Guess who I am. I will give you a hint..

H&R wheel studs, area code 707.

I am really pi$$ed but I know it's not your guys' fault.

Yes believe it or not those 60mm Nismo studs are wrong too.

The Nismo studs have approx. 26 splines all around.

The correct ones of which I still only have 9 of, have have approx 32 splines.

Now I have 29 wheels studs that are of no use to me, with a total of 4 different types, incuding the original wrong (short) stud. I will give you a call Saturday and hopefully one of you two will be in to fix this problem. I know your return policy doesn't allow refunds but only exchanges or credit.

I am at the point where the last thing I want to see is a wheel spacer or worse a wheel stud. I almost threw them through my window.

Please let me return the entire wheel spacers, with all factory studs that came with it, plus the 9 that H&R sent me as replacements, PLUS the Nismo studs and either credit my card back in full or send me out a whole entire new spacer kit.

I would really like to have the spacers that I wanted in the first place but this has gone beyond a nightmare at this point.

 

The 60mm Wheel studs we sent you are 12x1.25mm thread pitch and 14.3mm knurl diameter.

Reguardless of how many splines, as long as the knurl is 14.3mm they will fit securely in the hub...

The part number on the box of the hub bolts should be 40222-RS045

The NISMO Bolts you have are the correct ones...

You must pull them into your wheel hubs...

The KNURL of the NISMO Studs is actually longer then the H&R ones but they both fit just fine...

 

You are more then welcome to return the spacers...

but now that you have the NISMO hub bolts, that is everything you need so I dont see what the problem is?

H&R put one bolt in of the wrong size.
We had H&R send you a new set of bolts from what I understand.
I guess Andy sent you a new set of hub bolts pack of 10 that all match what you NEED for your 350Z / G35.

 

Yes in the original wheel spacer package, one of the bolts was totaly wrong, not even close. The other 9 in the kit were absolutly perfect, even better actually than the Nismo's I paid for out of my own pocket, in an attempt to avoid a nightmare. They are better than the Nismo's because they have more bite (longer splines than the Nismo's). Those 9 looked exactlly like the factory part the dealer showed me, just 15mm longer, which was perfect.

The 9 that H&R sent as replacemnets have splines that are about 1/16" shorter than the original kit supplied splines. The splines do not run the full length of the section of the stud, that passes through the hub. If lugs are suppose to be torqued to about 90 lbs, I would not feel comfortable at all torquing on those beyond 50-60 lbs. because they look like they would strip out compaired to the others that came with the kit.

Also with the Nismo bolts, the threaded part/section/post of the stud that will extend beyond the outerside of the hubs surface area are about 4-5 mm longer than the other bolts that came with the kit as the ones H&R sent me. Stock rears are 45mm and the ones in the kit were exactlly that PLUS the additional 15 mm. The Nismo's are 4-5mm longer and I'm afraid the lugs may bottom out on the extra 4-5mm.

Also the splines on the Nismo's are clearly spaced further apart from each other. The Nismo splines do not look like the factory bolt or the other GOOD bolts that came with the kit.

Long story short, In an emergency sitituation I could probably temporarly use one of those replacement studs H&R sent but there is no way I am going to use 9 studs that I know are 100% correct and one stud that is inferior to the other 9 and as well also looks different.

I just feel that on a $30,000 car I shouldn't need to drive around knowing in the back of my mind, that there is one bolt that is not as good or strong as the rest.

From the start I wanted to retutn the whole kit but you guys wanted to try to work out another way. Well this is the 3rd strike now and I'm done with the spacers. I want to return the whole mess and I will order the kit from a local speed shop.

Like I say I'm not mad at you guys (yet) but H&R. If I have to pay to ship this back and pay a restocking fee and or don't get my card credited back, that will change fast.

Sorry if I sound like I'm on the r&g LOL

 

Oh $HIT wait a second here... I hate this part

If I'm right this time, I feel like a freaking dumb a$$, which I'm somewhat use to. I have to admit I have never actually swapped wheels studs out before.

There are no splines on the insides of the hub holes are there?

The insides of the holes are smooth???

I was under the impression that the hub holes have splines as well and that they had to mesh perfectly with the studs splines and that this interaction is what prevents the studs from turning/spinning freely when tightening them down.

The only purpose of the splines on the studs is so that they get mashed into a pulp to create enough of a wedging effect/friction, until they are torqued enough to get the heads flush with the backside of the hub, then the friction of the wheel, pressing against the spacer, pressing against hub, takes over and takes the brunt of the rest of the torqing process and that's how you can torque them so hard?

The splines are kind of the equivalent of having a second hand, holding a wrench on a bolt head on the backside of the hub until it is fairly snug, as well as keeps them straight and aligned when you remove the wheels, which is why they don't fall out.

In other words there are no splines that have to mesh together??? The splines are meant to be squished once and therfore should never be reused???

If this is correct, then the replacements that H&R sent, though different in spline length, should work ok.

I installed a steering damper on a FZR once and had to drill into the frame, which scared the crap outta me and thought I drilled it too big and freaked out that I just F%$ed my frame for life but I had never used a Riv Nut type setup before and once I started to tighten it it all made sense. Though not exactllythe same both used splines that got mashed to hold said bolt in place.

If this is correct I will just send the Nismo bolts back.

 

You are right, the holes in the hub are smooth. The splines are used to grip the hub so that the stud does not move. It is a force fit. Once it is in, you will have to hammer it to get it back out. If the hub/stud connection was like you originally thought, the studs would fall out when you take the lug nut off. Seems to me that you got the right materials to do the job correctly.

 

yes the holes are smooth...

The NISMO Hub bolts are made exactly to Factory Spec just longer.

The H&R Hub Bolts have the same size knurl diameter but different spine look to them...

I am on my way to the office now to get something... Ill take a side by side picture of a NISMO Hub bolt with a Factory hub bolt to a H&R hub bolt..

 

Here is an image of 4 different hub bolts...

First hub bolt is a factory hub bolt for a 350Z (The visable part of the bolt is the same front and rear, but front bolts are about 10mm longer then the rear, the Length of the bolt has nothing to do with the Knurl of the hub bolt). This bolt is 12x1.25mm thread size / pitch and 14.3mm knurl diameter.

Second hub bolt is a NISMO hub bolt. To factory spec but longer hub lenth. 12.1.25mm thread size / pitch and 14.3mm knurl diameter.

Third hub bolt is a H&R hub bolt. 12x1.25mm thread size / pitch and 14.3mm knurl diameter.

Fourth hub bolt is a NISMO hub bolt (FOR A DIFFERENT CAR) 12x1.25mm thread size / pitch and 13.0mm knurl diameter.



Here is another image of a factory hub bolt next to 2 differen tH&R hub bolts I found from other kits we have.

Each bolt is 12x1.25mm thread size / pitch
Each bolt is 14.3mm knurl diameter
Each bolt will work exactly the same

The only thing that can be a problem with the H&R bolts, is on some cars, there is very little clearance behind the wheel hub and the stud head (like on single beam axle suspension cars) since the H&R heads are a bit thicker, this can cause a clearance issue. But on the 350Z, this does NOT APPLY.

 

Chad,
Why did'nt you PM Performance? Everyone has problems at times... It seems like they are trying to help. Trying to air dirty laundry? Kudos to Performance, Jason even answered you on Saturday... Looks like early too.
Just curious...

 

haha, at least things seem resolved now! And as usual, Performance is patient and explains everything out to their customers ***** <-5star customer service haha

 

Thanks for the pics but this is still kinda funny.

In referance to the top pic of the 4 bolts side by side....

Of the (3) 14.3mm studs you posted, only the Nismo pictured is the same as the Nismo's I have. The other 2 14.3's types I have, that you have pictured don't look like the pics.

The factory one pictured on the left does not have the same splines as the one the guy at the dealer showed me. The splines on your factory studs appear to be exactlly like the Nismo spline count. The spline count the Nissan parts guy showed me on his "factory stud", had the same count number as the H&R you have pictured but the splines on the dealer studs ran 100% of the length of the section that gets wedged into the whole and they didn't have an unsplined smooth section between the end of the splines and start of the threads. It was all splined, then turned to threads. This is what the original kit studs were exactlly like too, just 15mm longer.

The original H&R's that came in the kit and the replacement ones they sent, were both different from each other and neither (9 part) sets looked like the H&R's in your pic.

On the replacement studs they sent, there was a small gap between the end of the splines where they meet the threads (about 1/16"). The original H&R's that came in the kit had splines that ran the full length of what gets wedged into the whole and had no smooth section either. These would seem to be the best, since there are no gaps athe either end of the splies, just all splined area.

Ok this is getting too confusing to explain...

However now realizing how these freaking these actually work, as long as the extra 3-4mm length doesn't bottom out the lug nuts, I am just going to use the Nismo's because i don't want to deal with going to UPS and if anybody in here snaps a 60mm bolt or two or 18!!!, I now have plenty I can give somebody, who's in a bind, since they don't seem to sell them individually. So I guess it's all cool now.

In answer to the dirty laundry thing, I was starting to feel like I was on MTV's Boiling Point or Punked and was waiting for that F%$# Ashton and his OLD lady Demi to come out from behind the limo tint with a stupid look on his face.

Anyway thanks for your help. I know using a hammer or mallet will knock the studs out but does it work on a foot too?

Yes you guys are 5 star service...

BUT

How many splines are you guys?

 

H&R has different studs for every length... If I had the exact same kit that we sent you that H&R mis-packaged... I would have sent that to you... And since I do not have that kit, I could not take a picture of that exact hub bolt that you have...

12x1.25mm Thread Pitch / Size with 14.3mm knurl diameter... is that... they may look different... Some H&R ones dont have the splines going all the way up to the head of the hub bolt, some do (like pictured)...

To install, You have to remove, Caliper, Rotor, then you can tap out the studs, its best to do with a brass mallet. You could try your foot, but have the ambulance standing by...

To pull them through, you must get a bunch of washers or an open ended lug nut, tighten it down till it pulls the hub bolt through... drive the car for 50-100 miles, and then re-torque...

good luck,

If you havent done a hub bolt install before, I wouldnt recomend it your self... Its best the hub bolts do not come loose while you are driving...