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Old 07-01-2008, 05:52 AM   #121
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wow....I've got to say this. If a V8 was even talked about and or built for any nissan vehicle's i believe it would of starting inside the GTR. Then perhaps moved down the line of cars. Otherwise if NISSAN would want to compete against the new Toyota Supra coming out i don't think a V8's going to be cutting it. Perhaps in the 1900's it would of been the thing to do if the japs were up to par on their designs and what not like the American v8's were. But they took what knowledge was given and design engines that are more efficient/powerful at a smaller cc to compensate. If you really think IDT that Nissan wants to go out of biz due to a v8 that probably only enthusiasts or people who don't mind the hole int heir pockets will buy then so be it. Otherwise get with it and come to the realizeation that to compete with the market they are going to have to keep it a 6. BTW Toyota is the # 1 sold car in the world so unless they are going V8 no one in JAPAN is!!!

(also think the supra will be HYBRID)

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Old 07-01-2008, 06:23 AM   #122
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O.K. Flame suit on....

The talk WAS that the next Supra was to sport a V6 outputting about 350 HP in the lower model, while a V8 would power the top of the line Supra. Are those talks dead? Is talk of a Supra at all dead??

I also thought I heard talk of the Infiniti halo car taking the GTR's underpinnings and chasis, but using a V8 versus the TT6. Are those talks dead?

Regardless, I still cannot see Nissan using a V8 in the Z. There was talk that with the new CAFE standards, the V6 could be in danger..... To me it just would not make sense to drop a V8 in, but I have not done extensive martket research. I am not paid for that; now if Nissan wants to they could hire me on....... = )
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:32 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Venture
wow....I've got to say this. If a V8 was even talked about and or built for any nissan vehicle's i believe it would of starting inside the GTR. Then perhaps moved down the line of cars. Otherwise if NISSAN would want to compete against the new Toyota Supra coming out i don't think a V8's going to be cutting it. Perhaps in the 1900's it would of been the thing to do if the japs were up to par on their designs and what not like the American v8's were. But they took what knowledge was given and design engines that are more efficient/powerful at a smaller cc to compensate. If you really think IDT that Nissan wants to go out of biz due to a v8 that probably only enthusiasts or people who don't mind the hole int heir pockets will buy then so be it. Otherwise get with it and come to the realizeation that to compete with the market they are going to have to keep it a 6. BTW Toyota is the # 1 sold car in the world so unless they are going V8 no one in JAPAN is!!!
I'm not sure I understand your point. I see two fair points and will try to address each.

The first point you make is that putting a V8 in the Z when the GTR has a twin turbo V6 would be considered a marketing problem from the perspective of Nissan. I disagree and here is why: the GTR is marketed as a technicalogical marvel with a twin turbo, intercooled engine with plasma coated bores, etc., etc. I really think that the Z is more of a simple brawler: horsepower and rear-wheel drive. I very much doubt that a larger engine is a marketing problem, whether by cylinder count or displacement. Now if that V8 made more power, that's another story. But that's the beauty of the idea of a V8; it fits perfectly within the gap left by the twin turbo GTR. The V8 Z would slot right between the 330hp 370Z and 480hp GTR. When a buyer goes into the showroom, they would see the two sitting side by side and it would be very apparent the differece between the two models on price, power, and what market they are intended for.

The second point you make seems rooted in the notion that no one else is using V8s, especially Toyota. This is simply not true. The Soarer (SC in the States) uses a 4.3L 3UZ-FE V8. Also, Toyota is the number one from selling econo-cars, which doesn't validate them being the gold standard.

Now these are good points, and I'm all for open conversation. I understand that a lot of people take offense to me posting points and counter points. If this offends you in any way, just put me on your ignore list after calling me a few names and all is good.
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:39 AM   #124
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I wasnt talking about an SUV or PICKUP truck....but if you look at the SALES of both these type of vehicles not many to none are being sold, and if you go to trade in one you actually have to pay them to take it back. In todays world unless it's strictly needed all them people who bought a big SUV V8 are suffering now a days. But we can leave that type of vehicle to the SUV forum and get back into the Z (sport) style of car's. Simply Put it would be a waste for a V8. Todays thing is save the planet...a V8 wont help do that!
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:44 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Venture
I wasnt talking about an SUV or PICKUP truck....but if you look at the SALES of both these type of vehicles not many to none are being sold, and if you go to trade in one you actually have to pay them to take it back. In todays world unless it's strictly needed all them people who bought a big SUV V8 are suffering now a days. But we can leave that type of vehicle to the SUV forum and get back into the Z (sport) style of car's. Simply Put it would be a waste for a V8. Todays thing is save the planet...a V8 wont help do that!
Amen brother!
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:50 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endgame
O.K. Flame suit on....

The talk WAS that the next Supra was to sport a V6 outputting about 350 HP in the lower model, while a V8 would power the top of the line Supra. Are those talks dead? Is talk of a Supra at all dead??

I also thought I heard talk of the Infiniti halo car taking the GTR's underpinnings and chasis, but using a V8 versus the TT6. Are those talks dead?

Regardless, I still cannot see Nissan using a V8 in the Z. There was talk that with the new CAFE standards, the V6 could be in danger..... To me it just would not make sense to drop a V8 in, but I have not done extensive martket research. I am not paid for that; now if Nissan wants to they could hire me on....... = )
Suiting up is a great idea.

Awesome point, and likely the strongest against the V8 Z is the CAFE standards. Here's why I don't think it's as significant of a barrier to entry. CAFE standards are from the corporate average. The 500Z (or whatever) would sell in the very low thousands. This very low number of relative gas guzzlers is easy to offset by an increase in the fuel efficiency of the rest of the product line. The Versa is already lifting the CAFE numbers for Nissan. The Cube is likely to make it's way over here too. If they sell in larger numbers proportionally to the Z (which they do), then the offset should take care of this issue.
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:53 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Venture
I wasnt talking about an SUV or PICKUP truck....but if you look at the SALES of both these type of vehicles not many to none are being sold, and if you go to trade in one you actually have to pay them to take it back. In todays world unless it's strictly needed all them people who bought a big SUV V8 are suffering now a days. But we can leave that type of vehicle to the SUV forum and get back into the Z (sport) style of car's. Simply Put it would be a waste for a V8. Todays thing is save the planet...a V8 wont help do that!
Dr. Venture, did I misunderstand something? I wasn't talking about SUV or truck sales either.

Venture Bros. is an awesome show by the way and everyone that grew up on Johnny Quest type shows should watch it.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:06 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsport1
Oh yes. This thread looks so much better now that IDT idiot is on my ignore list. I highly recommend it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350z_racer05
arguing with ITD, is like arguing with a 6 year old, theres just no point. You would have a more intelligent conversation talking to a wall. and yes, it is a hell of alot better when he's on your ignore list
I don't know. I tried it and it didn't seem to make that much of a difference. That douche is still showing up with all his childish remarks.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:07 AM   #129
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If gas were not this expensive i believe a v8 would be ok, but since today it's skyrocketing i dont think a v8's worth it!! Unless they sold it in the Middle Eastern countries where gas is like 46 cents a gal. DAMN!!!

The Supra was going to sport a v8 as a higher end model, but then they talked about 1/2 engine 1/2 hybrid or brush less electric motor. If you guys take a look at Tesla's car. http://www.teslamotors.com/ This is the future!

And damn straight Venture Bro's is an amazing show. BTW i'll type you blue in the finger's i wont call you names or ignore you. I love debating!

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Old 07-01-2008, 07:32 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Venture
If gas were not this expensive i believe a v8 would be ok, but since today it's skyrocketing i dont think a v8's worth it!! Unless they sold it in the Middle Eastern countries where gas is like 46 cents a gal. DAMN!!!

The Supra was going to sport a v8 as a higher end model, but then they talked about 1/2 engine 1/2 hybrid or brush less electric motor. If you guys take a look at Tesla's car. http://www.teslamotors.com/ This is the future!

And damn straight Venture Bro's is an amazing show. BTW i'll type you blue in the finger's i wont call you names or ignore you. I love debating!
Your point about gas prices is very valid. However, consider this: driving 15,000 miles and combined 20mpg you are buying 750 gallons. At $4 a gallon you will spend $3,000 in gas. For a V6 with combined 23mpg (which I'd imagine the 370Z will get), you are paying $2608. That's less than $400/year to drive the V8. Not a big deal for someone purchasing a ~40K sportscar.

Even though this is true, if Nissan thinks this the market for a V8 Z is concerned about the price of gas, then they'll decide against it and won't make it.

Also, I agree that Tesla is onto something. I imagine EREVs like the Volt run off of non-oil based fuel will defineatly be the solution to oil dependence.
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:13 AM   #131
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You have to incorporate the facts that people don't do a constant driving like you are referring to. Some Do a bumper to bumper, stop and go, with the A/C on wasting more gas. Also depends how the car will run due to weather changes and it's effects as well. Their testing is like a CAR & DRIVER mag stating the all there Tests of a car with that driver who drove it. Someone can either do better or worse depending. So i don't believe those MPG rates only due to the fact that we all drive different, and in different places, with different loads of the engine and so on. In other words depending on how one person drives the car will vary in how much gas it will use. All im saying as probably most of the forum is as well is to me a v8 will not be worth it, or i'd drive my Pantera Detomaso around all day long!
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:20 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Venture
You have to incorporate the facts that people don't do a constant driving like you are referring to. Some Do a bumper to bumper, stop and go, with the A/C on wasting more gas. Also depends how the car will run due to weather changes and it's effects as well. Their testing is like a CAR & DRIVER mag stating the all there Tests of a car with that driver who drove it. Someone can either do better or worse depending. So i don't believe those MPG rates only due to the fact that we all drive different, and in different places, with different loads of the engine and so on. In other words depending on how one person drives the car will vary in how much gas it will use. All im saying as probably most of the forum is as well is to me a v8 will not be worth it, or i'd drive my Pantera Detomaso around all day long!
I think you are right that some will say that it's not worth it. And definately, driving habits and routes should be taken into consideration. I used the average to make the case. You can say you would do better or worse, drive less or more, but I'm trying to cover the most common experience.

I would still jump on a V8 in today's market. Other's may reach a point at which it is not worth it long before me, but ~$400 difference in gas per year isn't enough to change my mind (so make it already Nissan! Please?).

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Old 07-01-2008, 09:10 AM   #133
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ITD....it is wonderful that you are a rich human being! On a more personal level a V8 is too much for me. I love the 6 not only for performance but also its cheap in the pocket for maintenance as well. If they are using iridium $28 plugs i rather get 6 or even 4 for that matter...but you can see where im going with this. For economical purposes a 4 and a 6 in 2008 is more worth it.

On another note do you remember that one guy who tripped from CALI to WASH. DC on 22 gallons of water in his hydro engine? W/e happened to that guy? Government either took em out or he's 30 stories below area 51 working for the USA!!


Anyway im done...we all have our opinions so lets just see what NISSAN will do in the long run.
Was a Pleasure!

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Old 07-01-2008, 09:34 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Venture
ITD....it is wonderful that you are a rich human being! On a more personal level a V8 is too much for me. I love the 6 not only for performance but also its cheap in the pocket for maintenance as well. If they are using iridium $28 plugs i rather get 6 or even 4 for that matter...but you can see where im going with this. For economical purposes a 4 and a 6 in 2008 is more worth it.

On another note do you remember that one guy who tripped from CALI to WASH. DC on 22 gallons of water in his hydro engine? W/e happened to that guy? Government either took em out or he's 30 stories below area 51 working for the USA!!


Anyway im done...we all have our opinions so lets just see what NISSAN will do in the long run.
Was a Pleasure!
Yeah, it all comes down to priorities. The question is whether Nissan thinks the market can support one. I think it can. They may come to a different conclusion. It could come out and be a low seller and I'd be wrong (but I don't think that would happen), or it could not come out and Nissan could lose a lot of potential sales if I'm right. Whatever they decide, I'd be very excited to see the option. Let us choose which one we want.

I wanted to mention the hydro thing for a second. All these systems that 'run on water' are gimmicks. Here's why: nothing is free and even if it were, there are efficiency losses.

So how do you run a combustion engine on hydrogen? You first separate the hydrogen from oxygen. What do you use to do that? Electricity, and quite a bit of it. So what you will end up doing is using a ton of electricity to separate the hydrogen and oxygen, then recombine them (using energy) to then produce energy in the combustion chamber. Each step loses energy due to the conversion efficiency. Then there's the novel idea of instead, just using all that electricity to drive the wheels and cutting out the middle-man.

Oh, and thanks, Dr. Venture for not being a over-reacting, cliched Interweb poster. Good discussion.

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Old 07-01-2008, 10:02 AM   #135
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:08 AM   #136
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Quote:
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Quote:
PREVIEW OF THE FIFTH GENERATION 2010 TOYOTA SUPRA

Is there ever going to be a fifth generation of the Supra? Various reports have been announcing the coming of a mkV Supra first in 2006, then in 2008 (predicted to be powered by a naturally aspirated 3.5 liter V-6 2GR-FSE from GS350 Lexus, all-aluminum powerplant and expected to produce 350 bhp at 7000 rpm and about 290 lb-ft of torque at 5000 rpm, curb weight of about 3200 lb), and more recently the 2010 production year model rumored to come with the choice of a 450 hp V8 or a 3.7-liter 350 hp V6 and pricing ranging from $40,000 to $50,000. For now we have to just wait and see... below in red is an artist's rendering of a 2010 Supra as reported by a japanese Best Cars magazine.


Good find.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:14 AM   #137
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Well my point here is that if toyo is considering an v8 option why not nissan...??
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:40 AM   #138
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thats a artists rendering if you read it right, and it will look more futuristic according to my buddy who works for Toyota of America. But look at America these days. It's almost as if were going back into the recession. And you think in todays market people can afford these new cars? The American Dollar is doing so bad that it won't even be feasible to buy a new car regardless of a new v8 coming out. I just don't look at the market of car buying. you have to take peoples lives and daily work habits into consideration as well. You may be Rich and not worry about what tomorrow brings as for a rainy day i rather save in case **** happens ya know? If a v8 comes out then of course my internal child would want it with the more power it may bring to the table, but unless our economy comes back up to par as it were few years ago b4 911 i don't think it will be worth it. BTW European countries get taxed for bigger engines well i know Greece does, so a v8 in the Euro world probably wont be to good for the Jap's. Only the Americans and Australians Think big and love the V8's!

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Old 07-01-2008, 11:11 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Venture
thats a artists rendering if you read it right, and it will look more futuristic according to my buddy who works for Toyota of America.
Right, I was just reposting the article. Most seem to think it will follow their FT-HS concept seen here:
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:22 PM   #140
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I do agree with you on terms on the current money situation right now but it will not last forever and things will bounce back soon enough like they always do... Personally I think it's a good wake up call for people to start watching there spending habbits and stop living over their means.. Either way v6 or v8 i'm really looking forward to building another twin turbo setup..
brooke

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