IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

the 48 unit does allow stock ecu cam control... which is good enough unless you running decently wild cams
the 48 box will still connect via usb i believe... but its not a regular usb type cable.... something weird....is somethign else on the 48 box but the end of the cable to the PC will be usb...hopefully chris can elaborate
the 2 1/8" or 4" gauge is a can gauge

SoundPerformance

#1) The 128 unit is available now. Unfortunately the code for cam control and throttle control will not be ready for a few more months. The factory computer however will control these perfectly. Honestly there is no need not to let the factory computer do these. We will be using the 48 box on our own car...... it does EVERYTHING we need it to do.

#2) The 48 box is USB. It can do NOS control, boost control, and some traction control.

#3) These units have adaptive learning for timing, fuel, boost , idle speed etc control..... However do not mistake this for a completely self tuning unit. There is no such thing. I highly recommend that initially the car is placed on a dyno with a competent tuner behind the wheel. Once the initial tune is done.... all the rest (temperature, elevation, humidity etc changes, small octane changes, and even such things as a turbo swap, cam swap, intake manifold swap) will be adaptively learned by the ECU.


For example we just installed the unit in a supra at our shop with a calibration from a totally different supra. We only made a few changes to the calibration.... injector size and fuel pressure and we were up and running. Within 2 pulls on the dyno we were making complete full throttle pulls that were spot on with the air fuels that we were commanding!! However the first 2 pulls did require enough changes to some settings that without me lifting, would have been hazardous to the engine.

I do feel that once we have enough seat time with setting up calibrations for various setups that we will be able to supply a map that will require very little tuning if any at all. Like every other aftemarket ECU I believe that the initial tune and setup should be done by a professional tuner.... however unlike any other aftermarket computer, once this is done you will never need to tweak the computer again.

Ahsmo

iTrader: (13)

I am sold.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Thanks for the detailed reply. Even though the 128 box software is not complete, i take it that it can be purchased now and upgraded later, which is fine (and expected as the software continues to evolve). What is the price for that unit?

It is my understanding that the targeting features of the FCON and Haltech also preclude the necessity of tweaking after the the initial tune (i.e. adaptive to environmental changes and I know at least the Haltech has VE based tuning, so...???).

And the traction control is present in the 48 box? (i.e. can it read CAN data for wheel speed differential etc and alter ignition or fuel?)

SilverSurfer03

Could you explain more about the dual widebands and why and when that is neccessary? Seems I would like to think thats the best thing but others on here in other posts have noted to use one

rrmedicx

iTrader: (54)

Well, since this is not an inline 6 or inline 4 cylinder engine, it would make sense to monitor both sides of the engine. In order to do that most effectively you can use 2 wideband gauges to keep a close watch on what is happening on each bank. I am upgrading to have 2 widebands, just for the little extra security.

Can the PROEFI monitor each side? Can it use the signal coming from the AEM widebands?

IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

The level 2 unit has dual internal controllers and will use either NTK or bosch wide band sensors.
This computer utilizes the latest knock detection strategies available (same as OEM). The key to this is two things. First it looks for a certain frequency on the sensor determined by your engine dimensions. Secondly and most importantly it looks for knock at the correct times. By this I mean there is only a very small window of opportunity for a cylinder to knock on its compression stroke. The computer monitors the sensor only during this time period and if knock is present it knows exactly which cylinder knocked and will retard that cylinder. By utilizing these strategies the computer can filter out what is knock and what is loose piston noise, open wastegate noise etc.

rrmedicx

iTrader: (54)

Question, I am currently running a UTEC set-up in my car. If I remove it and sell it to purchase the PRO-EFI. Can I install it and drive the car to the tuner shop with no base programming? What needs to be done for me to run the car (no boost)?

Will I need to splice it into the wideband signal to operate safely?

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

You might want to hold on to that UTEC till "after" although I believe if you put your stock injectors back in, you can run with no boost using the stock ECU...

SoundPerformance

Yes, the 128 unit can be purchased now and is $999 more than the 48 unit.


The HKS and Haltech do have O2 feedback control but NOT adaptive learning. The difference is that those units rely on the O2 sensor to make corrections but do not learn from this. They will continue to make the same mistakes time after time. The ProEFI unit will continually update its map so that those mistakes do not happen again just like the factory computer!!!

The 48 unit can do traction control based on rate of acceleration of the engine much like many drag race computers use. The 128 can do this as well as wheel speed differential trac control.

SoundPerformance

Dual widebands give you more precise control over each bank individually just like the factory does. It will adjust each bank independently. We have found that on the 350Z, both banks typically run identically so one o2 is probably fine.... but 2 is better than 1. Ideally you would want one for each cylinder but that is usually not practical on a street car although many race teams do this.

Now if you had a viper.... you would need 2 for sure as we always see a huge difference between banks!!

SoundPerformance

The 128 unit will do each bank independently.

Both units will work with an AEM wideband.

IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

good stuff Larr

rrmedicx

iTrader: (54)

Cool, then I will go ahead and purchase a second AEM wideband. In anticipation of this EMS. Awesome Thanks for the info.

SilverSurfer03

Thats what I thought just wanted to clarify as I got knocked for saying the same above. Thanks for the clarification. Also I would need which model for this? I would think the more tuning you had the more HP you can squeeze out. Or if there was an issue you would know which bank

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

ok thanks - that does help clear up the difference between the two units.

I think I understand what you mean by adaptive learning - in terms of updating the base map vs. updating something temporary like fuel trims???

I know for example with the Haltech, initially the idle AFR was off, but eventually it hit its target and on subsequent start ups, it was spot on. So in that case it did "learn" somehow... Not sure that's the same thing you're talking about, cause as far as I know the base map values don't change and the "trim" values that the Haltech uses to make adjustments as you say aren't accessible to the user. That said, they do appear to "stick" - as you would expect them to. Though with a power loss it might lose the trim adjustments (like a stock ECU "reset"). It sounds like you've got some kind of a more permanent "trim" map as a separate layer...

EDIT: one thing that worries me about this design, is that like OEM ECU's (like everyone complains about the stock ECU), it is very difficult to predict how it's going to change your base tune. Do you have any way a tuner can make it run specific timing or fuel values that won't "drift" if that is desired?

SilverSurfer03

You want adaptive learning. From every tuner out there its a highly suggest EMS issue. TO have an EMS adjust on its own you cant ask for more. And its all based on what you can call maps and from that it adjusts. Its best to use an excel sheet when tuning and then from that put that in to the EMS unit.

ncparamedic

iTrader: (49)

subscribing

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

[EDIT: removed response to SilverSurfer03, considering he has been banned for a number of reasons]

I think the design philosophy is a good one and this unit has the potential for a great product. But to blindly want something because someone claims that "all tuners out there" think its a good thing is, well, short-sighted. I'm just trying to get an understanding for how it does what it does and what the risks and benefits truly are. I think there is a lot of uncertainty that the adaptive software algorithms will work as advertised for all applications. To make things simple for the end user is tough for the developer. Hopefully the developers are up to the task. Advertising a product's features and providing evidence to support that they actually work are two separate things entirely. The latter does not yet exist (and yes I read that long Supra thread), but I'm sure time will tell... No matter what, kudos to the developers for going for the gold (well, at least for the "128 box") . We'll see if others follow and try to adopt similar design strategies. I know the Haltech developers are very active. Not sure about the FCON...

rrmedicx

iTrader: (54)

Not to get too far OT but can someone tell me precisely how the AEM wideband can hook up to the ProEFI to give the AFR signal? Do I tap into the AEM wiring? Any specifics would be appreciated.