Originally Posted by GaryM05

All I wanted to do was find out if I'd see some familiar faces this weekend at the track, and it's turned into another 'new vs. old' argument? Wow.

Everyone has their own set of opinions, and most have apparently already made up their minds as to where they stand. That's fine, and I don't pretend to be able to change that, but I can't help but post up my own opinion, even though I usually stay out of this argument.

The reasons for this disagreement ever happening have always confused me, as I think that most of those on both sides have more commonalities than differences, but those of us who have been on this board for awhile have heard most of this before, and it seems to me that both sides have their reasons for feeling as they do (although I really don't think that Darrel intended his post to be quite as inflammatory as it's been perceived):

- some of the 'old' guys think that the 350Z owners see their own cars as being 'the new hotness', and that they look down on the owners of older Z's as being 'old and busted' without recognizing that the new Z wouldn't exist without the long history established by the Z's that have come before

- some of the 'new' guys see the old ones as being a closed, social clique that doesn't want to admit that the world has moved on, and isn't interested in welcoming new members

Like any experience with stereotypes, the perceptions of some get unfairly assumed to be the attitude of the entire group.

My experience has been that the group of people within ZCCC that organizes and attends their track days is very open, and happy to have owners of new Z's show up, as they see it as a chance to meet new people who share a unique, common interest. However, this group is actually a very small percentage of the overall ZCCC membership, and isn't necessarily indicative of what you'll event at other types of ZCCC events (official meetings, car shows, winery tours, etc). In my opinion, this actually reflects what we've seen in our 350Z group, as those who come to the track days that dkmura organizes represent a very small percentage of those who come to other events, such as mountain drives, happy hours, etc. (not that there are dramatic differences of personality within the 350Z group, but there are certainly differences between those of us who are more into the track days, and those who are more interested in a dive-bombing canyon run, just to take one small example.) And something to keep in mind is that we've had several of the 240Z owners from ZCCC (including Darrel) become enthusiastic supporters of (and participants in) the track days that dkmura puts together, and I for one am happy that they come out for those events.

As to the value question of one track event vs another, everyone has to make the decision for themselves as to what their time and money are worth in pursuit of their hobbies, but a quick overview of some of the track time options out there might help put a ZCCC event into perspective:

- The largest sports car club in the country (SCCA) charges around $300 for a typical club racing weekend. That $150 per day gets you 3 track sessions per day (20 minute practice, 20 minute qualifying, 30 minute - 45 minute race)

- NASA charges between $200 and $300 per HPDE/race weekend. That $100 - $150 per day typically gets you 4 track session of 20 minutes each for HPDE/Time Trial, or a 20 minute practice, 20 minute qualifying , and 2 races of 20 - 40 minutes each for the race groups

- ZCCC charges between $45 and $65 per day, and gives about 4 20 - 25 minute sessions (for those like me who hate to do math, that's roughly the same amount of track time that NASA provides, at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost)

- A dkmura event costs anywhere from $35 (in the good old days of La Junta) to $150 for a full-on school at Pueblo, and offers a significant amount of track time (believe it or not I've never actually recorded the amount of track time that we get at one of these events). We all know that these are becoming less frequent and more involved to plan & coordinate as track availability is drying up, and track management is putting more restrictions on what they'll allow. We've been spoiled to have these events (which are pretty much unheard of anywhere else in the country), and it's an unintended side effect that they offer so much value for money that they can make even a $50 track day, offering almost an hour and a half of track time (which is more than it sounds like to those who have never done a track day), seem like a waste to some.

That's a much longer post than I planned on (and it's probably not even very coherent or useful), but since this is my thread, I figured I'd offer my opinion.

Smile everyone - it could be worse...we could all be driving single-generation econoboxes, but instead we're proud members of a sports-car line that has revolutionized & shaped the industry for almost 40 years. Not many others can say that.

Originally Posted by dkmura

Brian- Give me a call. I have some used Brembo Cobalt Friction GT-Sport pads that you could use. They still have plenty of material left and would see you through your ZCCC track day.

David Muramoto
Senior Editor
Nissan Sport Magazine
(303) 752-9777

Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111

well, are you going or not? if so, i'm still up for it, prejudices be damned.