You get what you pay for. (failed rotas)
07-02-2008, 10:39 AM
#81
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Originally Posted by JETPILOT
35% is just a good guestimate from being involved in racing.
They may give Koni Challenge teams RPF01 wheels, but they also gave Formula 1 drivers Michelins which if you remember correctly they refused to drive on for safety issues. Just the fact that so many Grand Am cars are using these wheels with no apparent failures is reason enough to use a cast wheel.
I have seen kenisis wheels crack (forged), HRE wheels crack (forged), SSR whesl crack (forged) etc. Forged doesn't necessarily mean stregnth. Wheel manufacturers often take the weight advantage than the stregnth advantage. They make the wheels lighter not stronger.
Why does F1 use forged wheels exclusively? Because F1 whels are magnesium wheels and cast magnesium cannot even compete in stregnth to cast aluminum let alone forged aluminum.
They may give Koni Challenge teams RPF01 wheels, but they also gave Formula 1 drivers Michelins which if you remember correctly they refused to drive on for safety issues. Just the fact that so many Grand Am cars are using these wheels with no apparent failures is reason enough to use a cast wheel.
I have seen kenisis wheels crack (forged), HRE wheels crack (forged), SSR whesl crack (forged) etc. Forged doesn't necessarily mean stregnth. Wheel manufacturers often take the weight advantage than the stregnth advantage. They make the wheels lighter not stronger.
Why does F1 use forged wheels exclusively? Because F1 whels are magnesium wheels and cast magnesium cannot even compete in stregnth to cast aluminum let alone forged aluminum.
F1 is a perfect example of this tradeoff - the wheels are made of such a light, brittle material in an effort to save as much unsprung weight as possible. They may get 25-50 laps per wheel and they are so brittle that they have to xray them after unmounting a tire to check for stress fractures before using them again.
I personally don't like Rota wheels or any fake car parts - to me it's the equivalent of trying to pass off a fake rolex as the real thing. Unfortunantely fakes are apart of this business, and i can't tell people how to spend thier money. But, if i had a limited budget - i would rather buy a few quality parts rather than have a car with covered in a bunch of fake ****.
(btw, there are quality wheels with original designs that are still budget friendly - look at enkei, ame, and ssr just to name a few).
07-02-2008, 12:15 PM
#82
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I had a set of GramLights for track wheels and i cracked one, im gona order Rotas for track wheels because if i crack another its going to cost me a fraction to replace it.
07-02-2008, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WheelDude.com
The Rota P45R wheels are JWL/VIA certified just like Volk Racing wheels and they hold up to a ton of abuse.
You mean they are certified, I would love to see the certificates then, you know what, anyone can stamp JWL/VIA mark on their products, which doesn't mean they have it, every crappy chinese sweatshop alloy wheels factory put JWL/VIA marks on their products, what makes Rota different from them?
Why I think Rota's JWL/VIA certificates are BS:
- why pay for japanese certificates when you are not selling anything in Japan?
- how come Rota is not a member of JAWA? While every producer of real certified wheels is. Check it by yourself http://www.jawa.jp/en/members.php
- if Rota's wheels are JWL certified tell me then where are JWL/JAWA stickers with the number of certificate?
- you say Rota stand up behind your products? Rota has state of the art technology, testing equipment? tell me it took Rota how many years to produce 19" wheels?
Oh, I am not a fanboy of Rays, Enkei or anything, I just hate obvious lies
Last edited by The_VQ; 07-02-2008 at 01:47 PM.
07-02-2008, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by The_VQ
How so?
You mean they are certified, I would love to see the certificates then, you know what, anyone can stamp JWL/VIA mark on their products, which doesn't mean they have it, every crappy chinese sweatshop alloy wheels factory put JWL/VIA marks on their products, what makes Rota different from them?
Why I think Rota's JWL/VIA certificates are BS:
- why pay for japanese certificates when you are not selling anything in Japan?
- how come Rota is not a member of JAWA? While every producer of real certified wheels is. Check it by yourself http://www.jawa.jp/en/members.php
- if Rota's wheels are JWL certified tell me then where are JWL/JAWA stickers with the number of certificate?
- you say Rota stand up behind your products? Rota has state of the art technology, testing equipment? tell me it took Rota how many years to produce 19" wheels?
Oh, I am not a fanboy of Rays, Enkei or anything, I just hate obvious lies
You mean they are certified, I would love to see the certificates then, you know what, anyone can stamp JWL/VIA mark on their products, which doesn't mean they have it, every crappy chinese sweatshop alloy wheels factory put JWL/VIA marks on their products, what makes Rota different from them?
Why I think Rota's JWL/VIA certificates are BS:
- why pay for japanese certificates when you are not selling anything in Japan?
- how come Rota is not a member of JAWA? While every producer of real certified wheels is. Check it by yourself http://www.jawa.jp/en/members.php
- if Rota's wheels are JWL certified tell me then where are JWL/JAWA stickers with the number of certificate?
- you say Rota stand up behind your products? Rota has state of the art technology, testing equipment? tell me it took Rota how many years to produce 19" wheels?
Oh, I am not a fanboy of Rays, Enkei or anything, I just hate obvious lies
rota jwl certified? thats a JOKE! lets see the certificate. hard to believe that a philippines manufactured wheel is jwl or iso certified. what a bunch of posers.
07-04-2008, 09:24 PM
#89
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I beat the hell out of the set I had and never had any problems. Numers track days on two different Zs. Drag and autocross. I would buy another set in a heart beat.
07-05-2008, 11:46 PM
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The problem with knockoff wheels is sometimes the structures in the original designs are made using forged wheel technology, in this case a copy of Nismo LMGT4 wheels. Since these wheels are cast and share pretty much the same dimensions as the LMGT4 there possibly isnt enough aluminum to make them structurally as sound as the original forged counterparts. Sometimes replica wheels makers overlook those aspects of the copying in exchange for a better/closer looking replica to the orignals.
07-05-2008, 11:58 PM
#93
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Lets not also forget Rays/Volk is one of those few companies that produces true JWL+R wheels which have much higher standards then normal JWL specs. They must pass 2x the specifications of already rigorous JWL specifications. I select quality originals myself because wheels are like brakes, its critical safety item and should not be skimped, thats unless you dont treasure your life. The safety of you and others around you ride on those wheels.
Originally Posted by The_VQ
How so?
You mean they are certified, I would love to see the certificates then, you know what, anyone can stamp JWL/VIA mark on their products, which doesn't mean they have it, every crappy chinese sweatshop alloy wheels factory put JWL/VIA marks on their products, what makes Rota different from them?
Why I think Rota's JWL/VIA certificates are BS:
- why pay for japanese certificates when you are not selling anything in Japan?
- how come Rota is not a member of JAWA? While every producer of real certified wheels is. Check it by yourself http://www.jawa.jp/en/members.php
- if Rota's wheels are JWL certified tell me then where are JWL/JAWA stickers with the number of certificate?
- you say Rota stand up behind your products? Rota has state of the art technology, testing equipment? tell me it took Rota how many years to produce 19" wheels?
Oh, I am not a fanboy of Rays, Enkei or anything, I just hate obvious lies
You mean they are certified, I would love to see the certificates then, you know what, anyone can stamp JWL/VIA mark on their products, which doesn't mean they have it, every crappy chinese sweatshop alloy wheels factory put JWL/VIA marks on their products, what makes Rota different from them?
Why I think Rota's JWL/VIA certificates are BS:
- why pay for japanese certificates when you are not selling anything in Japan?
- how come Rota is not a member of JAWA? While every producer of real certified wheels is. Check it by yourself http://www.jawa.jp/en/members.php
- if Rota's wheels are JWL certified tell me then where are JWL/JAWA stickers with the number of certificate?
- you say Rota stand up behind your products? Rota has state of the art technology, testing equipment? tell me it took Rota how many years to produce 19" wheels?
Oh, I am not a fanboy of Rays, Enkei or anything, I just hate obvious lies
07-06-2008, 12:54 AM
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Theres a lot of hate towards rota dam boy!!! lol Projectalfa Ill say think again before calling people you don't know posers for having rotas. I think thats ignorance. Some people just cant afford expensive rims like my self.
07-06-2008, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDirty Z33
Theres a lot of hate towards rota dam boy!!! lol Projectalfa Ill say think again before calling people you don't know posers for having rotas. I think thats ignorance. Some people just cant afford expensive rims like my self.
07-06-2008, 01:16 AM
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Yes I understand there many other brands out there but at the same time what makes 5zigen/enkie better than rotas?? I had a buddy that cracked on him on his s2k... Also Other rims out there crack and I know you seen other threds about them. Soo does that make a certen brand cheep/ crappy/ lame rims??? no!!? Its how you treat them and how hard you drive on those rims what makes them crack.
07-06-2008, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDirty Z33
Yes I understand there many other brands out there but at the same time what makes 5zigen/enkie better than rotas?? I had a buddy that cracked on him on his s2k... Also Other rims out there crack and I know you seen other threds about them. Soo does that make a certen brand cheep/ crappy/ lame rims??? no!!? Its how you treat them and how hard you drive on those rims what makes them crack.
Product design and quality control. There is a difference between copied wheels and wheels engineered by original designer. I'm not here to say all replica wheel suck, but i am going to say that some copied wheels under engineer them from original design. The particular design of the example wheel as the P45's are derived from the forged LMGT4, the dimensions and perhaps spoke size / design was perhaps under engineered for a cast version that they are made by. Material impurities make a difference also. Its rarely ever that the replica products exceed the quality of original parts / design. Same goes with tires, Nankang, Wanli, Nongshim all make Chinese replicas version of Yokohama/Falken modeled tires but they dont perform anywhere the same as the originals. The reason why these replica companies offer the products at such a low cost is that they never had to design or engineer any of the parts or design, they simply let the original parts maker do it and they just simply copy it. This cuts expenses of R&D that greatly lowers manufacturing expenses. Not to say that all original wheel maker's wheels are 100% perfect and flawless, they do from time to time have flawed wheels but for the most part has a very small % of them. If you google cracked Rota wheels alot of threads come up everywhere.
07-06-2008, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddie@Performance
Product design and quality control. There is a difference between copied wheels and wheels engineered by original designer. I'm not here to say all replica wheel suck, but i am going to say that some copied wheels under engineer them from original design. The particular design of the example wheel as the P45's are derived from the forged LMGT4, the dimensions and perhaps spoke size / design was perhaps under engineered for a cast version that they are made by. Material impurities make a difference also. Its rarely ever that the replica products exceed the quality of original parts / design. Same goes with tires, Nankang, Wanli, Nongshim all make Chinese replicas version of Yokohama/Falken modeled tires but they dont perform anywhere the same as the originals. The reason why these replica companies offer the products at such a low cost is that they never had to design or engineer any of the parts or design, they simply let the original parts maker do it and they just simply copy it. This cuts expenses of R&D that greatly lowers manufacturing expenses. Not to say that all original wheel maker's wheels are 100% perfect and flawless, they do from time to time have flawed wheels but for the most part has a very small % of them. If you google cracked Rota wheels alot of threads come up everywhere.
07-06-2008, 07:25 AM
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There is so much speculation in this thread..
The_VQ - JWL/VIA standards for Rota wheels.. Rota has equipment at their facility which their wheels go through and are tested on. The wheels have to meet these testing standards to get the JWL/VIA stamp on the wheel. Every couple of years the equipment is also tested by JWL/VIA engineers to confirm it is accurate. I had a set of Enkei's that are JWL/VIA certified yet they didn't have a "sticker" on them, I guess they weren't really up to the JWL/VIA standards... And about the 19" wheel comment, I take it you are referring to the recent post about which 19" wheel styles people are interested in.. If you really think Rota hasn't made 19" wheels before then you are as dense as I think you are.. I would stop speculating with your posts and really watch who you are calling a lier. I emailed the president of Rota about your post so hopefully he can step in and provide more details for you about the JWL/VIA certification for their wheels.
Eddie@Performance - Even more speculation.. This goes back to an earlier post I made where people make negative comments on products they have no first hand experience with. It clearly shows in your posts that you read one article from Enkei (high rigidity vs lightweight) and now you think you are an expert on manufacturing rims, did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?? While the designs aren't always original they still go through fabrication, testing, more testing, and then finally production. Here's a link with more info, it's not a "JDM" article but I hope you can learn something from it..
http://rotawheels.com/about.shtml
-Dan
The_VQ - JWL/VIA standards for Rota wheels.. Rota has equipment at their facility which their wheels go through and are tested on. The wheels have to meet these testing standards to get the JWL/VIA stamp on the wheel. Every couple of years the equipment is also tested by JWL/VIA engineers to confirm it is accurate. I had a set of Enkei's that are JWL/VIA certified yet they didn't have a "sticker" on them, I guess they weren't really up to the JWL/VIA standards... And about the 19" wheel comment, I take it you are referring to the recent post about which 19" wheel styles people are interested in.. If you really think Rota hasn't made 19" wheels before then you are as dense as I think you are.. I would stop speculating with your posts and really watch who you are calling a lier. I emailed the president of Rota about your post so hopefully he can step in and provide more details for you about the JWL/VIA certification for their wheels.
Eddie@Performance - Even more speculation.. This goes back to an earlier post I made where people make negative comments on products they have no first hand experience with. It clearly shows in your posts that you read one article from Enkei (high rigidity vs lightweight) and now you think you are an expert on manufacturing rims, did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?? While the designs aren't always original they still go through fabrication, testing, more testing, and then finally production. Here's a link with more info, it's not a "JDM" article but I hope you can learn something from it..
http://rotawheels.com/about.shtml
-Dan