Drove an A/T for the first time yesterday....
Originally Posted by Darthvol
I don't think you read my earlier post: I've owned, and tracked, MTs in the past and have put probably about twice the amount of miles on MTs over the years than I have ATs. And you also didn't address the flip side of my proposition--how about if I drive to a race with you in my AT, get out of my brainless car, borrow someone's 6MT, hop into it cold and smoke your heinie in your own MT--what say you then? And as for brainless--how about repeatedly pumping the left leg literally hundreds of times over the course of an hour while creeping along at less than 5 mph? OOOOOOO, SPORTY!!
Your senario it idiotic...You have years of tracking MT etc so why wouldnt you be able to switch from AT and beat someone using an MT...Pretty crazy post.
As usual you guys avoid what Im saying and try to make it a Me vs YOU proposition..Everyone of my post have been about the superiority of the MT over the AT in performance driving be it track or canyon carving...Its well documented over decades. Beating me wont change that FACT. Again why is MT the choice of Autocrossers and Curcuit track rats?????They could easily bring an AT Vette, Porsche, Z etc but noooo...They use the MT....Hmmmmmmmmm..Im sure in the future you will be seeing more of these electrohydrolic manuals showing up and winning at these racing events but never AT's as we know it now
You still don't address the argument, either, about assuming that if you don't currently drive an MT, you're not any good at it. It's just absurd to make those kinds of assumptions about a DRIVER of ANY car. I could care less whether YOU think an AT is a TRUE sports car or not--I object to insulting the skills of drivers of any car to drive a manual sports car just because they aren't driving one at the time.
OBJECTION OVERRULED
....You're in contempt...Bailiff remove him...You are really something ..How you can take what Im saying as a personal stab at you is beyond me. Bottomline is the majority of the masses drive AT...You put them behind the wheel of an MT and its a learning curve...Just because you can do it[because of all your previous MT experience 
]doesnt mean the majority can...Really silly arguments you came up with...
Yes, you can throw out the "Dr. Phil" stuff if you wanna, but there's a reason folks like you seem to get so upset and resort to insults and name calling. I'm not diagnosing anything, but if someone enjoys those type of things, it's pretty clear to everyone with a little, old-fashioned common sense that the reason they do it is to make themselves feel better. Enjoy!
I guess your psyche degree didnt allow you to "diagnose" the stick in your butt thats making you get all hot and bothered at someone who, using "old-fasioned common sense", is clearly having fun ribbing the Velvet 5at Mafia. You guys need to stop taking yourselves so seriously..Relax
One last thing, dude: "whinny" is what a horse does; the insult you were searching for was "whiny"
Finally something you are qualified to diagnose...You are right I guess...I bow to the Horse Wisperer.
.
Your senario it idiotic...You have years of tracking MT etc so why wouldnt you be able to switch from AT and beat someone using an MT...Pretty crazy post.
As usual you guys avoid what Im saying and try to make it a Me vs YOU proposition..Everyone of my post have been about the superiority of the MT over the AT in performance driving be it track or canyon carving...Its well documented over decades. Beating me wont change that FACT. Again why is MT the choice of Autocrossers and Curcuit track rats?????They could easily bring an AT Vette, Porsche, Z etc but noooo...They use the MT....Hmmmmmmmmm..Im sure in the future you will be seeing more of these electrohydrolic manuals showing up and winning at these racing events but never AT's as we know it now You still don't address the argument, either, about assuming that if you don't currently drive an MT, you're not any good at it. It's just absurd to make those kinds of assumptions about a DRIVER of ANY car. I could care less whether YOU think an AT is a TRUE sports car or not--I object to insulting the skills of drivers of any car to drive a manual sports car just because they aren't driving one at the time.
OBJECTION OVERRULED
....You're in contempt...Bailiff remove him...You are really something ..How you can take what Im saying as a personal stab at you is beyond me. Bottomline is the majority of the masses drive AT...You put them behind the wheel of an MT and its a learning curve...Just because you can do it[because of all your previous MT experience ]doesnt mean the majority can...Really silly arguments you came up with...Yes, you can throw out the "Dr. Phil" stuff if you wanna, but there's a reason folks like you seem to get so upset and resort to insults and name calling. I'm not diagnosing anything, but if someone enjoys those type of things, it's pretty clear to everyone with a little, old-fashioned common sense that the reason they do it is to make themselves feel better. Enjoy!
I guess your psyche degree didnt allow you to "diagnose" the stick in your butt thats making you get all hot and bothered at someone who, using "old-fasioned common sense", is clearly having fun ribbing the Velvet 5at Mafia. You guys need to stop taking yourselves so seriously..Relax
One last thing, dude: "whinny" is what a horse does; the insult you were searching for was "whiny"
Finally something you are qualified to diagnose...You are right I guess...I bow to the Horse Wisperer.
.
Last edited by SnakeBitten; Nov 17, 2005 at 12:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by SnakeBitten
Last edited by Aggro_Al; Nov 17, 2005 at 08:34 PM.
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Originally Posted by SnakeBitten
Also, I have no idea whether I'd beat you or not. My questions were directed to how you'd feel if someone did. I have no way of knowing how much experience you have, but you talk like you don't have much. I'm an old enough codger (in this forum's terms, anyway, at 38) to have logged about 300,000 miles on MT cars.
What I'm questioning, bottom line, is the absurdity of someone who gets smoked in his MT by, say, an M-B E55AMG, and then thinks to himself, "Oh, well, he's probably an old, spoiled, rich guy anyway who can't appreciate a true sports car with his poser AT!" Whatever anyone's reason for thinking that, they sound like pathetic, jealous, sour grapes.
I have a law partner w/an M-B, another w/a Porsche, and I'm not fond of German cars overall, BUT if someone can blow my doors off w/one, be it AT, SMG, CVT, or MT, regardless of what my car is, they've got bragging rights, and I shouldn't be shooting my mouth off about having a "better" sports car. Shoot, if the guy who outruns you does it in an old muscle car w/Bondo and primer on it, or w/Fred & Barney's feet sticking out from beneath the car, you can laugh at him, call him a hick or a redneck, or trot out some other insult, but his car was good enough to beat you. Period.
Of course, you can still console yourself with the fact that you're the better person, what with all those volunteer visits you make to the nursing home, right?
Now that I have admitted my profession, I await with eager anticipation your attempt to flame with an original lawyer insult. Ouch, ouch, no, no, help, I can't handle the flames, aaaaaah
BTW, AT mafia, what AT mafia? I don't think they exist, but if they do, aren't you afraid aggro, one of the smartest car guys on the forum, might have a connection who could make sure you sleep with thee feeeshes?
Originally Posted by Darthvol
Methinks YOU are the one who sounds sensitive. One might say I argue for a living, but to paraphrase John Cleese, I also enjoy arguing in my spare time. And again, I don't have any psych degree, but I do have a degree which actually qualifies me to overrule your objection.
Also, I have no idea whether I'd beat you or not. My questions were directed to how you'd feel if someone did. I have no way of knowing how much experience you have, but you talk like you don't have much. I'm an old enough codger (in this forum's terms, anyway, at 38) to have logged about 300,000 miles on MT cars.
What I'm questioning, bottom line, is the absurdity of someone who gets smoked in his MT by, say, an M-B E55AMG, and then thinks to himself, "Oh, well, he's probably an old, spoiled, rich guy anyway who can't appreciate a true sports car with his poser AT!" Whatever anyone's reason for thinking that, they sound like pathetic, jealous, sour grapes.
I have a law partner w/an M-B, another w/a Porsche, and I'm not fond of German cars overall, BUT if someone can blow my doors off w/one, be it AT, SMG, CVT, or MT, regardless of what my car is, they've got bragging rights, and I shouldn't be shooting my mouth off about having a "better" sports car. Shoot, if the guy who outruns you does it in an old muscle car w/Bondo and primer on it, or w/Fred & Barney's feet sticking out from beneath the car, you can laugh at him, call him a hick or a redneck, or trot out some other insult, but his car was good enough to beat you. Period.
Of course, you can still console yourself with the fact that you're the better person, what with all those volunteer visits you make to the nursing home, right?
Now that I have admitted my profession, I await with eager anticipation your attempt to flame with an original lawyer insult. Ouch, ouch, no, no, help, I can't handle the flames, aaaaaah
BTW, AT mafia, what AT mafia? I don't think they exist, but if they do, aren't you afraid aggro, one of the smartest car guys on the forum, might have a connection who could make sure you sleep with thee feeeshes?
Also, I have no idea whether I'd beat you or not. My questions were directed to how you'd feel if someone did. I have no way of knowing how much experience you have, but you talk like you don't have much. I'm an old enough codger (in this forum's terms, anyway, at 38) to have logged about 300,000 miles on MT cars.
What I'm questioning, bottom line, is the absurdity of someone who gets smoked in his MT by, say, an M-B E55AMG, and then thinks to himself, "Oh, well, he's probably an old, spoiled, rich guy anyway who can't appreciate a true sports car with his poser AT!" Whatever anyone's reason for thinking that, they sound like pathetic, jealous, sour grapes.
I have a law partner w/an M-B, another w/a Porsche, and I'm not fond of German cars overall, BUT if someone can blow my doors off w/one, be it AT, SMG, CVT, or MT, regardless of what my car is, they've got bragging rights, and I shouldn't be shooting my mouth off about having a "better" sports car. Shoot, if the guy who outruns you does it in an old muscle car w/Bondo and primer on it, or w/Fred & Barney's feet sticking out from beneath the car, you can laugh at him, call him a hick or a redneck, or trot out some other insult, but his car was good enough to beat you. Period.
Of course, you can still console yourself with the fact that you're the better person, what with all those volunteer visits you make to the nursing home, right?
Now that I have admitted my profession, I await with eager anticipation your attempt to flame with an original lawyer insult. Ouch, ouch, no, no, help, I can't handle the flames, aaaaaah
BTW, AT mafia, what AT mafia? I don't think they exist, but if they do, aren't you afraid aggro, one of the smartest car guys on the forum, might have a connection who could make sure you sleep with thee feeeshes?
Or my MT being better than all AT cars or any of that pseudo-psychological nonsence...We are talking AT vs MT in the same model car be it Z, Vette, M3 etc.....The MT is almost always the faster one on strip or curcuit track. The MT version is always considered the TRUE sportscar....Its been documented over and over and over and over but still you ostriches want to keep your heads in the sand. Why dont you 5at Mafia guys answer me as to why the MT is the choice of grassroots on up to autocrosser to semi pro racers???Are these racers delusional because they dont agree with your view that the AT is just as good as the MT on track???Or maybe your Bruce Cutler stand-in Darthvol, can answer that question since hes a spiffy lawyer
You keep avoiding the facts and decades of evidence just to spout the ole pc addages. There are things in life you just have to accept even if it something you dont like. You can challenge me, make it personal with me etc no problem...But at the end of the day MT[in what ever evolved form] will still be the choice of the majority of serious track rats, canyon carvers...No amount of whinning[is this right Horse Wisperer?]tantrums etc is gonna change that fact...
BTW the 5at Mafia thing is what you would call ribbing etc... Surely a lawyer of your caliber and advanced age can easily see sarcasm when it rears its ugly head
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Originally Posted by SnakeBitten
LOL...You guys are the greatest. Again you are all missing the point...It has nothing to do with an MB,Porsche,Vette AT beating an MT Z...Different cars with an obvious power advantages. Or me being better than you Or my MT being better than all AT cars or any of that pseudo-psychological nonsence...We are talking AT vs MT in the same model car be it Z, Vette, M3 etc.....The MT is almost always the faster one on strip or curcuit track. The MT version is always considered the TRUE sportscar....Its been documented over and over and over and over but still you ostriches want to keep your heads in the sand.
Why dont you 5at Mafia guys answer me as to why the MT is the choice of grassroots on up to autocrosser to semi pro racers???Are these racers delusional because they dont agree with your view that the AT is just as good as the MT on track???Or maybe your Bruce Cutler stand-in Darthvol, can answer that question since hes a spiffy lawyer
You keep avoiding the facts and decades of evidence just to spout the ole pc addages. There are things in life you just have to accept even if it something you dont like. You can challenge me, make it personal with me etc no problem...But at the end of the day MT[in what ever evolved form] will still be the choice of the majority of serious track rats, canyon carvers...No amount of whinning[is this right Horse Wisperer?]tantrums etc is gonna change that fact...
BTW the 5at Mafia thing is what you would call ribbing etc... Surely a lawyer of your caliber and advanced age can easily see sarcasm when it rears its ugly head
Or my MT being better than all AT cars or any of that pseudo-psychological nonsence...We are talking AT vs MT in the same model car be it Z, Vette, M3 etc.....The MT is almost always the faster one on strip or curcuit track. The MT version is always considered the TRUE sportscar....Its been documented over and over and over and over but still you ostriches want to keep your heads in the sand. Why dont you 5at Mafia guys answer me as to why the MT is the choice of grassroots on up to autocrosser to semi pro racers???Are these racers delusional because they dont agree with your view that the AT is just as good as the MT on track???Or maybe your Bruce Cutler stand-in Darthvol, can answer that question since hes a spiffy lawyer
You keep avoiding the facts and decades of evidence just to spout the ole pc addages. There are things in life you just have to accept even if it something you dont like. You can challenge me, make it personal with me etc no problem...But at the end of the day MT[in what ever evolved form] will still be the choice of the majority of serious track rats, canyon carvers...No amount of whinning[is this right Horse Wisperer?]tantrums etc is gonna change that fact...
BTW the 5at Mafia thing is what you would call ribbing etc... Surely a lawyer of your caliber and advanced age can easily see sarcasm when it rears its ugly head
And speaking of Seinfeld, I'll bet he knows sarcasm when he hears it; attempting to humorously compare the mentality of AT Z drivers to la cosa nostra is more like a funny simile than sarcasm. Were I to say, "Oh, dude, you're really a brilliant guy, alright!", then THAT would be sarcasm, as was your calling me a "spiffy" lawyer. Again, it's whining, not whinning, and whispering, not wispering. It's nonsense, not nonsence. But good job on the Cutler reference; Dennis Miller would be proud, bubbagonoosh!
But most importantly, not a single post I have seen on this or any other of the blue million threads in the AT v. MT debate on this forum has denied that EVERYTHING being equal, bone stock 5AT Z v. 6MT Z, the manual will almost always be a couple ticks faster IF AND ONLY IF the 6MT driver is skilled. If you had just stated that to begin with as your only point, you wouldn't have made any resistance, especially with the stock rear gear on the 5AT being a skosh slower out of the hole.
The AT folks aren't annoyed that someone knows the "fact" that a 6MT w/a great driver can beat an AT Z w/the same driver; it's the "an auto will NEVER be a TRUE sports car" crap that rankles folks. Since when does slightly slower = not a true sports car?
In any event, what I find to be completely hilarious from anyone w/a 6MT Z who enjoys trying to get a rise out of the AT crowd is that some of the major automotive press doesn't seem to think ANY of our cars, at least stock, are TRUE sports cars anymore. For example, R&T did a comparo track test to determine the "Best All-Around Sports Car"; '05 6MT Anniv. Edition came in next to last, only beating the softly sprung SLK. The editors voiced disappointment in the Z, as it finished dead last on many parts of the track, and concluded that it isn't a "true enthusiast's car anymore".
You'd think Z owners would stick together and try to get along a little better with each other, but as usual, you'd be wrong.
Thank you, Darthvol! Good post....
I have a 5AT that I "canyon carve" with a buddy of mine at least twice a month. He has an MT with almost the same mods (my wheels are heavier) and we eat up the twisties. When he has the lead, I am inches from hitting his bumper in and out of every turn. That right there kills the arguement about not being able to find the right gear and engine break.
After our first ever run, he was amazed that I, one who has never been on a track, AND in a 5AT can hang with him and his "superior" 6MT
Anyway, if you were one of the nature freaks that sit out there staring at trees and bushes and happend to see us blaze by you... you wouldn't know the difference! You wouldn't know who had the MT Z!
You'd say "d@mn them Zs are fast!"
I have a 5AT that I "canyon carve" with a buddy of mine at least twice a month. He has an MT with almost the same mods (my wheels are heavier) and we eat up the twisties. When he has the lead, I am inches from hitting his bumper in and out of every turn. That right there kills the arguement about not being able to find the right gear and engine break.
After our first ever run, he was amazed that I, one who has never been on a track, AND in a 5AT can hang with him and his "superior" 6MT
Anyway, if you were one of the nature freaks that sit out there staring at trees and bushes and happend to see us blaze by you... you wouldn't know the difference! You wouldn't know who had the MT Z!
You'd say "d@mn them Zs are fast!"
Originally Posted by Darthvol
Oh, I can easily see sarcasm; I actually like it. And yes, I know it was a feeble attempt at Don Rickles-esque insult humor, I simply thought it was both stupid and in poor taste (I'm OK w/some humor in poor taste, if it's really funny, but even the guys who agree with your points don't seem to think you're the next Seinfeld, when it comes to funny).
Bruce you think Im losing sleep because a stuffed shirt thinks a little ribbing is in poor taste?
If thats what equates poor taste to you, you dont get out much...Oh and Don Rickles????Geezer arent we BTW the ribbing doesnt have to be funny it just has to have its desired effect..Hook line and sinker...Damn I even hooked a shiney suit lawyer. 
And speaking of Seinfeld, I'll bet he knows sarcasm when he hears it; attempting to humorously compare the mentality of AT Z drivers to la cosa nostra is more like a funny simile than sarcasm. Were I to say, "Oh, dude, you're really a brilliant guy, alright!", then THAT would be sarcasm, as was your calling me a "spiffy" lawyer. Again, it's whining, not whinning, and whispering, not wispering. It's nonsense, not nonsence. But good job on the Cutler reference; Dennis Miller would be proud, bubbagonoosh!
LOL..I guess I deserve the spelling corrections since I did get at another member about that...touche....Im dazzled by your superior vocabulary skills
Looks like the 5at Mafia have shelled out major bucks for a decent attourney thats got at least 1 Spelling B championship under his belt...What ever will I do..
But most importantly, not a single post I have seen on this or any other of the blue million threads in the AT v. MT debate on this forum has denied that EVERYTHING being equal, bone stock 5AT Z v. 6MT Z, the manual will almost always be a couple ticks faster IF AND ONLY IF the 6MT driver is skilled. If you had just stated that to begin with as your only point, you wouldn't have made any resistance, especially with the stock rear gear on the 5AT being a skosh slower out of the hole.
The AT folks aren't annoyed that someone knows the "fact" that a 6MT w/a great driver can beat an AT Z w/the same driver; it's the "an auto will NEVER be a TRUE sports car" crap that rankles folks. Since when does slightly slower = not a true sports car?
Then you havent been reading some of these posts. BTW why is an M3 not a true sportscar? Because its got back seats. Similar reasoning behind any AT sportscar. Not that AT Vettes etc are not sportscars but that its missing one piece of the traditional sportscar puzzle..Traditionally a true sportscar has had 2 seats and a manual shifter..The AT Z has 2 seats so IT IS a sportscar, as Ive said before, but the AT spoils it for most automotive press drivers and sportscar nutz around the world. ...Like Clarkson or Tiff said[dont remember exactly which one], a proper sportscar should have a manual shifter. If you guys cant handle that then you should write the autopress and lobby them till they change the definition to suit your liking..I think you are the perfect guy to get that ball rolling DarthCutler
In any event, what I find to be completely hilarious from anyone w/a 6MT Z who enjoys trying to get a rise out of the AT crowd is that some of the major automotive press doesn't seem to think ANY of our cars, at least stock, are TRUE sports cars anymore. For example, R&T did a comparo track test to determine the "Best All-Around Sports Car"; '05 6MT Anniv. Edition came in next to last, only beating the softly sprung SLK. The editors voiced disappointment in the Z, as it finished dead last on many parts of the track, and concluded that it isn't a "true enthusiast's car anymore".
You'd think Z owners would stick together and try to get along a little better with each other, but as usual, you'd be wrong.
Got a link? Would like to see the cars it lost to...So because NOW one mag says the Z is not that great vs the newer competition it means it sucks as a sportscar or is not a sportscar???Sometimes your arguments are really reaching..Win any cases lately? ...I can find many articles that say the Z is "sportscar bargain" "real sportscar" etc......Thats a debate for another thread my man...
BTW some of my best friends drive AT So Im not a prejudice
Bruce you think Im losing sleep because a stuffed shirt thinks a little ribbing is in poor taste?
If thats what equates poor taste to you, you dont get out much...Oh and Don Rickles????Geezer arent we BTW the ribbing doesnt have to be funny it just has to have its desired effect..Hook line and sinker...Damn I even hooked a shiney suit lawyer. And speaking of Seinfeld, I'll bet he knows sarcasm when he hears it; attempting to humorously compare the mentality of AT Z drivers to la cosa nostra is more like a funny simile than sarcasm. Were I to say, "Oh, dude, you're really a brilliant guy, alright!", then THAT would be sarcasm, as was your calling me a "spiffy" lawyer. Again, it's whining, not whinning, and whispering, not wispering. It's nonsense, not nonsence. But good job on the Cutler reference; Dennis Miller would be proud, bubbagonoosh!
LOL..I guess I deserve the spelling corrections since I did get at another member about that...touche....Im dazzled by your superior vocabulary skills
Looks like the 5at Mafia have shelled out major bucks for a decent attourney thats got at least 1 Spelling B championship under his belt...What ever will I do.. But most importantly, not a single post I have seen on this or any other of the blue million threads in the AT v. MT debate on this forum has denied that EVERYTHING being equal, bone stock 5AT Z v. 6MT Z, the manual will almost always be a couple ticks faster IF AND ONLY IF the 6MT driver is skilled. If you had just stated that to begin with as your only point, you wouldn't have made any resistance, especially with the stock rear gear on the 5AT being a skosh slower out of the hole.
The AT folks aren't annoyed that someone knows the "fact" that a 6MT w/a great driver can beat an AT Z w/the same driver; it's the "an auto will NEVER be a TRUE sports car" crap that rankles folks. Since when does slightly slower = not a true sports car?
Then you havent been reading some of these posts. BTW why is an M3 not a true sportscar? Because its got back seats. Similar reasoning behind any AT sportscar. Not that AT Vettes etc are not sportscars but that its missing one piece of the traditional sportscar puzzle..Traditionally a true sportscar has had 2 seats and a manual shifter..The AT Z has 2 seats so IT IS a sportscar, as Ive said before, but the AT spoils it for most automotive press drivers and sportscar nutz around the world. ...Like Clarkson or Tiff said[dont remember exactly which one], a proper sportscar should have a manual shifter. If you guys cant handle that then you should write the autopress and lobby them till they change the definition to suit your liking..I think you are the perfect guy to get that ball rolling DarthCutler
In any event, what I find to be completely hilarious from anyone w/a 6MT Z who enjoys trying to get a rise out of the AT crowd is that some of the major automotive press doesn't seem to think ANY of our cars, at least stock, are TRUE sports cars anymore. For example, R&T did a comparo track test to determine the "Best All-Around Sports Car"; '05 6MT Anniv. Edition came in next to last, only beating the softly sprung SLK. The editors voiced disappointment in the Z, as it finished dead last on many parts of the track, and concluded that it isn't a "true enthusiast's car anymore".
You'd think Z owners would stick together and try to get along a little better with each other, but as usual, you'd be wrong.
Got a link? Would like to see the cars it lost to...So because NOW one mag says the Z is not that great vs the newer competition it means it sucks as a sportscar or is not a sportscar???Sometimes your arguments are really reaching..Win any cases lately?
...I can find many articles that say the Z is "sportscar bargain" "real sportscar" etc......Thats a debate for another thread my man... BTW some of my best friends drive AT
So Im not a prejudice
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From: Here and There
Compromise (?):
1) Most traditionalists do consider MT's to be closer to sportscar heritage, but...
2) I'm pretty sure no one would question whether or not the Veyron and SLR are "sportscars" (heck, they're even "supercars"!) --> therefore, this classification of "sportscar" is not based on transmissions anymore.
(that R&T article mentioned other criteria, like # of seats, etc, etc, etc)
1) Most traditionalists do consider MT's to be closer to sportscar heritage, but...
2) I'm pretty sure no one would question whether or not the Veyron and SLR are "sportscars" (heck, they're even "supercars"!) --> therefore, this classification of "sportscar" is not based on transmissions anymore.
(that R&T article mentioned other criteria, like # of seats, etc, etc, etc)
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Originally Posted by zpak
Compromise (?):
1) Most traditionalists do consider MT's to be closer to sportscar heritage, but...
2) I'm pretty sure no one would question whether or not the Veyron and SLR are "sportscars" (heck, they're even "supercars"!) --> therefore, this classification of "sportscar" is not based on transmissions anymore.
(that R&T article mentioned other criteria, like # of seats, etc, etc, etc)
1) Most traditionalists do consider MT's to be closer to sportscar heritage, but...
2) I'm pretty sure no one would question whether or not the Veyron and SLR are "sportscars" (heck, they're even "supercars"!) --> therefore, this classification of "sportscar" is not based on transmissions anymore.
(that R&T article mentioned other criteria, like # of seats, etc, etc, etc)
I'm with the MT guys...don't throw in the high end exoctics and think that makes up for the AT.
Originally Posted by DrVolkl
Comparing an auto Z to an SLR or Veyron is like Apples and Sushi...you're not even close.
I'm with the MT guys...don't throw in the high end exoctics and think that makes up for the AT.
I'm with the MT guys...don't throw in the high end exoctics and think that makes up for the AT.
Agreed...
It's like arguing if mountain bikes should have gears or not, then throwing motorcycles in the mix.
Originally Posted by MeetJoeAsian
I have a 6 speed manual...and sometimes I wonder if the automatic actually picks up better with the tiptronic shifting thinggy...and I've always wonder, maybe I would like the automatic a lot better since I wouldn't have to shift in rush hour and stuff...well...yesterday, I had an opportunity to take one out for a spin...and oooh, I do NOT regret getting a 6speed....sitting in a Z without manual leaves you nuthing to do....and everytime I floored the car, it takes forever for it to search gear.....and the pickup is usually not that powerful either....even in that automatic shift mode, it didn't catch right away...and of course, you don't hear the roaring of the engine as good as the 6speed.....i guess, for some of us who can't handle a true sport car for what it is, well....what's the point of owning an true sport car with A/T????....I will never regret my choice again....
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There is more to a sportscar than what you shift with. Suspension/handling, Performance, Style...Some people prefer manuals and some people prefer auto's that doesn't make either one a better/worse driver. I'll admit driving stick is fun but not everyone can, physically or knowledgably. Downing someone and their ride for what they shift with is just childish. Show love to your fellow Z owners not cause another war.
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From: Here and There
Originally Posted by DrVolkl
Comparing an auto Z to an SLR or Veyron is like Apples and Sushi...you're not even close.
I'm with the MT guys...don't throw in the high end exoctics and think that makes up for the AT.
I'm with the MT guys...don't throw in the high end exoctics and think that makes up for the AT.
I AM an "MT guy"!
Last 3 cars were MT! Just trying to broker a little PEACE, you know? 
And I'm not comparing the Z to these cars, only their transmissions. The point stands that the "super" cars don't have MT's but are still considered "sports cars", which I don't consider a false statement.
Originally Posted by abyss
...Some people prefer manuals and some people prefer auto's that doesn't make either one a better/worse driver.
Yes it does. What you prefer has nothing to do with which is actually proven to be better at a certain application ie driving..This is exactly my point. MT better for track, more complete sportscar driving experience period as some others have also said...AT better for city, cruising etc. Both designed with a different driver in mind...
Downing someone and their ride for what they shift with is just childish. Show love to your fellow Z owners not cause another war.
You and others call it "downing", "poor taste" ...I call it friendly ribbing with a little dose of reality mixed in. I like all sportscars regardless of transmission but I also know there is a difference in the quality of the driving experience between a traditional AT and an MT version of the same car...Saying they both offer the same driving experience is ludacrous...Then why offer a choice of transmission in the first place??? Why gear the MT towards the "serious driver"???Why do mag tester always request the MT version of the car to be tested??Why do grassroots racing on up to professional use MT versions of sportscars????Why is the MT version 99% of the time faster then the AT version?...Answer those questions truthfully and these threads wont be necessary...
Its like the M3 threads...Some people just dont want to accept the truth.
Its posts like this that gloss over the truth with some PC wordage that keeps me posting...
Yes it does. What you prefer has nothing to do with which is actually proven to be better at a certain application ie driving..This is exactly my point. MT better for track, more complete sportscar driving experience period as some others have also said...AT better for city, cruising etc. Both designed with a different driver in mind...
Downing someone and their ride for what they shift with is just childish. Show love to your fellow Z owners not cause another war.
You and others call it "downing", "poor taste"
...I call it friendly ribbing with a little dose of reality mixed in. I like all sportscars regardless of transmission but I also know there is a difference in the quality of the driving experience between a traditional AT and an MT version of the same car...Saying they both offer the same driving experience is ludacrous...Then why offer a choice of transmission in the first place??? Why gear the MT towards the "serious driver"???Why do mag tester always request the MT version of the car to be tested??Why do grassroots racing on up to professional use MT versions of sportscars????Why is the MT version 99% of the time faster then the AT version?...Answer those questions truthfully and these threads wont be necessary...Its like the M3 threads...Some people just dont want to accept the truth.
Its posts like this that gloss over the truth with some PC wordage that keeps me posting...
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Colombo
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Nov 9, 2020 10:27 AM
