Polo08816

The difference is that we, law-abiding citizens, have the choice whether to arm ourselves or not. We are citizens. You are a subject.

Polo08816

You obviously are overconfident in yourself. No matter how big you are (170lbs isn't even that much), you will NOT win against multiple attackers. Even if you had 2 150lbs guys on you, you are going to lose. Add one more to the scenario, it is a done deal.

You really think your boot is going to do damage? Sure, it might give them a bruise. But against a determined attacker with a knife, you are history if you do not run. A combat knife negates any size advantage you had. Furthermore, it is IMPOSSIBLE to disarm someone with a knife. The longer you fight, the more cuts and stab wounds you will have. The more of those, the more biomechanical damage you will sustain. The more damage you will sustain, the more blood you will lose. If you lose enough blood you will either, A) not be able to keep up physically in terms of endurance, B) not be able to move certain parts of your body, and C) become unconscious. Ultimately, you will be incapacitated.

Stop acting like you're all tough and have it all figured out. Life is full of surprised. Never overestimate yourself.

Kano

By "boot" I mean my "trunk" in American English. I have a wheel brace in there (metal bar).

I'm not stupid enough to fight somebody with a knife, or multiple attackers or anything like that. All I'm saying is that I'm confident in my ability to look after myself and that the other person will not have a deadly weapon. Of course, if they pull out a massive knife I'm definately not going on the offensive, that's when your pride can get hurt, let the guy feel big and tough and back down, whilst recording his registration number and ringing the cops.

And if anybody was to come after me with a knife, I'm a fast enough runner to either outpace them completely or at least until I can find a good supply of house bricks to chuck at them..

Oh, and I got my weight wrong before (there's 14 pounds and not 12 in a stone - silly me) I'm more like 195lbs.

In England the mentality is different. If a person is a man they do not have guns or knives unless they are professionals. If somebody pulls a knife on you, you think they are soft and weak, having to hide behind a weapon. These people tend to not last very long.

Kano

Yes, but how do you ensure that guns stay out of the hands of criminals?

As soon as you get a gun there is a risk that it could fall into the wrong hands. You could be burgled, your car could be robbed. If guns are available easily, they could be bought with fake/stolen ID or by legitimate people that will pass them on to criminals.

In the UK, gun crime is mainly limited to infighting between drug dealers and other criminal gangs. You never hear of individuals being robbed at gun point or children accidentally shooting themselves, or high school students going crazy.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

I'm trying hard to respect our cultural differences here and understand that not everyone thinks the same. Regarding your final paragraph, I would much rather assume the risks that go with the right to keep and bear arms than to have my government dictate that I will be unarmed against someone who could be wielding anything from a pocket knife to an illegal handgun.

Peace.

Kano

"There has been a 15 percent reduction in the number of homicides involving firearms (from 81 deaths in 2002-03 to 68 in 2003-04). Eight percent of homicides involved firearms in 2003-04, which is unchanged from the previous year."

"The number of robberies involving firearms has decreased by 13 percent in 2003-04. Firearms were used in four percent of all robbery offences."

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

So what you're saying is that "men" in England don't carry guns because they're "men", yet when they are confronted by someone with a knife, etc. they run away until they can find debris to hurl at their attacker? I think I'll keep my gun thanks.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

As long as guns are present in a society, criminals will have them. The problem is that there are thousands of deadly weapons out there, from hammers to ice-picks to bath towels. It's not the weapon you protect yourself against, it's the person wielding it. And per your own statistics, even in a country where guns are illegal, firearms still play a part in the commission of crimes.

Kano

I respect your individual right to protect yourself and your family, but the ease of availability of firearms in your country makes the whole of your society more vulnerable.

It's an almost selfish attitute. But if you're happy to live with the effects of gun crime, or at least ignore sections of the community that are effected by it, you'll be happy.

Kano

Heh! Yeah, doesn't sound too good when you put it like that.. I think what I'm trying to say is that we prefer to just kick and punch the **** out of each other and leave the stabbing and shootings to the criminals.

When we see somebody with a knife we recognise that they could do serious damage. We back off if possible and live to fight another day.

At the end of the day, some things aren't worth dying or being injured for. Including your Z.

Kano

Well, we're getting a bit deep here, social injustice, lack of education, drug problems, etc, etc all play their part. If a person is pushed to injure another, they'll find it a hell of a lot easier with a firearm than a soggy bath towel.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

I completely agree that no physical posession is worth dying for, and our laws are structured such that the use of deadly force to protect anything other than human life is illegal in almost all states.

While it's ok to just kick and punch the crap out of each other if you want, if you're on the losing end of that beating, what's to stop the guy beating your @$$ from continuing until you're dead? And of course I would prefer to leave the stabbings and shootings to the criminals too, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't shoot someone if my life depended on it. Shooting someone in self defense doesn't make me a criminial or a thug or anything else. It makes me a protected citizen.

I think the real issue is that if someone with a knife (or any other "weapon"), decides to do harm to me, the government should not limit my ability to protect myself with whatever means necessary. The government (the law) SHOULD have the ability, no the responsibility to be as severe as possible if I were to choose to use my gun in other than a defensive nature.

And it's an important thing to say one more time....guns don't kill people, people kill people. A gun is no more dangerous than a knife, a baseball bat, or a car for that matter.

Paul350Z

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't it be nice if criminal only used guns on each other? Or that you were able to retreat from a criminal pointing a gun you? Or if we really had laws that put people in jail for using a gun in the commission of a crime - wait we do - wouldn't it be really nice if they actually enforced the thousands of laws already in the book upon the crimnals that continue to do violence upon the innocent rather than attempting to take away my GOD GIVEN RIGHT to self defense?

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

Well said.

eraz3r

iTrader: (9)

Exactly. I'm fortunate enough to live far enough south of chicago to be allowed a handgun. Cook county has its own statutes that harshly limit handgun ownership and crazy enough, handgun crimes are still happening.

Too bad my employer doesnt have a major office in VA, I'd move just for CCW.

Paul350Z

iTrader: (1)

It is reported that 50% of people in London are worried about security and sleep with some form of self-defence to hand, for use against intruders.

The 'Safe Bedside Table' has a removable leg that acts as a club and a top that doubles as a shield for self-defence. This is for people who are willing to take on an intruder, providing an extra sense of security whilst in bed.





Source

Z_Driver

iTrader: (3)

What's interesting about this is the only time in my life someone held a gun on me was in London. It was a Zip gun (Homemade). On shot wonder. Yes, the authorities were upset but, said these were starting to show up in London.

Low J.

Well....it's pretty easy.....you prosecute and jail criminals. Disarming people who don't commit crimes does nothing but put us at the mercy of armed criminals.

Fear Night

LOL

To keep with the middle age theme their constables should be forced to carry 13th century two-hand swords and full iron armor.

jjdaily

As a soldier that just returned from Iraq, I have learned an important lession regarding people and the use of weapons. I used to believe that carrying a weapon was for those who did not get enough attention as a child or had a serious case of paranoia. But while I was over there, I met people unlike any of which most of you have encountered. TO some degree a criminal is known qauntity in this country. They want you money or possessions, but rarely your life (which, of course does not stop them from taking it by any means).

Over there, I met some people that killed for the pleasure of killing. Occasionally they kill in the name of politics or God, but in the end, they smile as they kill indisciminently. It taught me that there are some poeple who you can not reason with, you cannot 'make them listen to your side' or 'change their ways'. These people just are. These are people that can and will kill you just for sport. If you dont think that an element of this humanity does not exist in our country then I suggest you all get a reality check.

I own a gun, I carry a large caliber and I will wilfully discharge that weapon in defense of my family or those around me who are in danger (good samaritan law). The difference in my owning a weapon and many people in this forum, is that I have been trained to use it, and have seen first hand the physical and emotional damage its use can bring. If i use it, I know it will be soley to kill, and not driven by emotion or anger. It is a huge responisibilty own a gun and having the power to take a life, but I will never again be put in a position were someone else can take my life or those around me without any input from me.

Joshua Daily