had to pay for it along with a warranty then they are to honor up to it or give me my money back. i'm becoming convinced that NISSAN may have some nice cars w/o problems because my other two are fine however i've done engine swaps on both already nonetheless they're nissan motors. my drama has just begun ,and i'm already tired ............if anyone finds a way to have NISSAN eat this vehicle please reply to me or the forum
:-(
oh so sad
i've copied #'s and addresses from different replies in the forum to get my ball rolling too. however if theres not a fix ,it'll never reach its warranty expiration mileage because it'll sit until they put their engineering craniums together and hold up their end of the bargain. if i had to pay for it along with a warranty then they are to honor up to it or give me my money back. i'm becoming convinced that NISSAN may have some nice cars w/o problems because my other two are fine however i've done engine swaps on both already nonetheless they're nissan motors. my drama has just begun ,and i'm already tired ............if anyone finds a way to have NISSAN eat this vehicle please reply to me or the forum
:-(
oh so sad
Originally posted by YourMomma
UPDATE
Just got my front tires replaced and a 4 wheel alignment at 12,030 miles. I now remember why I bought this car! Its quiet again, and I can hear the radio with the volume at 7 while cruising at 50 mph. Once again the car feels as if its on rails. I have the alignment sheet. Will post if anyone is interested.
DEALER BS
Harrassed the service writer by asking if he wanted to make a bet about how long before the roar is back. Told him I'd expect to do the same dance in another 4-5000 miles. His response, "Bridgestone changed the tire compound, that's why it took so long for the tires to come in". I smiled and replied, "OK... we'll see."
To his credit I did notice some markings on the tires that I don't have on my rears and never noticed on the front. There is a circle about the size of a dime with "E4" inside it. There is also a mark about the same size "I008". They are below the Bridgestone label.
Does anyone have a idea of what these might be? Does anyone else have these? Possible production run/revision change? They still have a 140 rating.
GENERAL THOUGHTS
I still belive this is a combination issue between toe, camber, and caster. I also belive that the shock/spring combo contributes greatly to the problem.
Besides Boomer and Ezchief, no one commented on my posting about the extreme angles when the wheels are at full lock. Has anyone looked at their car head on when their wheel is at full lock? My original post is here: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....man#post545136
The idea here is similar to a "raked out" chopper. If anyone has taken a ride on a motorcyle with extreme rake they know that you can't turn too far or the tire essentially flops into the turn. Rake on a motorcycle is the same as caster on a car.
Here's a site that explains Ackerman Angle. Its for RC cars but the principles still apply.
http://www.rctek.com/handling/ackerm...principle.html
This one is about Caster
http://www.rctek.com/handling/caster..._advanced.html
The more I read about all the elements of suspension theory the more it seems to me that the front suspension of our car will continue to eat tires with a voracious appetite. Based on what I read at the rctek site I now understand why we have the extreme camber angle during turns. Positive caster creates negative camber (tire leans in). See this link http://www.rctek.com/handling/caster...er_change.html
So here is my diagnosis:
1. By design we have negative camber for better road handling.
2. By design we have positive caster for better stability.
3. A lot of cars came from the factory toed out which increases turn-in.
Negative camber puts the force towards the inside of the tire.
Positive caster creates additional negative camber during a turn.
With a toe-out condition and the ackerman angle either at True or More we are now dragging the inner edge which is already loaded due to camber & caster plus our forward motion. Combine mismatched shocks/springs and we have now introduced camber fluctuation (the wheel will camber in & out).
I'm no longer amazed that our tires are toast @5000 miles. I'm surprised they last that long.
UPDATE
Just got my front tires replaced and a 4 wheel alignment at 12,030 miles. I now remember why I bought this car! Its quiet again, and I can hear the radio with the volume at 7 while cruising at 50 mph. Once again the car feels as if its on rails. I have the alignment sheet. Will post if anyone is interested.
DEALER BS
Harrassed the service writer by asking if he wanted to make a bet about how long before the roar is back. Told him I'd expect to do the same dance in another 4-5000 miles. His response, "Bridgestone changed the tire compound, that's why it took so long for the tires to come in". I smiled and replied, "OK... we'll see."
To his credit I did notice some markings on the tires that I don't have on my rears and never noticed on the front. There is a circle about the size of a dime with "E4" inside it. There is also a mark about the same size "I008". They are below the Bridgestone label.
Does anyone have a idea of what these might be? Does anyone else have these? Possible production run/revision change? They still have a 140 rating.
GENERAL THOUGHTS
I still belive this is a combination issue between toe, camber, and caster. I also belive that the shock/spring combo contributes greatly to the problem.
Besides Boomer and Ezchief, no one commented on my posting about the extreme angles when the wheels are at full lock. Has anyone looked at their car head on when their wheel is at full lock? My original post is here: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....man#post545136
The idea here is similar to a "raked out" chopper. If anyone has taken a ride on a motorcyle with extreme rake they know that you can't turn too far or the tire essentially flops into the turn. Rake on a motorcycle is the same as caster on a car.
Here's a site that explains Ackerman Angle. Its for RC cars but the principles still apply.
http://www.rctek.com/handling/ackerm...principle.html
This one is about Caster
http://www.rctek.com/handling/caster..._advanced.html
The more I read about all the elements of suspension theory the more it seems to me that the front suspension of our car will continue to eat tires with a voracious appetite. Based on what I read at the rctek site I now understand why we have the extreme camber angle during turns. Positive caster creates negative camber (tire leans in). See this link http://www.rctek.com/handling/caster...er_change.html
So here is my diagnosis:
1. By design we have negative camber for better road handling.
2. By design we have positive caster for better stability.
3. A lot of cars came from the factory toed out which increases turn-in.
Negative camber puts the force towards the inside of the tire.
Positive caster creates additional negative camber during a turn.
With a toe-out condition and the ackerman angle either at True or More we are now dragging the inner edge which is already loaded due to camber & caster plus our forward motion. Combine mismatched shocks/springs and we have now introduced camber fluctuation (the wheel will camber in & out).
I'm no longer amazed that our tires are toast @5000 miles. I'm surprised they last that long.
Originally posted by boxsterkiller
I have been waiting for my nationwide backordered tires since Sept. I am calling NNA,BBB and the NTHSA to file a complaint tommorrow. I also want to talk to someone other than Customer service rep. or some marketing rep. who do'nt know s**t about cars. I have all tha Z problems not only the suspension prob. but grinding tranny, moving seat , paint chipping, brakes worn out at 10K, belts replaced 10K, window streak, seat side bolster coming undone, rattles and ticks, rear axle creaking sound, window goes up and back down 5" sometimes, extreme bouncy ride, ripped door trailing edges etc., etc.
I have been waiting for my nationwide backordered tires since Sept. I am calling NNA,BBB and the NTHSA to file a complaint tommorrow. I also want to talk to someone other than Customer service rep. or some marketing rep. who do'nt know s**t about cars. I have all tha Z problems not only the suspension prob. but grinding tranny, moving seat , paint chipping, brakes worn out at 10K, belts replaced 10K, window streak, seat side bolster coming undone, rattles and ticks, rear axle creaking sound, window goes up and back down 5" sometimes, extreme bouncy ride, ripped door trailing edges etc., etc.
Just filed my case with NNA. What else can I do besides waiting like a fool for Nissan's solution on this tire cupping issue?
PS. The lady from NNA was nice on the phone
PS. The lady from NNA was nice on the phone
Last edited by 350z-z33; Dec 16, 2003 at 08:43 AM.
Well, just had the Nissan engineers inspect my car with my 2nd set of tires (S03's this time) with 6000 miles on them.
They stated that alignment was within proper specs and wear pattern on tires is normal. I guess that means the Z is designed to cause a heel toe wear pattern?
I am going to call Jamie at NNA one more time as the final chance. If they refuse to fix the car then it will be arbitration or lemon law buy back for me.
I am so dissapointed and mad. I had really hoped that Nissan would step up and actually try and fix the problem, but I have lost all faith.
Word of warning to all potentia Z car buyers: your tires will only last 4000-9000 miles before your sports car sounds like an offroad truck with mudder tires on it. Shortly thereafter the tires will be so destroyed you will need to spend $1000 in tires every 10-15k miles.
So much for low maintenance.
They stated that alignment was within proper specs and wear pattern on tires is normal. I guess that means the Z is designed to cause a heel toe wear pattern?
I am going to call Jamie at NNA one more time as the final chance. If they refuse to fix the car then it will be arbitration or lemon law buy back for me.
I am so dissapointed and mad. I had really hoped that Nissan would step up and actually try and fix the problem, but I have lost all faith.
Word of warning to all potentia Z car buyers: your tires will only last 4000-9000 miles before your sports car sounds like an offroad truck with mudder tires on it. Shortly thereafter the tires will be so destroyed you will need to spend $1000 in tires every 10-15k miles.
So much for low maintenance.
Originally posted by jelledge
Well, just had the Nissan engineers inspect my car with my 2nd set of tires (S03's this time) with 6000 miles on them.
They stated that alignment was within proper specs and wear pattern on tires is normal. I guess that means the Z is designed to cause a heel toe wear pattern?
I am going to call Jamie at NNA one more time as the final chance. If they refuse to fix the car then it will be arbitration or lemon law buy back for me.
I am so dissapointed and mad. I had really hoped that Nissan would step up and actually try and fix the problem, but I have lost all faith.
Word of warning to all potentia Z car buyers: your tires will only last 4000-9000 miles before your sports car sounds like an offroad truck with mudder tires on it. Shortly thereafter the tires will be so destroyed you will need to spend $1000 in tires every 10-15k miles.
So much for low maintenance.
Well, just had the Nissan engineers inspect my car with my 2nd set of tires (S03's this time) with 6000 miles on them.
They stated that alignment was within proper specs and wear pattern on tires is normal. I guess that means the Z is designed to cause a heel toe wear pattern?
I am going to call Jamie at NNA one more time as the final chance. If they refuse to fix the car then it will be arbitration or lemon law buy back for me.
I am so dissapointed and mad. I had really hoped that Nissan would step up and actually try and fix the problem, but I have lost all faith.
Word of warning to all potentia Z car buyers: your tires will only last 4000-9000 miles before your sports car sounds like an offroad truck with mudder tires on it. Shortly thereafter the tires will be so destroyed you will need to spend $1000 in tires every 10-15k miles.
So much for low maintenance.
Strange...
Originally posted by 350z-z33
Just filed my case with NNA. What else can I do besides waiting like a fool for Nissan's solution on this tire cupping issue?
PS. The lady from NNA was nice on the phone
Just filed my case with NNA. What else can I do besides waiting like a fool for Nissan's solution on this tire cupping issue?
PS. The lady from NNA was nice on the phone
Well... I am in the process of reading all 86 pages of this huge thread (somewhere around 46 now). I started reading a bit and decided to take my car in for the 7,500 service. I mentioned the noise and told him it started about 2000mi ago. He said he had never heard of any problems with the tires (Daniel at Douglas Nissan of Orange) but would check it out. They had my car from 9:00am to 6:15pm. When I finally got it he said the alignment tech said my car was in spec. I wish I had read more and asked for the spec sheet now.
I kept telling him about the TSB and he said I could fax it to him and he would look at it (I did not have a hard copy at the time) but it was probably not for my VIN # (02/03). He tried to tell me the noise was from the wide tires in the front. I just laughed and told him it did not do that when I first bought it.
Needless to say I left with nothing but the service. Today I called him back with the TSB # and told him he needed to look up the TSB # and I wanted it fixed. He said they will not cover the tires under warranty but would look it up and call me back.
I looked over my tires many times and at 7600 miles I do not see any cupping, but I have the loud noise when I brake. From what I read so far this is the beginning. If I complain about the problem they should at least do what the TSB says. Right? I hate that D**mn noise!!! Am I wrong for jumping down his throat? Should I go to another dealer? I need a little advice before I talk to him again.
Jim
I kept telling him about the TSB and he said I could fax it to him and he would look at it (I did not have a hard copy at the time) but it was probably not for my VIN # (02/03). He tried to tell me the noise was from the wide tires in the front. I just laughed and told him it did not do that when I first bought it.
Needless to say I left with nothing but the service. Today I called him back with the TSB # and told him he needed to look up the TSB # and I wanted it fixed. He said they will not cover the tires under warranty but would look it up and call me back.
I looked over my tires many times and at 7600 miles I do not see any cupping, but I have the loud noise when I brake. From what I read so far this is the beginning. If I complain about the problem they should at least do what the TSB says. Right? I hate that D**mn noise!!! Am I wrong for jumping down his throat? Should I go to another dealer? I need a little advice before I talk to him again.
Jim
Originally posted by dnguyent
Just to add to the safety issue:
Excess noise from roaring tires may drown out noises that could indicate more severe safety problems with the car. It could also impede your senses for emergency vehicles or nearby cars. That's a safety stance that can also be considered.
Just to add to the safety issue:
Excess noise from roaring tires may drown out noises that could indicate more severe safety problems with the car. It could also impede your senses for emergency vehicles or nearby cars. That's a safety stance that can also be considered.
Originally posted by mrice
I think we all need to keep up the pressure but not overreact at this point. It is in their best interest to resolve this problem, and I dont think its strictly a money issue, I think they just want to be sure what resolves the problem. For my 04 Z Roadster Nissan (or dealer) has footed the bill for: 4 new Michelin Pilots at $1400, 4 new rims @ Im guessing $1200 plus for damage putting on the new tires, and $4500 for a new top for pinholes ( to be installed this spring). They have long since spent their profit margin for this car. I knew going in there would be problems with a new production; they know its in their best interests to resolve the problems, and for me at least, Ive had no problems getting my issues addressed. Until they say they arent going to fix it, Ill give them the benefit of the doubt. (holding breath waiting for flames
)
I think we all need to keep up the pressure but not overreact at this point. It is in their best interest to resolve this problem, and I dont think its strictly a money issue, I think they just want to be sure what resolves the problem. For my 04 Z Roadster Nissan (or dealer) has footed the bill for: 4 new Michelin Pilots at $1400, 4 new rims @ Im guessing $1200 plus for damage putting on the new tires, and $4500 for a new top for pinholes ( to be installed this spring). They have long since spent their profit margin for this car. I knew going in there would be problems with a new production; they know its in their best interests to resolve the problems, and for me at least, Ive had no problems getting my issues addressed. Until they say they arent going to fix it, Ill give them the benefit of the doubt. (holding breath waiting for flames
)
Jamie Foust at NNA bascially said the engineers did not find anything wrong with the car and felt the noise from the tires is normal.
The engineers had no official position about the heel toe wear pattern and would not give any official review as to whether the wear on the tires was normal or not. WOW sounds like they are ducking that one something fierce.
Basically Jamie said there is nothing else they will do to the car at this point. Of course there was the promise that the engineers will be reviwing data from all the cars tested over the next few months. Well guess what -- everyone is being told that the tire problems are either their problem or there is nothing wrong --- wanna take a guess at the engineering evaluation?
Another 350Z going to be bought back by Nissan. Man this really sucks.
The engineers had no official position about the heel toe wear pattern and would not give any official review as to whether the wear on the tires was normal or not. WOW sounds like they are ducking that one something fierce.
Basically Jamie said there is nothing else they will do to the car at this point. Of course there was the promise that the engineers will be reviwing data from all the cars tested over the next few months. Well guess what -- everyone is being told that the tire problems are either their problem or there is nothing wrong --- wanna take a guess at the engineering evaluation?
Another 350Z going to be bought back by Nissan. Man this really sucks.



Thanks!