HRMoneyPit

In here for updates on the tires on the track

I shall be using mine in the next couple weeks hopefully

QuintonC

iTrader: (2)

Thanks! I'll let you know how they handle on the track


Quick snap from this past weekend.

Track day coming up this weekend, let's see how she performs.

HRMoneyPit

Just started daily driving my car to kill my tires cause I can't bare waste tw9 tires that still have tread lol


But next track day is like November

QuintonC

iTrader: (2)

Mine is this weekend, so I should definitely have some input for you soon

HRMoneyPit

Thanks man


Let's see how these "cheaters" do

HRMoneyPit

Wow I just put on my tires and holy **** are they loud af! Sound like mud tires

QuintonC

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, they're super loud. Also not nearly as grippy as I had hoped. So much for 'Cheater' tires

I'll be switching tires next season without a doubt, I've got it down to two different tires I'm looking at. I'll outline that as well as my winter plans and more information about my track weekend here.

Some might now know, but this was my first track weekend ever. So I learned way more than I expected to, and driving my car, I had a lot to learn.

Onto the tires and grip... I learned very quickly that these tires do not have much grip at all, they just want to slide around. When they get hot, they don't really marble like you would expect them to, instead they just kind of melt. My instructor who is a close friend of mine drives a track prepped e92 M3 on Hoosiers and he was commenting from the passenger side of the car how little grip the tires had. I then had a friend drive the car in advanced group the next morning and he had the same comment. That being said, the suspension absolutely needs to be set up properly by a shop (I'm not a suspension guy at all). The front was rubbing pretty bad...

Onto my brakes - the Wilwood BP10 pads just aren't cutting it at all. I was getting outbraked by a 2013 BRZ on stoptech pads and rotors with stock brake calipers. But I won't lie - that car was a blast to drive. I was about 5-10 seconds faster in that car than my own, which was interesting. I learned a lot of really interesting concepts driving an underpowered car on the track.

Some pictures, then onto my winter plans.

The Grip Junkies crew arrived (blue BRZ), myself, a few others not picture as they were pulling in. This was after grabbing my registration packet.



Later in the day, doing some trackside repairs. O2 plug on the OEM header backed itself out. Thankfully I grabbed some others before I left the house Friday night... This took forever to get back into place. Had to disconnect the downpipe from the turbo and loosen some other stuff to move the downpipe enough to get the new plug in.



And on track shots thanks to ABI Photography.





































Bonus!


Okay, so onto the winter plans... I'll be picking up a daily here soon, something that I can use to tow the car to the track. That being said, it's time to turn the car into full racecar.

I ended up driving a buddy's BRZ almost all day Sunday because of my slave cylinder failing for the most part. I was able to get about 5-6 laps in before the clutch pedal would drop to the floor. I spoke with Russ @ Z1 and found out that the issue was blown seals on the slave cylinder. A lot of people just replace with the OEM slave, but I figure for $40, why not get the CMAK. It's not much more, and it's supposed to be stronger, so *shrug* But along with that, I need to get the Wilwood CMC and then upgrade my clutch fluid. I'll be running Motul RBF600 in the clutch to match the brakes.

I had considered doing PolyMatrix A pads, but after looking at the charts, it doesn't look like I'd be able to heel toe as they're too aggressive when it comes to initial bite. The H's have better bite than the A as they get warmer, but not too much. So I should be able to heel toe, and stop as fast as I need to.

So the plans are as follows:

• Tack O2 plug into header
• Remove A/C Compressor
• Remove A/C Lines
• Remove A/C Condenser
• ZSpeed Wilwood CMC
• ZSpeed CMAK CSC
• ZSpeed CSC Heat Wrapped Line
• Wilwood PolyMatrix H Pads Front/Rear
• Nitto NT01 / Toyo R888R
• Cut rear bumper
• Kognition Wing
• Build front splitter (Alumalite 10mm + FTR Support Rods)
• Build rear diffuser (5052H32 .08")
• Extend rear toe holes
• LCA Bushings
• Z1 Motorsports Differential Cover
• Differential cooler
• Drain / Refill trans fluid
• Drain / Refill diff fluid
• New radiator hoses
• Koyo radiator w/ Mishimoto fans
• Gut car (cut out rear speakerbar, remove headliner/plastics)
• Corner balance car

HRMoneyPit

Well there goes any hope I had in these

QuintonC

iTrader: (2)

I mean, they're good street tires. But that's about it haha. The original RS-R are great on track. These... not so much.

MicVelo

Long and tedious response..... you're warned.

============================

Quinton, Mal, before you guys go condemning your tires and considering a new set of "DOT legal race rubber", consider that y'all just put them on! ALL full tread depth, meant-for-street tires with 10/32nds are going to have zero grip/maximum squirm until you're down AT LEAST 25% and they've heat cycled enough times to take a proper set.

A few new-to-the-track tips (I'm not a wizard, just been-there-done-that a few times):

Break the tires in at least 500-1000 miles without beating the hell out of them; then gradually work into them. On 300 UTQG tires (essentially "street tires"}, I'd tell you to put at least 2000-2500 "normal" street/highway miles on them before you go rolling them onto their sidewalls at the track. But if that's out of the question, at least the 500-1000 miles I mentioned.

If you still can't do that and you're serious about using your car as a dedicated track car, consider shaving the tires down to 6/32nds (to start). Contrary to what one may think, a properly broken in or shaved tire will actually give you more track life, partially due the reduction in chunking and/or malforming of the tread through heat cycling.

Also, not sure if either of you are in possession of a tire pyrometer at the track. THAT (and your tire gauge and spare air bottle) are your best friends at the track. Temperature is EVERYTHING on a tire used for track duty. On the track with our heavy cars, you should be able to see 180-degF+ after a couple of laps. If not, you may then consider "real race rubber" or even sizing down a tad.

Take the time to initially just take temps and note the temps across the tread, each tire IMMEDIATELY off track. (Having a friend do it while you're cooling the car down is helpful.)

And while you're at all that, get some white shoe polish and apply to the tire shoulders from about an inch onto the tread and down to the shoulder line just prior to your run group going out (allowing a few minutes to let it dry.)

Take pics of the these marks following your runs.

This is what's known to us old guys as "data acquisition using a pencil and paper."

Don't try to interpret the data while at the track. Concentrate on your driving (and fun). BUT. AFTER you get home, study all the data you've gathered... heat data, pics of the shoulder markings, and look at and make notes of the variations across the tread and on the shoulders. This data will help your alignment tech to set you up to try and equalize temps across the section width.

For your NEXT track outing.

OK, for your first few times out, this is a LOT to digest, I know. My first day on track was a solo event (running my 280Z as an SSA car in Solo 1 back in the day) and I couldn't remember ANYTHING my instructors told me, let alone whether or not my tire pressures were correct. Laff...

As I mentioned, concentrate on the experience, the actual driving, the physicality of the track, e.g. brake markers, apexes, track camber angles, that sort of thing. But don't forget to collect the car data between runs.

Most importantly, HAVE FUN, be safe, and don't make any decisions on hardware, settings or anything until you've analyzed the data. Throwing stuff at the car cuz they're "known to be good tires" or similar is a waste of money if the root cause of your rollover issues, as an example, are simply due to something fixable like, say, air pressure or alignment. Hahaha.

I could go on but I've reached my weekly allotment of words on this forum.

QuintonC

iTrader: (2)

Excellent response. Of course, I did do a lot of these things though. The tires had about 800 miles on them prior to the track day (I wasn't wanting to shave them, so I figured I'd get some seat time in and go drive the car around a bit instead).

We did test with a pyrometer briefly, but should've done more testing with that tool for sure. Messed with tire pressures a bit, but could never get these to bite like the should've. Had an instructor drive the car as well and their immediate complaints were the tires and the alignment. Mostly tire and brake complaints actually, alignment wasn't awful, but was certainly rubbing in the front.

Hence the corner balancing over the winter (which will of course come after gutting the car and building proper aero for downforce). I'm working with an aerodynamicist from Velox Motorsports to get aero tweaked properly and made of the right material so that I don't have a large paperweight attached to the car.

I hadn't heard of the white shoe polish trick though, that's a new one to me, I'll keep that in mind for my next outing for sure!

And absolutely, like you said, I was focused more on my consistency with hitting the apexes and braking zones at the right time. Essentially braking between the 1 marker to the .5 marker, and getting the track down (maximizing the track use).

I'm excited for next season and to get the car a bit more well suited for next season.

HRMoneyPit

One day I'd go as hard core as mic wants me too. I'm more of enjoying my time still then getting the fastest times.


But one day I'd love to put that much effort into it. My tire tricks go on wear lol

I can look at the tires on after the day and if I see more wear inside then out I have too much camber. AND While I'm at the track I use my hand to feel the heat haha. Kind of same idea

MicVelo

Yeah, not trying to tell anyone how to do stuff.... just paying it forward for the valuable advice the veteran racers that took me under wing back in the day and showed me stuff while I was either out there racing or merely supporting the Datsun people from my truck n' trailer full of Dat Comp parts (usually stuff ordered for track side delivery).

As I always like to say, "If any advice or tips I give help out just one person do something good (or avoid doing something wrong), then it was worthwhile writing or saying it."

Have fun!

HRMoneyPit

Come to the track then teach me these tips. Cause I'll forget over the Internet lol

IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

awesome post man... but I have to say... I know it looks a bit ugly but specially if you are tracking it.. put the foam on the cage bars next to your head

QuintonC

iTrader: (2)

Lol it is there. It's been there ever since I put the cage in.

IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

oh lol, I coudlnt tell

to be clear again.. those are some bad *** pictures!

QuintonC

iTrader: (2)

Haha, yeah it's hard to tell. Black seats/black helmet/black harnesses/black padding/black cage/black car/black brakes/black wheels, etc. It all just kind of blends in.

Thanks, buddy. Will definitely be more of a time attack car next season.

QuintonC

iTrader: (2)

Well, I did a thing last night.

Now the wait... I'll be sure to include install pics, etc.

pyshin

iTrader: (14)

^^^ Congrats on the purchase.. Always Function over Form.