Haltech Car won't start until removing key and replacing.
01-08-2013, 08:20 PM
#1
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Haltech Car won't start until removing key and replacing.
Hi Guys,
I've got the original Haltech Pro Harness and the car has been running fine for years. Suddenly on the highway the car stalled and wouldn't start. Got it towed home and checked CEL codes and had a P0340. Replaced the Bank 1 Cam angle sensor and the code has disappeared. Now when you try and start the car it will crank and crank and occasionally backfire. If you remove the key and reinsert it the car will then start. The car then drives perfectly fine.
It sounds like a NATS issue but I was reading somewhere that the Haltech disables NATS so I'm not sure. I have the NATS antenna on order so will be swapping it out regardless but was wondering if anyone else has had simular issues or has any ideas?
Thanks
Matt
I've got the original Haltech Pro Harness and the car has been running fine for years. Suddenly on the highway the car stalled and wouldn't start. Got it towed home and checked CEL codes and had a P0340. Replaced the Bank 1 Cam angle sensor and the code has disappeared. Now when you try and start the car it will crank and crank and occasionally backfire. If you remove the key and reinsert it the car will then start. The car then drives perfectly fine.
It sounds like a NATS issue but I was reading somewhere that the Haltech disables NATS so I'm not sure. I have the NATS antenna on order so will be swapping it out regardless but was wondering if anyone else has had simular issues or has any ideas?
Thanks
Matt
Last edited by ZEDCAR TT; 01-08-2013 at 08:22 PM.
01-09-2013, 12:37 AM
#2
Does the car have a aftermarket alarm?
Does the haltech miss counter keep increasing during crank? It should register ~1-2 on crank when it sync's
Is the NATS dash light illuminated?
My understanding is NATS is disabled with haltech. Easy check just get a key cut with no chip
If it happens each time try removing the haltech and do some tests for the next few days
Does the haltech miss counter keep increasing during crank? It should register ~1-2 on crank when it sync's
Is the NATS dash light illuminated?
My understanding is NATS is disabled with haltech. Easy check just get a key cut with no chip
If it happens each time try removing the haltech and do some tests for the next few days
01-09-2013, 11:59 AM
#3
NATS is technically not disabled, but you are bypassing it because the stock ECU isnt controlling fuel or timing.
Still sounds like a cam/crank sync issue. Did you replace the sensor with an OEM or aftermarket? I have similar issue but with different EMS.
Still sounds like a cam/crank sync issue. Did you replace the sensor with an OEM or aftermarket? I have similar issue but with different EMS.
01-09-2013, 03:42 PM
#4
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Thanks Guys.
There is no aftermarket alarm and the dash light isn't illuminated. I'll check the miss count tonight and see what registers. The cam sensor was replaced with a brand new OEM one.
It just seems funny that when it does start it will run great. Doesn't miss a beat even on full boost.
I was thinking of trying to start it without the Haltech but with 800cc injectors and BC2 cams I didn't think it would fire as it would be so rich.
Matt
There is no aftermarket alarm and the dash light isn't illuminated. I'll check the miss count tonight and see what registers. The cam sensor was replaced with a brand new OEM one.
It just seems funny that when it does start it will run great. Doesn't miss a beat even on full boost.
I was thinking of trying to start it without the Haltech but with 800cc injectors and BC2 cams I didn't think it would fire as it would be so rich.
Matt
Last edited by ZEDCAR TT; 01-09-2013 at 03:44 PM.
01-10-2013, 03:40 AM
#5
Probably not related however when I was running my haltech harness ecu I had no issues when starting the car. I replaced the ecu with the full haltech standalone and had massive issues with the car starting when cold. Put it back to the harness ecu and all worked fine. Haltech was puzzled why it would fire/sync on the piggy back but not on the standalone. Long story short they worked out that one of the cam sensors was not working correctly however no CEL codes where being thrown. I replaced the sensors and no more issues.
All i'm saying is that it still could be a sensor as a long shot.
With the OEM ecu I could start and idle the car with 750cc injectors and JWT C2 cams. Yes it ran pretty rich and I had to slightly modulate the throttle to keep it idling but it will start. You could always lower the pressure on your FPR. Just measure the height of the FPR adjustment screw with a caliper so you will be able to set it back to the original position. Will it be exact who knows but will be pretty close.
Good luck. Let us know how u go.
All i'm saying is that it still could be a sensor as a long shot.
With the OEM ecu I could start and idle the car with 750cc injectors and JWT C2 cams. Yes it ran pretty rich and I had to slightly modulate the throttle to keep it idling but it will start. You could always lower the pressure on your FPR. Just measure the height of the FPR adjustment screw with a caliper so you will be able to set it back to the original position. Will it be exact who knows but will be pretty close.
Good luck. Let us know how u go.
01-20-2013, 04:27 PM
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Probably not related however when I was running my haltech harness ecu I had no issues when starting the car. I replaced the ecu with the full haltech standalone and had massive issues with the car starting when cold. Put it back to the harness ecu and all worked fine. Haltech was puzzled why it would fire/sync on the piggy back but not on the standalone. Long story short they worked out that one of the cam sensors was not working correctly however no CEL codes where being thrown. I replaced the sensors and no more issues.
All i'm saying is that it still could be a sensor as a long shot.
With the OEM ecu I could start and idle the car with 750cc injectors and JWT C2 cams. Yes it ran pretty rich and I had to slightly modulate the throttle to keep it idling but it will start. You could always lower the pressure on your FPR. Just measure the height of the FPR adjustment screw with a caliper so you will be able to set it back to the original position. Will it be exact who knows but will be pretty close.
Good luck. Let us know how u go.
All i'm saying is that it still could be a sensor as a long shot.
With the OEM ecu I could start and idle the car with 750cc injectors and JWT C2 cams. Yes it ran pretty rich and I had to slightly modulate the throttle to keep it idling but it will start. You could always lower the pressure on your FPR. Just measure the height of the FPR adjustment screw with a caliper so you will be able to set it back to the original position. Will it be exact who knows but will be pretty close.
Good luck. Let us know how u go.
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01-22-2013, 11:29 AM
#8
Sounds like your "new" cam sensor was too close to camshaft? what thickness washer did you use since 1mm is very small.
i sure hope thats the deal with my crank sync issue as well. Car runs perfect, just doesnt sync until after a couple tries.
just got my new Nissan OEM sensors in the mail the other day. Just need to swap them out now.
i sure hope thats the deal with my crank sync issue as well. Car runs perfect, just doesnt sync until after a couple tries.
just got my new Nissan OEM sensors in the mail the other day. Just need to swap them out now.
Last edited by str8dum1; 01-22-2013 at 11:32 AM.
01-22-2013, 06:25 PM
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Sounds like your "new" cam sensor was too close to camshaft? what thickness washer did you use since 1mm is very small.
i sure hope thats the deal with my crank sync issue as well. Car runs perfect, just doesnt sync until after a couple tries.
just got my new Nissan OEM sensors in the mail the other day. Just need to swap them out now.
i sure hope thats the deal with my crank sync issue as well. Car runs perfect, just doesnt sync until after a couple tries.
just got my new Nissan OEM sensors in the mail the other day. Just need to swap them out now.
I would of thought it was a coincidence if I hadn't of had the sensor out about 20 times before. Definately a strange one!
01-23-2013, 02:40 PM
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Drivers side for me as I'm in Australia and it's a RHD car 
It's Bank 1 (23731-6J90B)
Now I've had a failure of one I'm going to replace the other side and the crank angle sensor. Be interesting to see if I have the same issue with Bank 2.
It's Bank 1 (23731-6J90B)
Now I've had a failure of one I'm going to replace the other side and the crank angle sensor. Be interesting to see if I have the same issue with Bank 2.
02-18-2013, 03:28 AM
#12
Matt, as per above post I replaced some sensors in trying to find out what was going on. Lately i started having misfire issues at high rpms and has been steadily getting worse. I had no idea what it was. Remembering this post and knowing that i replaced the CAS sensor I thought I would check to see if the same issue existed. Guess what I have a smiley face on my sensor. The flywheel timing ring just touches the sensor. The depth of the score is 0.25mm and the difference in sensor heights is just under a 1mm.
Photo evidence below. Hopefully replacing the sensor with the correct height will fix my issues.
Hope this helps others.
Photo evidence below. Hopefully replacing the sensor with the correct height will fix my issues.
Hope this helps others.
Last edited by MR RIZK; 02-18-2013 at 03:32 AM.
02-27-2013, 01:47 AM
#15
Quick update. I installed my original sensor and the misfire code has gone. Will need to remove sensor to ensure there is no contact. Could be my imagination but the car seemed to drive better with the other sensor 
Might install the new one with a washer and see what it drives like.
Might install the new one with a washer and see what it drives like.
08-12-2013, 05:03 PM
#18
@str8dum1
What does your miss counter report during crank? I found that when i replaced the bank 1 sensor with a new one it was too close and the car didn't start. Took me a while to find a correct washer to get the miss counter between 2-3 on each start. The funny thing is that bank 1 log trace is not as smooth as bank 2. This was only after i replaced the sensor. If I apply pressure to the sensor with my hand while the car is running the log flattens out and the reading is also more accurate. This tells me that my shim is still not 100% the correct size. The car starts, runs fine and target timing under load seems ok just the logs show it is not perfect.
When I asked JWT if others have reported issues with the sensors their reply was below. Unlike the BRZ it is very hard for use to measure.
That said a stock sensor measures 37.4 mm and the factory tries to keep the air gap average at about 1mm from car to car. If you are saying that you installed a sensor that is .9mm longer than what you took out then there is definitely a problem with the replacement sensor, as the signal will no longer trigger if the gap is less than .5 mm
Keep in mind that the Haltech only syncs off crank and bank 1 where the oem ecu syncs from crank and both banks. (this is what haltech thinks is the case). I was chasing my tail as every time I put the oem ecu back in the car it started fine with no CEL codes with the new sensor. I'm not sure what the ProEFI does.
It is also worth to note that I don't believe the Haltech PNP will trigger a CEL for a failing/failed cam sensor. The reason I say this is when my sensor died and the car did not start there was no reported errors. When I plugged the OEM ecu back in on first crank it reported bank 1 sensor failure. I have asked Haltech to confirm this but will need to chase them.
PS: I have also heard that the VQ35 can start with no crank sensor in the Nissan Elgrand. I assume limp mode. Never tested on the Z though
What does your miss counter report during crank? I found that when i replaced the bank 1 sensor with a new one it was too close and the car didn't start. Took me a while to find a correct washer to get the miss counter between 2-3 on each start. The funny thing is that bank 1 log trace is not as smooth as bank 2. This was only after i replaced the sensor. If I apply pressure to the sensor with my hand while the car is running the log flattens out and the reading is also more accurate. This tells me that my shim is still not 100% the correct size. The car starts, runs fine and target timing under load seems ok just the logs show it is not perfect.
When I asked JWT if others have reported issues with the sensors their reply was below. Unlike the BRZ it is very hard for use to measure.
That said a stock sensor measures 37.4 mm and the factory tries to keep the air gap average at about 1mm from car to car. If you are saying that you installed a sensor that is .9mm longer than what you took out then there is definitely a problem with the replacement sensor, as the signal will no longer trigger if the gap is less than .5 mm
Keep in mind that the Haltech only syncs off crank and bank 1 where the oem ecu syncs from crank and both banks. (this is what haltech thinks is the case). I was chasing my tail as every time I put the oem ecu back in the car it started fine with no CEL codes with the new sensor. I'm not sure what the ProEFI does.
It is also worth to note that I don't believe the Haltech PNP will trigger a CEL for a failing/failed cam sensor. The reason I say this is when my sensor died and the car did not start there was no reported errors. When I plugged the OEM ecu back in on first crank it reported bank 1 sensor failure. I have asked Haltech to confirm this but will need to chase them.
PS: I have also heard that the VQ35 can start with no crank sensor in the Nissan Elgrand. I assume limp mode. Never tested on the Z though
Last edited by MR RIZK; 08-12-2013 at 05:14 PM.
08-14-2013, 11:59 AM
#19
ya the proefi only uses the bank 1 cam sensor. My cam2 was very noisy and when I pulled my valve covers was definitely further away from the cam than cam1. As best as I could tell with a feeler gauge, i moved the cam2 sensor in closer. Now my cam2 log is still noisy but near as much.
1mm air gap is super small. Without the motor out of the car its really hard to measure. I can only get numbers relative to each other.
That said, i dont think my cam1 is less than 1mm away. That said, once the car starts once, it will restart and sync with no issues.
Car started 100% on the stock ecu as well. Its definitely the aftermarket sync strategies which are inferior.
I've bought 2 pairs of sensors and all measure the same as fair as i can remember with my digital calipers
1mm air gap is super small. Without the motor out of the car its really hard to measure. I can only get numbers relative to each other.
That said, i dont think my cam1 is less than 1mm away. That said, once the car starts once, it will restart and sync with no issues.
Car started 100% on the stock ecu as well. Its definitely the aftermarket sync strategies which are inferior.
I've bought 2 pairs of sensors and all measure the same as fair as i can remember with my digital calipers
Last edited by str8dum1; 08-14-2013 at 12:01 PM.
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