CO ESPN Russel Racing Track Event, 9/20
Here is some information on the ESPN Russel Racing Track Event at PPIR. It is a forward from Mr. Bracken from ZCCC. There is also a “By the Way” note at the bottom for the BMW Track event on September 25th at Pueblo.
Both the events sound like a great opportunity because of the personal instruction. I think that this would be extremely beneficial for me, except for the cost. I will most likely not be attending, but I thought I would share the information if anyone else were interested.
David
Chris Morgan of ESPN Russell Racing PPIR Event has contacted me asking if
any members of the BMW Club are interested in attending this school for a
special price of $350 for the day, instead of the normal $595. See
http://www.espnrussellracing.com/
I've asked him, and he said he would offer "that rate to any CO car club
member as we are looking to get some new people into the programs". His
description:
"FYI our retail on this program is $595 since PPIR is so pricey and we keep
our event in the mid 30's on cars. But the introductory price at $350 for
club memebers is eligibile for all benefits, one on one instruction, the
prize giveaway (including a Sonoma formula school), catered lunch, etc. We
typically have run groups in the 8-12 range so quality track time is
maximized. Generally attendees get 3+ hours of track time with out much
traffic to hamper good laps."
Their site seems to allow you to sign up on-line, but I would contact Chris
first Chris Morgan <cmorgan@espnrussellracing.com>, and mention my name and
this offer.
I cannot personally endorse them, but they have been around for a long time,
and it does seem like a very good deal.
I don't have that many email addresses for people, so someone might pass
this on to others like PCA.
Gary Mayer
Driving School Chairman
RMC BMW CCA
303-618-6102
BTW: Our Fall BMW school is Saturday, September 25 at Pueblo. It is $140 for
BMW CCA members, $180 for non-members (which buys you a membership - our
insurance requires it). For those not familiar with our program, this is a
school where students alternate between classroom and track, with
instructors with all students on the track. Sorry, no convertibles. Call me
if you have any questions.
Both the events sound like a great opportunity because of the personal instruction. I think that this would be extremely beneficial for me, except for the cost. I will most likely not be attending, but I thought I would share the information if anyone else were interested.
David
Chris Morgan of ESPN Russell Racing PPIR Event has contacted me asking if
any members of the BMW Club are interested in attending this school for a
special price of $350 for the day, instead of the normal $595. See
http://www.espnrussellracing.com/
I've asked him, and he said he would offer "that rate to any CO car club
member as we are looking to get some new people into the programs". His
description:
"FYI our retail on this program is $595 since PPIR is so pricey and we keep
our event in the mid 30's on cars. But the introductory price at $350 for
club memebers is eligibile for all benefits, one on one instruction, the
prize giveaway (including a Sonoma formula school), catered lunch, etc. We
typically have run groups in the 8-12 range so quality track time is
maximized. Generally attendees get 3+ hours of track time with out much
traffic to hamper good laps."
Their site seems to allow you to sign up on-line, but I would contact Chris
first Chris Morgan <cmorgan@espnrussellracing.com>, and mention my name and
this offer.
I cannot personally endorse them, but they have been around for a long time,
and it does seem like a very good deal.
I don't have that many email addresses for people, so someone might pass
this on to others like PCA.
Gary Mayer
Driving School Chairman
RMC BMW CCA
303-618-6102
BTW: Our Fall BMW school is Saturday, September 25 at Pueblo. It is $140 for
BMW CCA members, $180 for non-members (which buys you a membership - our
insurance requires it). For those not familiar with our program, this is a
school where students alternate between classroom and track, with
instructors with all students on the track. Sorry, no convertibles. Call me
if you have any questions.
Wow, that's tempting. $350 for 3+ hours of track time at PPIR - AND instruction from the Jim Russell school?!?! Hmmm...I'll have to think about that one!
It may also depend on my brake pad situation. I don't think the rears that I have on there now can survive the SCCA Time Trials this weekend AND a track day on Monday. I may have to look into ordering some more ASAP.
It may also depend on my brake pad situation. I don't think the rears that I have on there now can survive the SCCA Time Trials this weekend AND a track day on Monday. I may have to look into ordering some more ASAP.
Should be more than 3 hours, acording to Chris. He said there will be three run groups of ten, and instruction/classes will be going on all day while each group is out on the track. Lunch is provided as well as all necessary equipment, but he said to bring your own helmet if you have one. I couldn't let this pass.
Will
Will
what are you guys with stock brakes doing for pads?
is the general consensus to use Hawk HP+ pads and take a slow lap or two to cool down when the brakes start to fade?
the terribly weak stock brake system is what has been keeping me out of recent events, and I'm itching to hit the track again. I just don't have the cash yet to buy the StopTech kit.
is the general consensus to use Hawk HP+ pads and take a slow lap or two to cool down when the brakes start to fade?
the terribly weak stock brake system is what has been keeping me out of recent events, and I'm itching to hit the track again. I just don't have the cash yet to buy the StopTech kit.
Originally posted by azrael
what are you guys with stock brakes doing for pads?
is the general consensus to use Hawk HP+ pads and take a slow lap or two to cool down when the brakes start to fade?
the terribly weak stock brake system is what has been keeping me out of recent events, and I'm itching to hit the track again. I just don't have the cash yet to buy the StopTech kit.
what are you guys with stock brakes doing for pads?
is the general consensus to use Hawk HP+ pads and take a slow lap or two to cool down when the brakes start to fade?
the terribly weak stock brake system is what has been keeping me out of recent events, and I'm itching to hit the track again. I just don't have the cash yet to buy the StopTech kit.
Before I got the Stoptech fronts, I tried everything from Axxis Ultimates to Carbotech Panther + and Panther XP8 on the stock fronts. I found that the Panthers worked well at first, but that the harder you push the car, the later in the day you go, and the less pad material that you have left, the more you have to pay attention to brake fade. There's just no way around that.
I'm not sure how long the Hawk HP+ would last (I have no experience with that compound,) but I don't think they make that in a rear fitment. So it might be a good pad to try up front, but you'll still need to come up with an answer for the rears.
After trying several compounds on the stock rears (Carbotech Panther +, Panther XP8, and EBC Redstuff Ceramic,) I've currently settled on the EBC Redstuff Ceramic back there (I'm currently using Panther XP8 on the front Stoptechs, but will likely be trying Cobalt Friction's Spec-VR once the XPs wear down.)
The EBC (and all other pads that I've tried) lasts for about 3 or 4 events on the rears before wearing away, and at $60 for a set, I can stomach that wear rate. The Carbotechs were over $100 per set for the rears and didn't really offer any noticeable heat- or wear-resistance benefit over the EBC compound.
One compound that I haven't tried for the rears is the Porterfield R4. This is a little pricier, and I don't know how long it would last, but it might be something to consider. Another note here is that Cobalt Friction has plans to release the GT-Sport and Spec-VR pads for the stock brakes early next year, which might be something else to keep in mind.
So my current thinking is to go as cheap as possible on the rears (in any compound that can stand higher-than-normal temperatures) and just be willing to replace them regularly.
Something else that gave me a dramatic improvement in the fade-resistance (but not really the wear resistance) of the rears was removing the dust shield from around the rotor. Just be aware if you do this, that it will affect your SCCA classification (I don't know if you Auto-X, but it's something to be aware of if you do.) Personally, I'm WAY more interested in track time that Auto-X'ing, so it was a no-brainer, and has ended up working well.
I don't think that not having the Brembos or a BBK should keep you from tracking your Z and learning how to better handle it...it just means that you have to pay more attention to your brakes during the day. Just be sure that you bed the pads in well when you put them in prior to any track event, and that you take a good brake-free cooldown lap at the end of each session and you should be able to get enough service out of the stock brakes with good, dedicated track pads and fluid to make a track event worth the time (at least for the first few sessions/events.)
Gary
Okay, I'm all signed up and ready to go! My new rear pads should be here tomorrow, and I'm really looking forward to this event. Is anyone other than Will and myself planning on going? If not, why not?
For $350, you get:
- tons of driving time in small run groups at a top-flight facility that makes the pavement at SCR look like the surface of the moon
- the chance to drive at an expensive, exclusive track that is ridiculously hard to get ANY track time at
- the use of top-quality garage space (no standing around on a cracked, broken paddock)
- tons of classroom and one-on-one instruction from some of the best in the business...the kind of stuff you'd get from dkmura if you had him all to yourself for an entire track day!
- THE DAY OFF FROM WORK!!!!!
Not to mention the fact that there's no mod you can buy for your Z for $350 that will give you the performance, enjoyment, and driving skill benefit that one day at an event like this can give you.
For $350, you get:
- tons of driving time in small run groups at a top-flight facility that makes the pavement at SCR look like the surface of the moon
- the chance to drive at an expensive, exclusive track that is ridiculously hard to get ANY track time at
- the use of top-quality garage space (no standing around on a cracked, broken paddock)
- tons of classroom and one-on-one instruction from some of the best in the business...the kind of stuff you'd get from dkmura if you had him all to yourself for an entire track day!
- THE DAY OFF FROM WORK!!!!!
Not to mention the fact that there's no mod you can buy for your Z for $350 that will give you the performance, enjoyment, and driving skill benefit that one day at an event like this can give you.
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Events are conspiring against me, and unforeseen mechanical problems with the Z are forcing me to withdraw from this event.
I'm really frustrated at not being able to make it tomorrow. I talked to Chris at ESPN Russell Racing, and he agreed to give me credit for a future event (apparently they'll be back to PPIR several times next year.) I'm just really disappointed about not being able to go tomorrow
I'm really frustrated at not being able to make it tomorrow. I talked to Chris at ESPN Russell Racing, and he agreed to give me credit for a future event (apparently they'll be back to PPIR several times next year.) I'm just really disappointed about not being able to go tomorrow
Gary, I'm sorry not to have seen you there. Thanks being considerate and letting me know before hand that you would be out, I really appreciated that. I must say, I was looking forward to your instruction as much as anyone else's. The worst of it is, you missed a hell of a great time.
The track:
For those like me who have never been there before, it is a whole world apart from PMI, SC, etc.. We each had professional garages that were perfectly level and cool to park the cars in. Tons of space to work on them if need be as well. No hot pavement to lay on there, just perfectly epoxied pit garages with all the amenities. Very nice for rolling into after some hot laps and letting the car cool down, and since it is absolutely level, no brakes needed to keep the car in place. The facilities are all top notch- great offices, meeting rooms, and observation decks. The course itself is pretty lame in my opinion. I had more fun driving around Second Creek, and everyone who had been there also agreed. There is tons of space for speed, and taking turn one at 100+ mph and holding it through is cool, but I found it boring. This led into a hairpin turn and exited into an even 180 degree right hander before going into some "s" curves and a sharp left back onto the oval straight. Not very technical. The line was pretty easy to learn for me, and by the end of the day I was doing well over 100 mph with the car inches from the wall. But the track itself was buttery smooth. Every turn on the road course section had the raised curbs, F1 style, and no bumps or patches to watch out for. Driving hard there was really nice, if somewhat simple.
The cars:
Lots. Here's a short list; two NSX's, two M3's, an M5, Z4, EVO, STi, Maserati TT, RX8, an S4, and an S8, a "plain" BMW 5 series and 3 series, a C5 vette, and a 900hp Supra running 37lbs (!) of boost. And my lonely 350Z. The Supra was wild, but... you can't make 300hp per Liter and be reliable, so every session out something broke. He'd then pull back into his garage space, fix it, and then go out the next session for two, three laps tops before something else gave. The smell of racing gas was nice though
The rest were mostly stock, two older BMW's ran R compounds, including the BMW CCA guy at SC last Sat. It was a hoot to listen and see them all out on the track, the 911's were the loudest, even more than the Supra.
The instructor's:
All very good people to talk to, one was just plain anoying though. She is also an instructor at the Bridgestone driving school and likes to point all the time at something. Every turn I had to try and see through her arm and fingers to stay on course. She was the first instructor I rode with after the initial classroom time discussing the line and simple vehicle dynamics. The other instructors were really great on explaining what I should do and when, they both really focused not on my car and the track so much, as actual driving basics. Like when to start unwinding the wheel and how much based on steering feedback and car attitude. This way, they said, I could become accustomed not to driving fast just in this car but recognize the effects of speed in any car, and find the limit fast. The last instructor races Busch cars and was my favorite. He told me my line and corner exits were really good, which had been the focus of my previous two instructors, but I had more track space to use on the oval. He told me to unwind it earlier coming onto the strait and hug the wall. "It's on my side so if you're too close I'll tell you." This was great, I had the car within inches at over 110 mph of a concrete barricade and loved it! I laso hit my fastest times with him.
The end:
I won!! OK, there wasn't a competition going on, but they had two big prizes to give away to the drivers with the most potential based on how well we adopted the techniques shown us. The instructors discussed it after all the sessions were finished while Chris was handing out schwag. I was the second pick and won a free scholarship to attend the Russell Karting School out in Sonoma, California. I can attend any date I want, and Kart, Gear, Track fees, and Instruction is all paid for! The first pick was simliar but for the formula cars instead of Karts. How cool is this?!?! So, great instruction from a myriad of different styles, a fast albeit boring track, and wonderful amenities made this a great bargain that I would recommend to anyone.
Will
The track:
For those like me who have never been there before, it is a whole world apart from PMI, SC, etc.. We each had professional garages that were perfectly level and cool to park the cars in. Tons of space to work on them if need be as well. No hot pavement to lay on there, just perfectly epoxied pit garages with all the amenities. Very nice for rolling into after some hot laps and letting the car cool down, and since it is absolutely level, no brakes needed to keep the car in place. The facilities are all top notch- great offices, meeting rooms, and observation decks. The course itself is pretty lame in my opinion. I had more fun driving around Second Creek, and everyone who had been there also agreed. There is tons of space for speed, and taking turn one at 100+ mph and holding it through is cool, but I found it boring. This led into a hairpin turn and exited into an even 180 degree right hander before going into some "s" curves and a sharp left back onto the oval straight. Not very technical. The line was pretty easy to learn for me, and by the end of the day I was doing well over 100 mph with the car inches from the wall. But the track itself was buttery smooth. Every turn on the road course section had the raised curbs, F1 style, and no bumps or patches to watch out for. Driving hard there was really nice, if somewhat simple.
The cars:
Lots. Here's a short list; two NSX's, two M3's, an M5, Z4, EVO, STi, Maserati TT, RX8, an S4, and an S8, a "plain" BMW 5 series and 3 series, a C5 vette, and a 900hp Supra running 37lbs (!) of boost. And my lonely 350Z. The Supra was wild, but... you can't make 300hp per Liter and be reliable, so every session out something broke. He'd then pull back into his garage space, fix it, and then go out the next session for two, three laps tops before something else gave. The smell of racing gas was nice though
The rest were mostly stock, two older BMW's ran R compounds, including the BMW CCA guy at SC last Sat. It was a hoot to listen and see them all out on the track, the 911's were the loudest, even more than the Supra.The instructor's:
All very good people to talk to, one was just plain anoying though. She is also an instructor at the Bridgestone driving school and likes to point all the time at something. Every turn I had to try and see through her arm and fingers to stay on course. She was the first instructor I rode with after the initial classroom time discussing the line and simple vehicle dynamics. The other instructors were really great on explaining what I should do and when, they both really focused not on my car and the track so much, as actual driving basics. Like when to start unwinding the wheel and how much based on steering feedback and car attitude. This way, they said, I could become accustomed not to driving fast just in this car but recognize the effects of speed in any car, and find the limit fast. The last instructor races Busch cars and was my favorite. He told me my line and corner exits were really good, which had been the focus of my previous two instructors, but I had more track space to use on the oval. He told me to unwind it earlier coming onto the strait and hug the wall. "It's on my side so if you're too close I'll tell you." This was great, I had the car within inches at over 110 mph of a concrete barricade and loved it! I laso hit my fastest times with him.
The end:
I won!! OK, there wasn't a competition going on, but they had two big prizes to give away to the drivers with the most potential based on how well we adopted the techniques shown us. The instructors discussed it after all the sessions were finished while Chris was handing out schwag. I was the second pick and won a free scholarship to attend the Russell Karting School out in Sonoma, California. I can attend any date I want, and Kart, Gear, Track fees, and Instruction is all paid for! The first pick was simliar but for the formula cars instead of Karts. How cool is this?!?! So, great instruction from a myriad of different styles, a fast albeit boring track, and wonderful amenities made this a great bargain that I would recommend to anyone.
Will
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,623
Likes: 1,392
From: Aurora, Colorado
Will- Nice write-up and sounds like you had a good time. I agree with your assessment of PPIR. Congratulations on your award- nice to see one of our Z group get rewarded for their driving!
You should check and see if you can pay a bit more and go to the Russell formula car school. IMO, you would definitely benefit more from it, than the kart school! Be sure to ask me about the track (formerly known as Sears Point, now renamed Infinion Raceway), when we see you next.
You should check and see if you can pay a bit more and go to the Russell formula car school. IMO, you would definitely benefit more from it, than the kart school! Be sure to ask me about the track (formerly known as Sears Point, now renamed Infinion Raceway), when we see you next.
Last edited by dkmura; Sep 22, 2004 at 09:16 PM.
Thanks for the detailed write-up, Will. Sounds like a great time, and makes me even more sorry I had to miss it. And congrats on winning the karting school...that should be a lot of fun. Did they tell you what they liked about your driving that put you over the rest of the class to win?
You'll have to pass on the lessons you learned from your Russell instructors at our next track day...it sounds like they covered a lot of detailed areas, and focused on some really good car control material.
I'm definitely looking forward to going to this event next year (or possibly even travelling to one at a different track, based on what you and others have said about the PPIR road course layout.)
You'll have to pass on the lessons you learned from your Russell instructors at our next track day...it sounds like they covered a lot of detailed areas, and focused on some really good car control material.
I'm definitely looking forward to going to this event next year (or possibly even travelling to one at a different track, based on what you and others have said about the PPIR road course layout.)
Thanks Dave and Gary,
The first instructor I had, the lady who insisted on pointing at everything, told me afterward that I had really good car control. (I almost laughed out loud remembering my spin at SC) She commented on our first lap when I took turn one faster than she expected me to and yelled, "whoa there tiger!" while placing a death grip on the "oh ****" bar atteched to the passenger door. I think there's still fingernail polish embedded in it. She kept telling me to look way ahead and pointing at markers two or three turns up the track, all while I try not to assissinate the cones marking the turn I'm currently in. After several laps she was apparently impressed that I was listening and looking so far down the track, while most students have a hard time with this. The last instructor I had told me that he noticed my shift points came earlier and earlier the closer I got to the wall and the less braking I did for the big first turn. He thought I did really well pulling to the wall while everyone else didn't get nearly close enough to it. Finally, I was told that while my heel and toe definately needs work, my lines were really great through the actual road course part, I was told by every instructor there I had the turn in and exit points "nailed" and was one of the few not afraid to screech the tires finding the limiting speed through the line.
The number one guy was really cool, he and I just started talking before the event began and kept track of each other the whole time out. He had a 911 convertible with some mods but no experience, kinda like me. He really did a great job learning to drive that car considering how bad he was at the begining. I only say bad because I could keep up and pass him at the begining despite his power and traction advantage. (285 rears and 255 fronts Potenza S-03) By the end of the day though, after a lot of laps with the "porche expert" instructor (Chris) I was getting passed by him! I never stood a chance no matter how hard I pushed the Z.
The instruction was good because it was all technique, easily demonstrated by these guy's ability to take any one of our rides and turn a blazing time in them. It really boiled down to focusing not on particular vehicle dynamics or track markers, but focusing on the universal behaviors a car experiences at the limit. I found the Z to understeer way more than I had at SC this time because I was paying attention to what the car was doing rather than where I was going. This made me more acutely aware of the behaviors the car experienced when the front started to break, or the rear starting to slide, and controlling these to pivot the car earlier or later in the turn, faster or slower, etc. For instance, learning when the brakes or throttle should be applied to help balance the car's attitude in a turn. Braking helps upset the rear going into a turn, trail braking, to pivot my understeering car better for a faster line through the corner. Conversly, gas only makes the understeer worse if poured on too early. Poured on too strong exiting the turn only brought my oversteer as the wheel is being straightened, keep the wheel turned however, and I would terminally understeer as the slip angle on the front wheels is still too much to hold the line and made worse by the car's yaw angle in the turn. Of course, eventually my understeer will scrub enough speed and the front wheel will gain more traction than the rear and the tail will start to come about with my torque keeping the rubber on boil. The whole experience was fun to just listen to these pro's explain what is happening and why, then go out and find the limit yourself and experiment with their advice about pouring on the throttle or tapping the brake to see what happens, and then moving on to the next corner to play some more with throttle, steering, and brakes to "dance" with the car. Only once did an instructor get a little concerned
The first instructor I had, the lady who insisted on pointing at everything, told me afterward that I had really good car control. (I almost laughed out loud remembering my spin at SC) She commented on our first lap when I took turn one faster than she expected me to and yelled, "whoa there tiger!" while placing a death grip on the "oh ****" bar atteched to the passenger door. I think there's still fingernail polish embedded in it. She kept telling me to look way ahead and pointing at markers two or three turns up the track, all while I try not to assissinate the cones marking the turn I'm currently in. After several laps she was apparently impressed that I was listening and looking so far down the track, while most students have a hard time with this. The last instructor I had told me that he noticed my shift points came earlier and earlier the closer I got to the wall and the less braking I did for the big first turn. He thought I did really well pulling to the wall while everyone else didn't get nearly close enough to it. Finally, I was told that while my heel and toe definately needs work, my lines were really great through the actual road course part, I was told by every instructor there I had the turn in and exit points "nailed" and was one of the few not afraid to screech the tires finding the limiting speed through the line.
The number one guy was really cool, he and I just started talking before the event began and kept track of each other the whole time out. He had a 911 convertible with some mods but no experience, kinda like me. He really did a great job learning to drive that car considering how bad he was at the begining. I only say bad because I could keep up and pass him at the begining despite his power and traction advantage. (285 rears and 255 fronts Potenza S-03) By the end of the day though, after a lot of laps with the "porche expert" instructor (Chris) I was getting passed by him! I never stood a chance no matter how hard I pushed the Z.
The instruction was good because it was all technique, easily demonstrated by these guy's ability to take any one of our rides and turn a blazing time in them. It really boiled down to focusing not on particular vehicle dynamics or track markers, but focusing on the universal behaviors a car experiences at the limit. I found the Z to understeer way more than I had at SC this time because I was paying attention to what the car was doing rather than where I was going. This made me more acutely aware of the behaviors the car experienced when the front started to break, or the rear starting to slide, and controlling these to pivot the car earlier or later in the turn, faster or slower, etc. For instance, learning when the brakes or throttle should be applied to help balance the car's attitude in a turn. Braking helps upset the rear going into a turn, trail braking, to pivot my understeering car better for a faster line through the corner. Conversly, gas only makes the understeer worse if poured on too early. Poured on too strong exiting the turn only brought my oversteer as the wheel is being straightened, keep the wheel turned however, and I would terminally understeer as the slip angle on the front wheels is still too much to hold the line and made worse by the car's yaw angle in the turn. Of course, eventually my understeer will scrub enough speed and the front wheel will gain more traction than the rear and the tail will start to come about with my torque keeping the rubber on boil. The whole experience was fun to just listen to these pro's explain what is happening and why, then go out and find the limit yourself and experiment with their advice about pouring on the throttle or tapping the brake to see what happens, and then moving on to the next corner to play some more with throttle, steering, and brakes to "dance" with the car. Only once did an instructor get a little concerned
Will: Great write up! But I wouldn't expect anything less from a M.E. and Journalism major on a road racing experience. You should have droven really crapy at the beginning of the day on purpose and drive like you normally do at the end of the day. Then you would have got first place.
David
David
Originally posted by Bottom
Will: Great write up! But I wouldn't expect anything less from a M.E. and Journalism major on a road racing experience. You should have droven really crapy at the beginning of the day on purpose and drive like you normally do at the end of the day. Then you would have got first place.
David
Will: Great write up! But I wouldn't expect anything less from a M.E. and Journalism major on a road racing experience. You should have droven really crapy at the beginning of the day on purpose and drive like you normally do at the end of the day. Then you would have got first place.
David
If I had known they were giving away a driving school pass in the beginning, I probably would have started by asking, "what's the clutch do again?" As far as me driving normal, none of the instructors really felt like taking a "spin" with me
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