we did get...

 

a group photo... like I always did before!

 

Glad to hear you guys had a good time. I am really pissed I couldn't make it. I put my helmet on and ran a few laps at Laguna Seca on GT3 though Cheap substitute. Porterfield is sending me new rear pads that are cut correctly, so the next track day can't come soon enough. The 13th? I'll be there.
Don, any more pics? I would love to see the action I missed.
Will

 

When I finish off the other roll, I'll post them too. Hopefully I'll get better shots next month.

 

Hey Will... we all missed you man, but we'll be reunited next month!!!

No action shots were taken on my digital, but I did get a couple on my still. This track is a little longer than the other ones I've been on, and our group was twice the size of any other one previous. Thus, we really didn't get going until 2pm and it was too much fun NOT to sit out a lap!!!

However, Garyson took his video camera with on a run in Davidson's redline. I hope he can get us a copy of that awesome lap before next month. huh Gary!!??!?!

Cheers Will...

 

This event was fantastic! I want to thank all of you for the detailed critiques, instruction and encouragement. You are a stellar group of people!

I liked all of the pre-track exercises, but I think the best learning event for me was riding along with David. You can describe all sorts of tricks and techniques off the track, but being in the ****-pit with an established driver was simply the best learning experience. I did my best to mimic what I had experienced in David’s car, and by the time we started the third run I noticed my confidence level shot up like a rocket. Even my little mishap between 6a and 6b didn’t slow me down. I wish the dealer had told me that the Lemans Z didn’t say on the track as well as the others ! Thanks again to all of you. I’m looking forward to the next event in November.

On a side note – help me spend my money! I have a 2004 Base trim, but what to do with it? Some of you mentioned upgrading my brake system, so give me some pointers on what to research and/or implement… Other suggestions for the occsional track day and weekend drives in the mountains?

Joel

 

Agreed. For a guy that's new to the track environment, you sure didn't look like it by the end of the day.

As far as spending your money, my philosophy is that you should drive your car until you recognize a limitation or aspect that you feel like you want to change. In other words, the 350Z has such high dynamic limits that you can do amazing things with the car even in nearly stock form. Last year I had the pleasure of riding along with David in his almost stock Z. I believe he had Eibach Pro-kit springs installed, but was otherwise stock, including tires. With that setup he was still much, much faster than those of us with bigger wheels and wider, better tires with a bigger and stickier contact patch.

With that said, I've definitely found the limits of the stock brake system. On my first track day, I faded the brakes and glazed my stock pads pretty badly. This time around I found out about the track day too late to be able to order better pads. If it looks like I can attend the November track day, I will probably order some porterfield R4 pads as dedicated track pads. Since I had to run on street pads again at this event, I decided to tone down my driving, and let the car take a break. The unfortunate downside is that I missed out on quite a few hot laps. Even when I was running the car, I felt myself accelerating slower and braking earlier and less in order to put a safety margin in and avoid cooking my pads. I just purchased a winter beater and I want to make sure I don't kill my fairly fresh street pads for no good reason. The result is that I felt I was much slower than I was at my first event, and I was a little disappointed by that.

I'm also looking into putting together some brake ducting in order to cool the rotors at speed. I haven't been able to come up with a nice solution that doesn't involve a lot of cutting, so I don't know if I'll end up being able to do it. If I do, I'll make sure to come out and show it off.

I've been long winded here, but I'll try and sum up my feelings about the areas of the car I'd like to improve.

1. Brakes. I covered this extensively above. I'm looking at a 13" front brake kit from Stoptech in the very near future. No more brake fade and a much, much better selection of pads.

2. Tires. The stock RE040s aren't terrible (much better than some OEM tires), but still not great. I have the Potenza S-03s and couldn't be happier with the tires. In order to save some cash, I might step down to Kumho MXs, which are 99% of the performance at 60% of the cost. David's Hankooks were also lower cost and seemed to be pretty good. (Everything looks good in his hands, though. )

3. Understeer in cornering. I'd like to get the 350Evo sway bars in order to neutralize the understeer and to allow the car to rotate some in the corner. The fact that I'm running the Nismo wheel setup and 245/275 staggered tires doesn't help the understeer, and I might select a smaller stagger next time around. While I'd love to get the sway bars now, in keeping with my above policy, I believe I'm going to run the car at the track a few more times before I change the sway bars. I'd like to experience the car at speed for a while longer until I feel that I am making the most of the existing setup. Trail braking definitely helps combat some of the understeer, and I'd like to master this technique.

Beyond that, the sky is the limit. I wouldn't mind cutting down on the body roll with some stiffer springs. Koni shocks would be nice to tone down the rebound damping.

I've said enough for now. I'll let others chime in. I typed a lot more than I intended to.

Matt

 

Short and sweet.

I had a great time too.

Brian

 

It was definitely a great time. Even the drive out there was sweet. Eleven Zs running down I-25 with all the colors except White and Chrome silver (Joe and Will). Joel did awesome for his first time out there. It’s a bummer that Brendan couldn’t take a couple laps. It’s always cool to see the Pros out there. This time I was able to pass someone, too bad it was the guy on his scooter. Thanks again Dave and Gary for setting up the day and the instruction.

I just swapped my brake pads back to stock. I found that I used them I little more than I expected. The fronts are still good and can probably do another track day, but the rears were down to the steel plate. Actually, only the outside pads were down to the plate. The inside pads still had material. The Redstuff pads that I had only came with one rear pad with a sensor. This was on the inside and the material is still about a 1/16” away from touching. My tires looked fine, I think that means that I wasn’t pushing the car to its limitations.

David

 

Peterputter- Thanks again for the great pics! We owe you a debt of gratitude for documenting these events.

Resolute and Bottom- Get those brakes ready for the next PMI track day (and David...that is one WORN pad! Count yourself fortunate if you disn't score or wear your discs badly...)!

Mudd- I'll be brief also- Glad you had FUN!

Jgrey- No need to spend a huge amount of money...yet. I'll repeat my suggestion of upgrading the brake fluid first. My personal choice is cheap, affordable and readily available: Valvoline Syntech DOT 4 (Nissan's OEM fluid is DOT 3) synthetic brake fluid. After that, I'd also consider upgrading other fluids (especially tranny and rear end) for durability.
Read those driving tips we handed out and get ready for more fun in November.

Azrael- Thanks for the kind remarks and a very rational set of recommendations!

At this point in my (driving and racing) career, it's good to give something back to the sport. It's wonderful to see the progress that we've made in the time that these events have been offered. Exploring the Z's limits is both fun and rewarding! Plus, if we can help anyone avoid an accident and/or develop an interest and appreciation in motorsports, then it is truly worthwhile.

 

I agree with what everyone has already said...another GREAT track day. Thanks again to David for putting it together, and to everyone who came out for making it as enjoyable as it was. This was by far the best attendance our group has had yet, and it continues to show that there is interest in doing these events.

I've always preferred Pueblo to the other tracks in the area, and every time out there with David I learn something new and enjoy the track that much more. It seems like PMI has so many more subtleties than other area tracks, and I think it rewards continued visits more than some of the others. Hopefully we'll be able to make continued use of it in the future. Unfortunately, I'll be unable to attend the event on November 13th, but it sounds like it will again have a great turnout and will be a lot of fun for those that go (and hopefully we'll be able to make another return visit soon thereafter!)

The video that I took of my ride with David is the very definition of 'shaky-cam,' as trying to hold a video camera steady while riding with David is NOT easy! But the video is generally watchable if it doesn't give you motion-sickness first. I'll see what I can do to get it encoded from film and hosted somewhere for download. I'm also going to see if I can't find a better solution for mounting a camera in the Z without breaking the bank...that mount that I borrowed from the Audi guys is a good, inexpensive option, but it's not QUITE flexible enough to give a right-side-up camera view in the Z from a good angle. For those that are interested, that device was purchased from http://store.yahoo.com/cinemasupplies/succupmoun.html, and it looks like they have a few other options for easily mounting a camera in (or even on) a car.

Will - Sorry you couldn't make it...too bad about Porterfield sending the wrong pad shape. You'll just have to make up for that lost time with more laps at the next event.

Joel - I agree with what others have already mentioned about brake upgrades. Fluid and pads will be the main factors to hold you back at first...beyond that, the sky's the limit! The main decision you'll face now is whether to try a compromise pad for street and track (like the Axxis Ultimate,) or to accept the maintenance overhead of using a true track compound at the track, and swapping back to street pads for non-track use. Beyond that, the amount that you push the car and the level to which you want to spend $ will decide how far to take the track-mod budget. Also, another thing to mention since we're talking about money is tires...these could easily be the biggest expense item after a few track days, so it might be a good idea to inspect your tires regularly and be prepared for the sticker shock of buying a new set when the time comes (although like Matt mentioned above, there are some good options out there for not much money, especially for the 17" wheels.)

Gary

 

It's getting towards the end of October and I'd like to get an idea of who is planning to be at PMI on 11/13. From previous comments I've got the following down as committed:

Shogun
Bottom
Kohlersc
Resolute
Jgray
Azrael
Peterputter

On the "don't know yet" category, I have:

Fizz2
Mudd
zz-notop

On the definite "injured reserve" list is:

GaryM05 (and I'm not sure who is going to put up those cones this time around! Maybe I'll have to draft Gary's better half. Oh, wait- JoAnn will be out there HITTING the cones when we get her out to PMI. LOL)

Please update your status (if needed). Also, any suggestions on what you'd like me to cover this time out will give me time to prep for it. I'll monitor this thread and post more details as we get into November.

 

Yes, I'm in...

If we have roughly the same group, I would like to continue forward from the exercises that we did last time. I'm certain that you have some variations or other tests that we could warm up on. Also, I'd like just a little bit more track time and possibly a run counterclockwise. If we get more track runs in, I would be happy to sit one out and take some photos of you guys while you're speeding around the track. Just a thought. The last bunch I took out there turned out nicely (motorcycles)if you care to look.

Joel

 

Joel-

Thanks for the feedback. You can bet that we'll try mixing in some variations on the HPDE exercises, but the basics (threshold braking, accident avoidance and slalom) are always good to work on and help us to adjust to new skills and higher speeds. We may have a slightly different group, so we'll still do a drive/walk around (maybe stop in some different areas) on the course to refresh everybody's recollections.

As for the counterclockwise run, let me use a Halloween analogy: it's a bit like a REAL haunted house! I would recommend it ONLY if we restrict it to cruising for a lap or two. Why? PMI was expressly designed for a clockwise configuration, with several run-off areas that will help in the event of brake fade, stuck throttle or plain brain fade. Unfortunately, this is not the case running it "backwards". There are several turns where the topography will result in a BIG SHUNT, with no runoff area or safety factors available. Spooky, to say the least!

We'd love to have some more pictures of the event, but I think we need to take some additional precautions. Let's talk about where and when this might take place and set you up in an area that will be both safe and provide some good shots at the same time. PMI is a high-speed track in sections and not a place to to be trifled with (ie. no more scooters doing reconnissance when the track goes hot! That WON'T happen again)....

BTW- have you been reading and practicing those heel-and-toe skills at home? Remember that this manuever is an essential driving skill at the track. It takes time and practice (consider it a homework assignment) to become second nature, but will be well-worth your attention!

 

Awesome shots of those 2-wheelers... I'll bet they were pretty stoked too, eh?

I'm sure everyone would LOVE to have their picture taken on the track, but only if we can get several of you as well... and that takes track time away from you, and from that someone else. I have done that in the past when plenty of track time presented itself, however if this next run at PMI goes anything like the last, track time will be something everyone is longing for at the end of the day.

Lack of track time has nothing to do with our instruction... oh contraire!!! We may never know, but the level of tutoring we received probably saved our BUTTS more than once that day... and the lessons we learned are something we ALL can use day-to-day.

By far, PMI is has been trickiest course I've been on this year with which to navigate and learn. There are many places where you may nail the apex, but get taken down by an off camber rolloff just after the turn. The coaching we get (any time) from David and Gary is invaluable. I can't wait to get back to receive more!

I constantly use my heal-toe, even in moderate to heavy traffic trying to perfect an 'instant and no-thought' employment... close, but still needs work!

 

Unfortunately, I won't be able to make the November date. Previous engagement with the better half, you know. I'd like to be there if just to get a little more experience with the track. I found it to be more difficult to learn than Second Creek. I don't claim to be an expert there but Second Creek just seemed to be easier to reach a level that allowed me to concentrate on learning than just surviving the track. More time will certainly help in that area and I will miss the practice.
Hope you guys have a great time. If things change I will be sure to let you know.

 

David, et al…

Just to clarify a few things… I’m content with a carbon copy of our last track day if that makes the most sense. I recall someone mentioned the counterclockwise run and other potential exercises that sounded like a lot of fun. So I’m just throwing out ideas as you requested.

If you had a look at the motorcycle photos and though “Man, Joel is sitting right on the track in a dangerous spot,” keep in mind that I was using a super mega-pixel camera with a tele-photo lens. I’m all about safety, so if I get instruction on better places to perch myself for some action shots, I’ll be listening.

Heel-Toe is more like Toe-Toe for me – I end up rolling my foot over and catching the accelerator with my little toe. I’ve done it successfully a few times, but the type of shoe you’re wearing makes a big difference. I’m having some trouble getting my heel over because I don’t have the mobility available for my leg/knee. I’m 6’2” tall and moving the seat and steering to there extreme positions still leaves my knee hitting the steering wheel way before I can get my heel over to the accelerator. I would like to talk with some of you about how you’re doing this technique or even ride along to watch your feet.

Joel

 

unfortunately I won't be able to make it. My tires are getting down pretty low, and my 2004 budget won't allow for any more expensive purchases. My registration will come due on the Z in November, and that's going to be pretty killer already.

I'm planning to replace the tires in early '05, so I'll be ready for any spring track days. Who knows, I might have the front StopTech kit by then. Looking forward to getting back out there.

 

Azrael,

I just replaced my front tires with Toyo T1-S 245/40/18 from a new online source that I will always go to from now on: onlinetires.com

Price breakdown:

157 a piece
16 delivery via FedEx
24 mount and balance (Big 'O' Tires)
------
$354

The nearest quote I could get from anyone local was $249 installed/piece. I saved $144 bucks!!!

Best of Luck!

 

Unfortunately I hate to say I am questionable on attending. My rears tires are pretty close to the indicators, my rear brake pads I was using for track days are toast, and I just dropped $400 on new plate registration. I figure for my car to be “track ready” I would have to spend about $450. I need to review my finances and if I can get everything on thing in time, but right now it looks like I won’t be going. I will post once I figure out if I will go or not.

David