I am basically starting this after reading the "I destroyed all" flame tread on this forum and a few others on racing, I am so tired of statements like this:

Quote:
And your point is what? You beat a V6 Camaro.....pat yourself on the back

So I am wondering the thought process is behind this?

Matching a Nissan V6 and a Chevy V6 is just not fair right?? Even with the larger displacement on Chevy's side and similiar car weight? You gotta make it a V8 before there is real competition and also 2.2 liters larger! I mean Pontiac has a 3.8 liter supercharged engine that only puts out 250HP, Nissan makes a 3.5 N/A that gets 287HP?!?

Note to Z members:
REMEMBER Z folks! Never compare american V6's to Nissan V6's, you get called lame for that!

"Congrats on beating a 6 cyl Mustang "

This is such a silly statement concidering its a larger V6 engine (3.8 if I remember correctly). If you proportionally increase the HP of a 350z engine 2.2 liters it would in Theory produce 467HP (just for sake of argument).. So all you LS1 or V8 people should realize this..

I just had to get this out, It annoys the heck out of me seeing sarcasim for beating a larger V6 engine as if you were talking about beating 4 cyc geo metro or something. Do you realize in size the Nissan 3.5 V6 is to a 1.3 liter 4 banger engine as a Nissan 3.5 V6 is to a Chevy V8 5.7??

How come is doesn't work this way when you 5.7 folks beat a say... umm... a 3.5 liter V6 Z??

"O big deal, you beat a V6 Nissan.. "

I think this is a funny topic and the reason why I posted this here is because it is about racing, and its basically where the V8 people run about. I have no prob with the V8 people or anything, but I think this is a double standard if I ever seen one.

PS. I do know that Mustang GT's etc have 4.6 V8's, no need to compare both engines, its a point I was trying to make so I used the Chevy V8 (for you people waiting to flame).

 

There's a lot more to engine design than displacement and number of cylinders. Comparing the V6 in a Camaro to the V6 in a 350Z is pretty silly, considering that one is an OHV, 2 valve per cylinder engine designed around economy and everyday driveability and the other is an expensive high tech 24-valve DOHC wonder intended to propel a company's flagship sports car.

The point of your post borders on arguing the worth of specific displacement, a favorite pasttime of ClubRSX and VWVortex members. Besides, if only V6 vs. V6 comparisons were "fair", why were so many my350Z.com owners proud of beating S2000's not too long ago?

 

HP/L=rice-boy argument. You sound like the kids who think if Honda made a 5.7 liter engine it would have 120 HP/L and spin to 9k. The bottom line is it's not my fault that Nissan gave a $30k+ sports car less displacement to work with. It's not impressive when you beat a V6 stang or f-body because they are not the performance model, and in f-body form are down more than 100 hp from the V8 models. A 350Z is the performance model from Nissan. You're comparing a sub $20K econo-f-body to a $30K+ plus sports car. They didn't intend for the V6 ones to be fast, because they had V8 models. Why bother?(TTA aside of course)

Does it really make you feel better to compare your brand new sports car to the base model f-bodies, just because the engine size is similar? It's two totally different approaches to building cars and engines. You could make the same arguments about an S2000 vs. a 350Z, and it would be just as lame. HP/L is just something for C&D driver editors to jerk off over. The timing clocks don't care how big or small your engine is.

 

Also, to address a couple of your points specifically...

In theory, the additional mass in the rotating assembly would more than likely lower the redline of the engine, which would also more than likely lower the RPM at which max horsepower production occured. The net result is that you can't use a linear scale to guesstimate this 5.7L VQ's output, as horsepower = torque X RPM / 5,200. This is all in theory though

Not really. A 3.5L engine is 2.7 times larger (170%) than a 1.3L engine. A 5.7L engine is 1.6 times larger (60%) than a 3.5L engine.

 

Double post! Almost as bad a "picking" on other cars when you have double the displacement!

 

Why are you comparing to that other post??? Everybody that called BS was right, the guy was lieing. Should we all just lay down and say good kill no matter what???

 

Am I dreaming or do I remember the V8 crew tossing around the old "there is no replacement for displacment" line?

And you can say the 350z is the performance engine and flagship or whatever, but remember it also powers 2 4-dr sedans (You can get a new V6 Altima for 20k and run mid 14's), an SUV and other mixed models with slightly reduced HP.. Kinda waters down the "performance model" theory.

I am not starting a flame war or whatever, I am an engineer and I understand fully the mechanics of engines. I just want to hear what people have to say about this since I know the V8 people have "strong opinons" and a duty to defend thier beloved make's name.

BTW sukkoi19, the guy in that post was a goon starting trouble, It was the unlimited number of "you beat a V6 camaro" stuff that got me thinking. This is in NO defence of that guy whatsoever and I am not sure how you got that idea.

 

Are you saying the 350Z is not a performance car, and should therefore be compared to V6 f-bodies instead of V8's? You know they put LS1 family engines in trucks, but nobody is comparing a v8 f-body to a Frontier.

 

Nope.

Just saying that the engine is not only unique to a "performance model"

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Like I said, the 5.3 and 6.0 truck engines are in the LS1 family of engines, just like the LS1/6 in the corvette. The corvette is still the flagship performance car.

 

The only replacement for cubic inches is rectangular dollars. Which is exactly what turbos, multiple camshafts, more valves, variable valve timing and lift, and the like add to the cost of engines.

Engine comparisons are difficult if you get caught up in specific output because there are so many variables that affect it. Personally, I could give a rat's **** how an engine puts out it's power, only that it does when and where I want it to.

 

So maybe that saying should be modified since "no" don't mean no..

I totally agree with you here

 

BTW sukkoi19, the guy in that post was a goon starting trouble, It was the unlimited number of "you beat a V6 camaro" stuff that got me thinking. This is in NO defence of that guy whatsoever and I am not sure how you got that idea. [/B][/QUOTE]

I didnt say you were defending him, I said why are you comparing. I know I would never relate to a thread that was BS if I was trying to make a point about something. In this case all the guys calling BS were right, thats an arguement for having other car owners on this board. We all have LS1 or LT1 powered cars, and know what they should run, the times quoted were more for a V6 powered F-bodys, so guys called it like they saw it. And guess what the guy wasnt racing LS1 powered cars, he lied they were right, no misinformation was spread, seems like it all worked out to me.

 

one phrase comes to mind....


SHUT UP AND RACE!!!!

 

I challenged him, more like invited him, to come to Memphis to run against me at the track. I am not too far from him and would gladly educate him on how fast LS1s actually are. He said he didnt want to waste his tires so he wasnt going to come out and play.

 

The V6 F-body is an "econo" f-body. It was made to sell in greater numbers and to get better gas mileage, emissions, etc.

The Series II 3800 V6 is a GREAT engine......however its basic design dates back to the late 80s. Especially in supercharged form the engine is a beast with awesome low end and mid range torque.
The engine is not a revver.....it is a OHV 2 valve per cylinder single camshaft pushrod motor. It is simple, cheap to produce, gets good mileage, and is a great engine.

The 3.5L in the Z is a good engine as most of you already know which benefits from a much newer design as well as it is much more costly to produce.....even moreso than a LS1 V8.

The LS1 is the most advanced pushrod V8 in the world and revs silky smooth and has awesome top end power unlike just about any OHV V8 ever made. The heads on it rival Winston Cup heads from just a few years ago......the flow numbers and swirl of the heads is amazing for a production car......no to mention all of that coming through only 2 valves per cylinder, 1 camshaft, and good ole pushrods.

The LS1 cars get every bit as good if not better gas mileage than a Z while putting out a lot more HP and TQ.


Nissan cheats its power disadvantage by increasing the gearing so the car will accelerate well......GM puts tall gearing in the LS1s so its possible to keep revs down and get awesome gas mileage....after all the LS1 is a low emissions certified engine. The TQ allows the gearing because there is so much TQ down low it can effortlessly pull from low RPMs while still revving like a monster.

Fact is you compare what you have.....NOT what you don't......
I believe Nissan is developing a V8 for their new upcoming truck and guess what......its NOT going to have the 450HP + that you think it would using your logic.....300 is a better bet.

Fact is in the other thread......the guy was posting pure BS and I called him on it......the times he posted were from a econo 6 cylinder car that cost half as much as his Z.

However don't think all V6 F-bodies/Mustangs are slow......a friend with just bolt-ons and a 100 shot in his V6 Mustang ran 13.2 @108.....not to shabby at all.

Peace

 

is this thread about the guy that went to the 1/8th track and ran in the 9's and thought he was fast?

 

I live about 40 miles from Boston and if Daytona is up for it I can and will run at the track even with needing a clutch, just a friendly encounter, I have run one on the street from a roll and I want to run one at the track...

 

How old are you? If you really need to ask in that manner you don't deserve an answer, expecially since you should be able to answer it yourself by READING the tread.

Anyway,

JamRWS6: Good post, some good responses here (except for Jackie Chan?? ). I was never passing any judgement anywhere, I just wanted to start a discussion about all this "O big deal you beat a V6 Camaro" stuff. I am an all out car fanatic of all kinds and if I were to have a 2nd sports car right now it WOULD deffinatly be an SS or a Cobra. I can probably recite every car's "mag stats" and specs for the last 10 years from all the car and driver and Road and track mags I have read.

RD99SS:

I'll line up any time, I'm always up for a good race (maybe not so good in this case). I got my *** handed to be by a souped up Supra TT a few weeks ago, it was fun. I just raced my little bro's friend yesterday, he has a Integra GS-R with a Jackson SC and an entire host of mods and beat him pretty good.
BTW RD99SS- I plan on running at NED this Friday, you coming?

 

In essence then, this thread and all other threads about racing are moot and not worth discussing anymore. If you want to break things down to only talking about "performance" specific cars or economy cars... then I guess it all comes down to this: He who has the most money, wins! Take your LS1, and race against a

360 Ferrari Spider - you get smoked
Porche 911 Turbo - you get smoked
Lamborgini Diablo 6.0 - you get smoked
Toyota Supra TT - you get smoked

etc, etc...

So why even bother discussing this any further? Just pick the car you like the best for drive/looks/comfort etc... and don't worry if it is a second slower than some other car... because there will always be a faster car.
N.