bomber

iTrader: (1)

I can accept that but it doesn't give you the right to call me ignorant. It doesn't give you the right to talk down to people. You have some pretty strong preconceived notions that do not necessarily fit in everyone else's value equation. They also don't fit into the real world dynamic of business. My guess is BBS et al accept that their designs are emulated. My guess is you are making a bigger deal of it than their marketing department. They are not trying to appeal to folks who spend $1K on 4 wheels. That is not their market segment.

And for those that buy so called replical wheels and rebadge them, I think they are posers.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

They are 18 x 9.5 F&R. I'm slightly stretched in the front with 245 x 40s and have 275 x 40s in the rear

The_VQ

iTrader: (5)

Show me one single car model which Nissan has stolen from other manufacturer...oh yeah, you cannot, they have stolen nothing, that's how deep is your point.

Like I have mentioned before, you have choice, you have other, cheaper, yet respected companies who make affordable wheels, so why you won't buy anything from their lineups? Because those wheels don't look expensive?

illjim69

iTrader: (6)

Then you wouldn't have an issue with removing any brand name logos or stickers off of your wheels, assuming you have Volks or Works? If the name doesn't matter, it would almost never come up in discussion, minus the "hey what kind of wheels are those?" questions that some people might ask.

The same can be said about the watches. The word "Rolex" or "Tag" can be removed from the face, since it's just the design and self satisfaction that you're after.

Who cares how much work was put into crafting a wheel. Knockoff brands won't kill these companies because there will always be folks who want the "real deal" for all the advantages that product has over the knockoffs. Other people just can't find any real advantages to apply to their lives when they buy certain things. This is why I don't own a Mont Blanc pen, a Bic puts ink on paper just as well and Rota wheels roll under the car not unlike Volks. No, I don't own Rotas, just making a point.

If you don't care what people spend their money on, you wasted a bit of your life posting in this thread, or maybe you really do care. People will spend money on things as they see fit. I personally don't care about wheels, I don't track my car, never will, so knockoffs are fine for me. I would rather put that money towards something else, like home improvements or a new gun.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

Awesome! I left the rat race of industry and started my own business 3 years ago. I am a Firearms dealer/manufacturer. We specialize in custom built AR15's including SBRs, silencers and FA when allowed.

The_VQ

iTrader: (5)

Your were the one who has started with the whole "I have a huge experience in Product Development and Marketing" thing, not me. Yeah, I had a more in depth look at the BBS situation as I am on the other side of the pond than you, I basicly know the whole story how hard the business for them was.

Oh, and don't make assumptions like that, BBS has pretty wide offer



Slightly above $1k for a set of 4 wheels, and I didn't looked for the best deal...what should I call it if not ignorance then?

Yep, I've got no problem with that, like with debadging the car, I have blacked out center caps on most of the wheels I had...I don't need to grow my ego or self esteem with "hey what kind of wheels are those?" replies, why? Because I know a true enthusiast will recognize the origin of the wheels...don't really care about the others, for them it is enough the wheels are round.

Both "Rolex" and "Tag" are too flashy for me, again, watch is another thing you could buy from a borderline company and again only a true enthusiast will appreciate the choice you have made.

I care because I do some design work (not wheels though), and I know the feeling when somebody has ripped your idea... I have given you an example of a company which has been nearly killed by the knockoffs, yet you don't seem to notice.

illjim69

iTrader: (6)

So then Nissan designed the first car? Is that what you're saying?

Z, case in point. Did Nissan make the first two seat, front engine, RWD sports car? If not, the Z is just a knockoff.

So now, a nicely designed wheel is also expensive looking? I don't think people buy Rotas because they "look like more expensive Volks or Works" but because the Rotas deliver a similar design that people like and it makes those designs more affordable. If Rota came up with those designs on their own, people would still want them because let's face it, certain designs look good on certain cars. Do you work for Ray's Engineering? Do you own stock in them? I honestly don't see how knockoff wheels effect your life in such a manner that you feel the need to blast them so publicly. If Volk or Work were worried about losing sales to cheaper, similarly designed wheel makers, they would offer their products at a lesser price. Clearly they don't care because enough people buy their products at the price they ask.

GeauxLadyZ

iTrader: (9)

Or they sink them, this is the catch 22 of the follower role, as the followers are out of business without the innovators. This dependency in innovator/follower roles is purely one-sided, thus shows you the "leech" type business tactics of a long-term follower.

Correct, i had the two terms mixed, i was thinking one and coining another. Business marketing is not my field, but i do very well understand marketing.
And technically, advertising is a branch of marketing.

However, even in marketing, MANY large companies do outsource to save in overhead...it all depends on the industry. In energy, (my field) outsourcing marketing is quite common, but so is in house, its a pretty even mix.

Either way, whether marketing or advertising, the same principles of my argument apply. The companies sole purpose is building wheels, not marketing...period. Innovation in their product is key to furthering the industry, itself, as well as their business...its a double win. Innovation in marketing is to further their business...revenue, however innovation is still required on the product side to keep the business afloat long term. Marketing, alone, wont do the trick.

They are, after all, selling a product, not a service.

stradaONE8

iTrader: (2)

This is where you cease to be a player in this conversation.

Your understanding of what we are discussing is hilarious and tragic at best, as I assume you graduated school. Nissan didn't make the first car, but a CAR is a TYPE of thing. Nissan didn't make the first 2 seater, but again that is a TYPE of car. You seriously have to be kidding me with that argument. Sweet mother that is beyond words.
If Nissan made their Z to look exactly like any other 2 seater FR car, then your argument would make sense as they copied a DESIGN. I wouldn't buy one for that reason. That's the parallel, not that they made a car...

We're talking about copying a wheel DESIGN, not making a wheel genius. I feel like I'm being punked by your thought process right now.
Thanks for putting those three little faces after your comments, it gives a little insight to them.



THANK YOU


I cannot believe that all of you defend Rota without realizing this is the SINGULAR argument against replica companies. This has nothing to do with nuthugging, brand loyalty, or bashing Rota for crap or their owners for being posers...this is about business ethics in the absence of absolute copyright law. Rota doesn't have a single wheel without the rest of these companies.



And bomber, what happened? No reply to you needing a 30,000 dollar sports car as your daily driver but Volk owners not needing forged wheels because we're just driving to work? Didn't think so.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

I can't get him to even consider that concept. I'm willing to bet he cares more about the emulation than the Volk, BBS et al do. They have chosen a market (best) and don't care to operate in good or better.

GeauxLadyZ

iTrader: (9)

I own Axis wheels, by no means a wheel snob.

I just like arguing, buddy.

But i do believe in supporting companies that support my passion, not the ones who use the industry for a quick, easy buck.

But i gotto go get drunk now, Sat night fellas, gtfo!

The_VQ

iTrader: (5)

Ok, let see it, I am curiously waiting for this moment to happen... ever thought why certain wheel designs looks good on certain models? Because the wheel designer was good, that's why.

Cux350z

iTrader: (162)

Wow. What a horrible way to make a point.

The difference is if you put a Z next to say a Corvette you could definitely see the difference and know that they are not copies but share similar attributes.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

First off I didn't pay $30K for my car. Not even close, so am I a poser . I guess I failed at making my point. If you want to spend $4K on wheels that is your decision. Far be it from me to try and judge your value equation. I jad hoped I was clear that I was speaking for me. I do not need forged wheels and their associated cost for what is a car I drive to and from work in. I did not get "duped" you indicated before. I purchased a set of wheels that i thought would look good on my car and was within my price range. Sorry but i personally do not see the VALUE in more expensive wheels as I drive my car 20 miles a day on city streets. I am not trying to pass them as more expensive than they are. I bought the wheels and the car for me, not you or anyone else.

You guys should stop being so judgemental.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

Great and guess what? I don't like them. I bought wheels i like at a price i can afford. I'll tell you what, next time I buy wheels, I'll send you a budget and let you pick them for me. Will that make you happy?

The_VQ

iTrader: (5)

With this kind of morality why don't just go and steal some Volks? You would get them for free.

What you do when you like a Gallardo? You also buy it at a price you can afford?

stradaONE8

iTrader: (2)

I told you, it doesn't matter how much you paid or why, that's your business. Like it's my business that I chose to pay for Volks. But telling people that they don't need forged Volks because it's a daily driver is a little odd when you drive what you do to work. Also, 30k is in reference to MSRP.

I was merely pointing out how your argument of necessity is moot because IT'S ALL unnecessary. What you see as 'value' is probably gross overspending to some people who are poorer than you. They likely can see your car already came with wheels, so why/how is it any more necessary/value based to buy another whole set of wheels no matter if they cost 1k or 3k? Step outside of your own perspective for a moment.

The argument is stupid and used far too often by people riding on replicas to make it seem like their purchase was ever so justified because it was only 1k. This argument it about ethics, not perceived value/qualty/service or any of the other issues people use to side step the point at hand.

No innovators, no replicators...

bomber

iTrader: (1)

I'll tell you what. YOU WIN CONGRATULATIONS YOU WON AN ARGUEMENT ON THE INTERNET . Next time I buy wheels I'll make sure I get you to tell me which ones to buy.

illjim69

iTrader: (6)

Oh thank you for allowing me to come this far, oh lord of the internet.

The Rotas look different enough that most car enthusiasts can tell the difference. No foul.

While I enjoy your subtle little jabs at me, try and keep it clean.

Bottom line, people like the design but don't feel like shelling out 5,000 bucks on the Volks or Works. Enter Rota with SIMILAR designs, not exact replicas, for less money. It happens all the time in the business world. Look at computers. There are really expensive ones that are built better and offer better performance and then there are ones that look the same but are cheaper because not everyone can justify the price for the expensive ones, nor do they require the top of the line.

So if it helps you sleep better at night knowing that you have better wheels than someone else, run with that.


Good, then take solace in that and move on with your life. It isn't about ethics at all, that is a weak argument at best. Similar products come out all the time, it's called free market.

So now people can't own a Z unless they track it? His point was probably that if he were to track it and required a wheel that was designed for that purpose, he would buy them. But since it's just a car to drive around and enjoy on the roadways, no need on dropping 5 grand on wheels that he will never see the difference in.

illjim69

iTrader: (6)

Thing is, it isn't like Rota owners are rampaging threads talking about how stupid Volk owners are for spending money on wheels. Quite the opposite. Wheel snobs enter threads all the time for no reason other than to talk down to people.

And we would all be rolling on stock wheels. Who gives a crap? Welcome to the consumer market. Volks and Works won't sell for a certain price that people are willing to pay......then someone will just make a similar wheel for less money.