my 2011 and Beyond! build thread.
I've heard about it from my local machinist.
You've read my newest link in the water injection calculator thread right?
the amount of water you need for cooling effect is very minimal. You just want to run enough to squelch all knock basically. So you add air and timing until things even out. You run very little. Like on my 1000hp setting, I'll be running approx 740cc off the pump... not sure what I'll be doing for nozzels but that's not very much considering thats calculated for an overkill of fuel flow on 1200cc injectors.
Water doesn't wash walls like alcohol does, or attack rings the same way. Besides that it cleans the valves and has been shown to have improved head/valve cooling.
Beyond that, some very very very badass 7-8 second domestics on the domestic boards swear by 100% water. (Speaking of which I need to hunt down a thread where they were switching to 100% water, the guys were going to post data logs etc a couple of days after i found the thread)
I mean binder you're a doctor right? (not sure if this is right)
You took chemistry and understand the whole latent energy deal. Water has the highest energy absorption of any liquid known to man by MILES, simply because it doesn't change chemical structure when it goes through phase changes. E85 can run plenty cool but nothing compares to water.
Especially when we look at how the molecules arrange when benzine and h2o are mixed in air/in the combustion chamber (they line up really nicely, not sure the exact number of benzine molecules are in a row then 1 h2o then a bunch of benzine) acts as a fantastic cold spot for heat to attack. I won't thread jack but it's awesome stuff, just need to set it up right.
You've read my newest link in the water injection calculator thread right?
the amount of water you need for cooling effect is very minimal. You just want to run enough to squelch all knock basically. So you add air and timing until things even out. You run very little. Like on my 1000hp setting, I'll be running approx 740cc off the pump... not sure what I'll be doing for nozzels but that's not very much considering thats calculated for an overkill of fuel flow on 1200cc injectors.
Water doesn't wash walls like alcohol does, or attack rings the same way. Besides that it cleans the valves and has been shown to have improved head/valve cooling.
Beyond that, some very very very badass 7-8 second domestics on the domestic boards swear by 100% water. (Speaking of which I need to hunt down a thread where they were switching to 100% water, the guys were going to post data logs etc a couple of days after i found the thread)
I mean binder you're a doctor right? (not sure if this is right)
You took chemistry and understand the whole latent energy deal. Water has the highest energy absorption of any liquid known to man by MILES, simply because it doesn't change chemical structure when it goes through phase changes. E85 can run plenty cool but nothing compares to water.
Especially when we look at how the molecules arrange when benzine and h2o are mixed in air/in the combustion chamber (they line up really nicely, not sure the exact number of benzine molecules are in a row then 1 h2o then a bunch of benzine) acts as a fantastic cold spot for heat to attack. I won't thread jack but it's awesome stuff, just need to set it up right.
Those guys running 7 second cars are running race gas as well. Not the same as running 91 octane with water injection. If I was running c16 then ya, water injection would be the choice for reducing temps. The point is here that we aren't running race fuel due to a car that is driven on the streets.
I think what you are forgetting is e85 will allow for cooling without excess volume needed to be added into the system. So if you are using say 750cc of fuel for fuel itself and it's e85 then that's all you have going into the cylinders. If you are using 93 octane and spraying say 500cc of water to get cooling you are now taking 750cc of fuel + 500cc of water which gives you 1200cc of liquid going into the combustion chamber. More liquids means higher chance of causing a misfire or washing the walls (or hydrolock).
I understand water will absorb way more energy then e85 but when you calculate out how much water has to be injected ON TOP of the fuel you are using then the volume being injected into the combustion chambers gets really high. The cooling from e85 is every molecule of fuel you use and not just what you add to the combustion. I would have to sit down in what little free time I have right now to calculate out the energy absorption of 1000cc of ethanol verses a pump+acceptable amount of water injection. I would probably be safe to say the shear volume of e85 verses the efficiency of water would make them close for total energy absorption but in the water injection you lack the octane. So then you say "well add meth" but then adding meth you either have to dump way more liquid into the chamber or reduce the water volume to accommodate which then lowers the heat absorption.
And never forget the extra component of a second pump, nozzle, etc that can always fail. Fuel pump fails no fuel engine dies. Water injection fails, fuel keeps flowing, car detonates, snaps rod or blows head gasket.
I like simple things.I'll have to check the water injection thread when I have time to sit and read. A few minutes a day is about all I can spare to get on here lately. It's crunch time on a new research paper I'm trying to publish.
Last edited by binder; Jul 24, 2012 at 06:33 PM.
I wrote up a long post for binder, but I'll post it in my other thread to avoid jacking the sh*t out of this thread.
When you get a chance binder check it out. I understand how busy a real life can get!
When you get a chance binder check it out. I understand how busy a real life can get!
I'll have to try to read the whole thing later this week. I had a minute and read the last page of it. I had some questions about the timing comments. I put them in that thread.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,859
Likes: 92
From: Cheston's
Dropping the car off at GearHeinz tomorrow for some work. The shop is doing me a favor and driving me to work after I drop my car off. Here are the things I'm having done.
-Install Mishimoto Aluminum Fan Shroud
-Install 2"x35' roll of Heat Reflective Tape
-Install Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors
-Oil change
-Install oil cooler and fabricate an air duct
-Fabricate oil catch can/power steering tank
-Replace boost lines with braided lines
-Install RTV on the intake manifold's cf velocity stacks
-Install quick release for front/rear bumpers
-Install APR CF front diffuser
-Install TopSecret CF rear diffuser
-Fix minor issues and organize wiring.
-Install Mishimoto Aluminum Fan Shroud
-Install 2"x35' roll of Heat Reflective Tape
-Install Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors
-Oil change
-Install oil cooler and fabricate an air duct
-Fabricate oil catch can/power steering tank
-Replace boost lines with braided lines
-Install RTV on the intake manifold's cf velocity stacks
-Install quick release for front/rear bumpers
-Install APR CF front diffuser
-Install TopSecret CF rear diffuser
-Fix minor issues and organize wiring.
if you have quick release for front bumper, then you'll need to have like Zeus clips underneath the car to get that APR front splitter off just as fast- the QR on the sides of the fenders is kinda moot since you have the 6 push in clips for the front and the whole undertray thing.... unless you're gonna go naked underneath the nose, that splitter will have to attach only to the front bumper for a quick release to work.
also. rear bumper.. the rear diffuser mounts to the underside of the car frame for the leading edge of the diffuser. you can QR the rear bumper, but again, you'd have to un bolt the diffuser support bars, unless you do away with them completely..
might as well do a QR for the door. and the side mirrors. and side skirts.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,859
Likes: 92
From: Cheston's
I'll be using some quick releases that are from airplanes or something. The undertray for the front bumper was ripped off many moons ago so I don't have to deal with that when i remove the bumper.The quick releases will help support the bumpers from sagging or flying off from the extreme down force my vanity license plates make. I know its a bit silly to have it for the rear considering the diffuser but all I can say is blow it up your ***. 
i think the official term is "push button quick release"
so i think there will be a receiver side (fender) with a mating tube (chuckle) and the bumper side would have that massive disc with the push button, with a shaft with two spring loaded ***** (snicker) and with the button in, holds it all in place, flush mount so no protrusions.. slick!
so i think there will be a receiver side (fender) with a mating tube (chuckle) and the bumper side would have that massive disc with the push button, with a shaft with two spring loaded ***** (snicker) and with the button in, holds it all in place, flush mount so no protrusions.. slick!
Last edited by Chebosto; Jul 25, 2012 at 08:58 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,859
Likes: 92
From: Cheston's
i can't mount it without blocking a big chunk of the intercooler and its 2grand...i'd rather spend that money on something else....my oil cooler will actually sit behind the intercooler and have a duct to blow cool air at it. suck my ****.
