Test drove Z...clutch questions.
07-01-2005, 04:14 PM
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Test drove Z...clutch questions.
I've been debating buying a Z, and finally got around to test driving one today. I really liked it, but the clutch bugged the crap out of me. Well, more the pedal. There was about a half inch of dead travel after the clutch was completely engaged. In order to push the clutch in, you went through half an inch of almost no resistance on the pedal, and then the clutch started to disengage. Going the other way, after the clutch was fully engaged there was more pedal travel before my foot lifted off the pedal. Is this normal? If so, is there a rememdy?
Take up was certainly smooth...the engine revved really easily...seat was nicer than my current car. I drove it windows down so I really can't compare interior sound levels. I'm currently driving an '03 330Ci manual I bought new. It's a really nice car, no doubt, (you'll find me as Bob330Ci over on bimmerfest.com) but with a recent transfer my daily drive went from 44 miles to 96 miles. Ug. Started thinking I needed another car to either split the miles with or a commuter car. Z seemed like it would be more fun than a Civic and used prices didn't look too bad. Decided a test drive in a new one was in order before I started running all over looking for a good used one. I knew it'd be faster than the 330Ci...I did not expect it to be more comfortable. Not only more comfortable, but easier to get in and out of. Ground clearance is about the same, so I expect snow performance to be almost as good (the 330Ci has a true 50/50 weight split). I'm actually thinking about selling the 330Ci for a new 350Z.
Assuming that clutch doesn't make my brain itch.
B.
Take up was certainly smooth...the engine revved really easily...seat was nicer than my current car. I drove it windows down so I really can't compare interior sound levels. I'm currently driving an '03 330Ci manual I bought new. It's a really nice car, no doubt, (you'll find me as Bob330Ci over on bimmerfest.com) but with a recent transfer my daily drive went from 44 miles to 96 miles. Ug. Started thinking I needed another car to either split the miles with or a commuter car. Z seemed like it would be more fun than a Civic and used prices didn't look too bad. Decided a test drive in a new one was in order before I started running all over looking for a good used one. I knew it'd be faster than the 330Ci...I did not expect it to be more comfortable. Not only more comfortable, but easier to get in and out of. Ground clearance is about the same, so I expect snow performance to be almost as good (the 330Ci has a true 50/50 weight split). I'm actually thinking about selling the 330Ci for a new 350Z.
Assuming that clutch doesn't make my brain itch.
B.
07-01-2005, 05:05 PM
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It's not that the clutch on either car is not fully engaging. It's that there seems to be a lot of useless play in the pedal on the Z.
B.
EDIT: At least on the car I drove. And that's what I'm wondering...is that normal?
B.
EDIT: At least on the car I drove. And that's what I'm wondering...is that normal?
Last edited by DarkBob; 07-01-2005 at 05:10 PM.
07-01-2005, 06:27 PM
#5
Snow? Forget about it! Unless you want to kill yourself...
Many people garage/store their Zs for the winter and drive 4X4 or beaters...
Yes, I've noticed that clutch play.. I believe it's there on purpose. Many people rest their left foot on the clutch and drive. Therefore without a little clutch play, drivers can accidently partially disengage the clutch by slightly tapping/pressing the clutch... This is my theory anyway...
Many people garage/store their Zs for the winter and drive 4X4 or beaters...
Yes, I've noticed that clutch play.. I believe it's there on purpose. Many people rest their left foot on the clutch and drive. Therefore without a little clutch play, drivers can accidently partially disengage the clutch by slightly tapping/pressing the clutch... This is my theory anyway...
07-01-2005, 07:04 PM
#6
Put a set of Blizzacks on the Z and it drives like an SUV. I ran a set of Blizzack lm22's this past winter, it completely transformed the car in the snow and you can drive with confidence.
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07-01-2005, 11:41 PM
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I think you just like the idea of a new car with a bit more aggressive engine. But honestly, I think that you'll find the Z cabin to be very noisy and the car to be less comfortable than your current 330ci.
07-02-2005, 08:20 PM
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Thanks all for the input. Bummer to hear that what I felt on the clutch is normal, though I'll be doing some searching on xcmpx's mod. Nonetheless I felt the engagement point was pretty good, and take up just as smooth as the BMW.
Honestly I'm really not too concerned over snow performance. It snows what, like 6 work days a year here? And maybe 2 storms deep enough to immobilize the 330Ci? Work from home. Actually, the 330Ci is horrible in the snow until you put snows on it. Summer tires are just that. In 3/4" of snow and the OE Pilot Sports, the BMW would sit perfectly still, idling in first gear, spinning the back tires. Forward motion, even starting out in third, was nearly impossible. Stopping from 15mph took over 40 feet. Switched to Blizzak LM-22's and normally pass 4x4's on M59 in the snow. Driving in snow is all about being able to stop, and all cars use all 4 tires to stop, so I readily outstop all-season equipped 4x4's with their extra heavy drivetrains. Yeah they beat me away from a stop, but do you really want to go that fast in the snow, as long as you can go? I suspect all the talk about bad snow performance is mostly due to improper tires, but hey, buyer beware - if I'm wrong it's not like you guys didn't warn me. Interesting to note that the Z has a limited slip, the 3 does not - it uses differential braking to simulate a limited slip, which is not nearly as effective. I'm curious what kind of limited slip the Z has but a search will answer that shortly.
My original interest in the Z was as an alternative to a Cobalt or Civic for my now long commute to work - to keep miles off the BMW. I figured after I moved in a year or two the Z would become a dedicated track car. But the Z far exceeded my expectations for comfort. The seats are light years ahead of the 330Ci sport package seats, though a hair behind the M3 seats, admittedly. I find the driving position to be a little more comfortable to my taste...YMMV. Noise wise I have no doubt that the BMW is quieter. Engine noise is pleasurable, tire noise and road noise not so much...so I do plan to take a highway ride in the Z with the windows up. But unless it's as noisy as an old F250, I doubt that'd really play largely in my decision. The BMW is not nearly Mercedes quiet either. Had I simply wanted a faster car, I would simply trade my 330Ci for a Z4 or M3 or put better antiroll bars on the current one, but I was looking for a great value too so I wouldn't cry over clocking 100 miles a day onto the car. The value of the Z is pretty hard to deny. I was expecting it to be a second car in addition to the 330Ci, but I'm starting to like it enough that I'm not sure I'd need to keep the 330Ci and may trade it for something a bit more different from the Z.
One bummer is that my favorite tires - Michelin's Pilot Sport PS2's - are not available in stock sizes for the Z.
As for the stronger engine, don't underestimate the 3.0 in the 330Ci. There's only a half second difference between these two cars to 60, and that is easily made up for by a skilled driver. I've embarassed a lot of unsuspecting Mustang GTs. But there's a lot more to being fast than being fast in a straight line.
Interesting though that 2 of the replies have tried to talk me out of it. Didn't expect that on a Z enthusiast board.
Anyway, I've typed more than enough (as usual) to put most readers to sleep. Thanks again for the input.
Bob.
Honestly I'm really not too concerned over snow performance. It snows what, like 6 work days a year here? And maybe 2 storms deep enough to immobilize the 330Ci? Work from home. Actually, the 330Ci is horrible in the snow until you put snows on it. Summer tires are just that. In 3/4" of snow and the OE Pilot Sports, the BMW would sit perfectly still, idling in first gear, spinning the back tires. Forward motion, even starting out in third, was nearly impossible. Stopping from 15mph took over 40 feet. Switched to Blizzak LM-22's and normally pass 4x4's on M59 in the snow. Driving in snow is all about being able to stop, and all cars use all 4 tires to stop, so I readily outstop all-season equipped 4x4's with their extra heavy drivetrains. Yeah they beat me away from a stop, but do you really want to go that fast in the snow, as long as you can go? I suspect all the talk about bad snow performance is mostly due to improper tires, but hey, buyer beware - if I'm wrong it's not like you guys didn't warn me. Interesting to note that the Z has a limited slip, the 3 does not - it uses differential braking to simulate a limited slip, which is not nearly as effective. I'm curious what kind of limited slip the Z has but a search will answer that shortly.
My original interest in the Z was as an alternative to a Cobalt or Civic for my now long commute to work - to keep miles off the BMW. I figured after I moved in a year or two the Z would become a dedicated track car. But the Z far exceeded my expectations for comfort. The seats are light years ahead of the 330Ci sport package seats, though a hair behind the M3 seats, admittedly. I find the driving position to be a little more comfortable to my taste...YMMV. Noise wise I have no doubt that the BMW is quieter. Engine noise is pleasurable, tire noise and road noise not so much...so I do plan to take a highway ride in the Z with the windows up. But unless it's as noisy as an old F250, I doubt that'd really play largely in my decision. The BMW is not nearly Mercedes quiet either. Had I simply wanted a faster car, I would simply trade my 330Ci for a Z4 or M3 or put better antiroll bars on the current one, but I was looking for a great value too so I wouldn't cry over clocking 100 miles a day onto the car. The value of the Z is pretty hard to deny. I was expecting it to be a second car in addition to the 330Ci, but I'm starting to like it enough that I'm not sure I'd need to keep the 330Ci and may trade it for something a bit more different from the Z.
One bummer is that my favorite tires - Michelin's Pilot Sport PS2's - are not available in stock sizes for the Z.
As for the stronger engine, don't underestimate the 3.0 in the 330Ci. There's only a half second difference between these two cars to 60, and that is easily made up for by a skilled driver. I've embarassed a lot of unsuspecting Mustang GTs. But there's a lot more to being fast than being fast in a straight line.
Interesting though that 2 of the replies have tried to talk me out of it. Didn't expect that on a Z enthusiast board.
Anyway, I've typed more than enough (as usual) to put most readers to sleep. Thanks again for the input.
Bob.
07-02-2005, 10:51 PM
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Here is your guide to clutch adjustment.
I was in a rush earlier. The bolt that one accesses is quiote awkward but put 20 minutes into it and you should see great results. I had it adjusted so the engagement was the floor and the assembly only moved about an two inches off the floorboard when in gear! Kinda neat race feel however I was concerned about burning out the clutch. I drove my unadjusted brother's Z and there is no comparison. So this is a second rule in my book.
1) Adjust HID height.
2) Adjust clutch feel.
I was in a rush earlier. The bolt that one accesses is quiote awkward but put 20 minutes into it and you should see great results. I had it adjusted so the engagement was the floor and the assembly only moved about an two inches off the floorboard when in gear! Kinda neat race feel however I was concerned about burning out the clutch. I drove my unadjusted brother's Z and there is no comparison. So this is a second rule in my book.
1) Adjust HID height.
2) Adjust clutch feel.
07-03-2005, 08:40 AM
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Bob, I'd recommend a few test drives in the Z before you get it. The reason for this is that the Z will be VERY VERY VERY different from your 330Ci. The Bimmer is comfortable and luxurious, whereas the Z will be very noisy (in comparison), ride very harshly (especially one with 18 inchers) and will offer much less room inside for groceries or friends or whatnot. However, if you love driving and love cars, you will LOVE the Z to death.
The 330 and the Z are very different cars, for some fun, go to your favorite road and take a thrash along it with the 330Ci, then do it with the Z, I think that'll answer your questions way better than any of us can.
Oh, and watch out for tire feathering.
The 330 and the Z are very different cars, for some fun, go to your favorite road and take a thrash along it with the 330Ci, then do it with the Z, I think that'll answer your questions way better than any of us can.
Oh, and watch out for tire feathering.
07-03-2005, 10:37 AM
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Yeah there is a dead period on my 05 when you first press down on the clutch. But cluthes vary from vehicle to vehicle. If it engaged smoothly then you should be fine IMO. You'll also notice the 05 has a softer clutch so don't let that freak you out. I actually like the heavier cltuch it felt alot smoother to engage on the 03 Z. Good luck.
Last edited by elms350Z; 07-03-2005 at 10:39 AM.
07-04-2005, 02:02 AM
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Just picked up a base and I had to get a bit used to the clutch, but it seems fine to me. Other than the clutch, the short throws of the manual far exceed those of BMWs, and will compete with many SSKs IMO.
I also have a 6sp 545 and find that it's much easier to rev match the down shifts as well as heel and toe in the Z. Have not had the time to take out my CDV though.
Even though the 545 is faster in a straight line, you're isolated and don't really feel the speed. This is not the case in the Z.
Your 330 will be much more luxurious and comfortable. I too find the seats in the Z rather comfy and snug, but road noise along with all the mechanical noises may get tiresome.
I also have a 6sp 545 and find that it's much easier to rev match the down shifts as well as heel and toe in the Z. Have not had the time to take out my CDV though.
Even though the 545 is faster in a straight line, you're isolated and don't really feel the speed. This is not the case in the Z.
Your 330 will be much more luxurious and comfortable. I too find the seats in the Z rather comfy and snug, but road noise along with all the mechanical noises may get tiresome.
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