arejohn

Nissan attempted to eliminate tire wear by reinforcing the side thread block through elimination of side water drainage channels. This must significantly increase hydroplaning and the owner complaints regarding poor driving characteristics in rain or wet conditions as all of the water under the tire must exit to the front or rear and any water exiting the front only adds to the hydroplaning.
http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/a7/bf/8248_1.JPG

Mike Wazowski

iTrader: (113)

nissan doesnt make tires.

QuicksilverZ33

iTrader: (34)

So this would be a Bridgestone issue...

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Hate to break it to you, but the Z comes with "high performance" tires, not all-season tires. By definition, they don't handle well in rain and especially not in snow. They, like just about every other tire that falls into the high/ultra/maximum performance categories are not designed for rainy conditions. That especially true of driving through standing water.

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

There's really no "issue" because the tires work as designed. They are not designed for wet weather.

drooke

iTrader: (1)

those kinda look like 555

arejohn

Not designed for wet weather??? BS. Every tire is designed to the expected driving conditions. Not designed for wet weather??? does the owners manual specify not driving in rain or after rain? Summer/performance may be primary design objective but wet must be considered in any road car or we performance geeks would be running slicks.
The Bridgestones were modified from the original release. The resultant change affected wet driving conditions negatively. Probably affected dry condtions as well although to a lesser extent. Notice the new tread pattern is unique to the Z and not carried to other sizes. If you have seen any other tires with no side water grooves. Post one here. With only the rear groves passing water hydroplaning might occur at half the water dept.

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Correct - these tires are designed with maximum dry performance in mind. They DO have treads so that they are drivable in the rain, otherwise we'd all be driving on slicks.

The modification to the RE040 tires was to minimize the noise produced by the feathering problem. There's been nothing to suggest that they handle any worse in the rain as the original tires. I had both and didn't notice any difference.

I also have another set of tires with no side water grooves - Michelin PS2s. From the factory, there are 1/16" deep siping across the outside tread blocks. After one day on a road course, that wore away; yet, my PS2 still handle great in the rain. Do I drive them at 65mph on the Interstate - hell no because they are squirrly in standing water. I know better but from the tone of your two posts, I say you didn't.

I'm sorry but you can't have high performance tires that behave like Goodyear Aquatred's. Big channels to evacuate water mean less rubber to grip the road.

arejohn

We are not far out of agreement.

"The modification to the RE040 tires was to minimize the noise produced by the feathering problem."

Tying the blocks together made it take more miles to wear them unevenly. Could also be accomplished by harder compound or more flexible belt or side wall.

"There's been nothing to suggest that they handle any worse in the rain as the original tires. I had both and didn't notice any difference."

1- has this change been implemented in other sizes.
2- logic. 2 of 3 water exits closed. This must float the tires at lower driving speeds and lower water depth.
3- my close friend has 03 and his third set of Bridgestone drove with no noticable difference but my point is that many changes are not noticed until the limit is reached. Those that crashed their Z under wet conditions have reached that limit at lower speeds than anticipated. Maybe a little faster water drain would have prevented it.
4-I think bridgestone and nissan engineers know what changing the thread did.

Z04

iTrader: (15)

yeah, i was thinking the same thing

350Z84

iTrader: (5)

I think if your driving in rain you need to drive with due regard to the conditions anyway. I never had much of a problem with my OEM tires in the wet. Even after they were looking pretty smooth.

Eliane

OEM tires are ok

350Z84

iTrader: (5)

When I first saw this thread title I thought it had something to do with heavy rain, and not being able to see your car in the parking lot or something. hahaha.

Spike100

Interesting thread. (Manufacturers refer to performance tires as high, maximum, and ultimate -- and hereafter, I will refer to them as "performance tires.")

If in fact Bridgestone is supplying a "new" design for Nissan's OEM tires, it's probably superior and safer than previous versions.

Some points not mentioned or defined:

1) Performance tires are designed for smooth and well-maintained roadways. Performance tires are not meant for gravel roads, roads with loose sand, very rough surfaces, etc. Of course, you cannot safely drive a performance tire in nearly freezing weather, and never on snow or ice.

2) Performance tires, by definition, have a soft composition that wears quickly; and the tread depth is minimal when comparing to other passenger car tires.

3) As you experience wear on your performance tires, you should expect your car's handling characteristics to change. For example a performance tire worn past 50% may not provide the same level of handling on wet roads that the same tire provides when it's new. This is more significant when running staggered widths (front to rear) since the rears usually wear faster than the fronts. That means (when running a staggered setup) you go from understeer when the tires are new, to neutral steer (if and when the rears wear faster than the fronts), to oversteer when the tread on the rears is much less than the wear on the fronts. If you do not change your tires before there is significant wear, you will need to adjust your driving style.

4) Tires with more flexible sidewalls can provide better traction and "grip" on wet roadways. Albeit there is an important relationship of sidewall flexibility, tread design, and tire composition (materials). However, a performance tire with a stiff sidewall with a worn tread can lead to disaster on a wet roadway (reported many times here).

Certainly my point #4 is the most arguable in this discussion.

--Spike

taurran

iTrader: (18)

I compensate for bad tires by knowing how to drive.

ChrisR

iTrader: (13)

well i have dunlop sportmax and they SUCK!!!!!!!! i was low on funds so hey! well the road was wet and i was turning onto a street at bout 20 mph and my car slid into a fence =[didnt happen before when i had falken arzenis

The Brickyard Rat

iTrader: (1)

"4) Tires with more flexible sidewalls can provide better traction and "grip" on wet roadways. Albeit there is an important relationship of sidewall flexibility, tread design, and tire composition (materials). However, a performance tire with a stiff sidewall with a worn tread can lead to disaster on a wet roadway (reported many times here)." Spike.

Geez, this answers 100s of questions that pop up here. Has anyone posted this where it will get more attention?

Seems to me this ought to be a read for every driver using performance tires.

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

This may be a "cause and effect" debate. Is it because tires with flexible sidewalls tend to be all-season tires rather than high-performance tires which tend to have stiff sidewalls? In other words, tires with flexible sidewalls provide better grip in wet roadways because of the fundamental design of those very tires - i.e. all-season.

350ZREDLINE

iTrader: (2)

weird, from everything i read about these tires they are suppose to be great in the rain, its there dry performance that isnt *the best*

HyperSprite

iTrader: (6)

There are a lot of summer tires out there that are far better in both wet and dry conditions. I think Nissan picked them because they get a volume discount more than anything. Changing out the stocks was one of the best all around performance enhancements I have ever made.

Chris