nj1266

I read the paragraph below and I am concerned about the 350Z.

"Using a “drive-by-wire” mechanism, there is no mechanical connection between the gas pedal and the engine. Instead, the position of the throttle is controlled by the Engine Control Module (ECM) via a DC motor called a throttle actuator. When the driver pushes on the accelerator pedal, it moves a potentiometer and sends a voltage sign to the ECM. The ECM takes the driver’s wishes “under advisement” as it consults with the Traction Control System and Transmission Control Module to make sure there is no reason to moderate the driver’s commands. If all is well, the throttle actuator carries out the driver’s command to open the throttle. The process occurs almost instantaneously and results in precise throttle control with positive impact on fuel efficiency and emissions control."

This is from the Nissan web site. I really do not like the idea of a computer controlling my car to such an extent. I race cars for a hobby and I can ssure you that I do not need the traction control system to mess with my inputs into the car on a race course. I really hope that the 350Z has a button to turn off TCS. I hate drive by wire. When I push the accelerator at WOT I expect WOT. I do not want a computer to tell me that "all is well" on the track. I know how to handle the track. If I am going to get the car it will be to hotlap it and eventually race it. I am thinking of either the Enthusiast model or the Performance modle. I think the Track model is over kill. I really doubt that the car needs the Brembo brakes and I can get my own lightweight cheap rims.

Please tell me that the driver can turn off TCS and VDC and all the other electronic gizmos that interfere with driving a car on the track. I do not mind the TCS and the VDC on the street, but on the track I want to be in control. I had also hoped that the car will come with ABS as an option. Most racers do not want ABS and would rather modulate their own brakes.

christurismohk

iTrader: (2)

This has been discussed before, I am sure you can find the answer if you search.

BrianZ

The vast bulk of modern cars are very computerized. If this is a concern, then I suggest going back to carburated, cable actuated cars.

Of course, then you'll have a whole different set of problems....

NSANY

In the incredibly unlikely event that your drive-by-wire system would malfunction, I'm sure there are safeties which federal transportation law mandates which would ensure you don't rocket away at MACH 2.

When manufacturers start talking about steering-by-wire, then you might want to show some concern...

nj1266

Some of you are really touchy. You guys act as if I offended your parents or something. Lighten up, it is just a car.

Drive-by-wire is a fairly new technology. It has started to spread since 2000-01 model cars. I do not like it and I do not think that when you go WOT, you get WOT. My brother owns a Spec V and it has drive by wire and we are having a hard time extracting power from a CAI due to the relationship between the throttle and the ECU. An AEM CAI only netted us 0.1 hp and 4 lb-ft of torque.

You do not need TCS and VDC on the track. Just ask any one who races for a hobby or a living. Even F1 turns off TC after the start of the race. In F1 TC is used for starts. F1 cars do not have ABS either.

I know how to drive on the track, thank you. I do not need a computer to interfere with my racing. If you have any doubts about what I have done to my race car, then go here http://www.geocities.com/n_dahi

nj1266

Yes they do, you just have not searched. Some of The lightest wheels are the Volks. I have a set of TE 37s in 15X7 and they weigh a mere 9 lbs per rim. But they are expensive as hell. A rim costs around $340. You can get a set of Axis Mag lights in 15X7 for $140 and they weigh 11 lbs. They are not as light as the Volks, but they are cheap. Notice that your quote never mentioned cast or forged

You can also get many 15X6.5 rims from Konig that weigh close to 10-11 lbs for around $140. The Konig Helium is one. It is light weight and cheap.

I also have a set of Kosei K1s in 15X7 that weighs around 12 lbs for the price of $139. Again cheaper than the Volks and does a damn good job on the track.

Intrepid

Play nice people.

The drive by wire throttle is fairly new. I've never owned a car with it before. Interesting to see how it's different.

raceboy

Not trying to be touchy here but in F1 the traction control IS used throughout the race and not just at the start as you stated. Traction control was made legal again in F1 after attempts to police it had obiously failed as you would hear the throttle feathering out of corners at a faster than human pace. At the end of the race the computer would simply dump the traction control code from it's memory to never be found in post race tech. Yes my friend, even Shuei needs a little help. As of this year, traction control has also been reintroduced in CART as well.

I don't know if my 15+ years of racing experience matches yours (started in karts at 15 years old) but people will get touchy when you make emphatic statements that are actually wrong. Especially when you could have just used the search feature and found your answer.

Traffic

With respect to the Sentra, you probably need to adjust the ECU for the intake. I can't see any other reason why you would only extract 0.1 HP at any RPM. Other drive-by-wire cars like the Jetta and Beetle do not experience DBW interference with intakes or exhausts.

Your quote is a bit inaccurate. It's not that TCS and VDC aren't necessary on the track, it's that they're illegal. TCS, ABS and VDC would make any race car much more faster, since the driver can push the car past its limit without the same consequence that would result without those aids. The thrill in racing is the driver pushing the car right to the limit, and TCS and VDC invalidate that with their wizardry.

While the Brembos may not be absolutely necessary for street driving, the holes and slots(?) greatly reduce fade. And if you've raced, you know brake fade is about the most frustrating and sometimes terrifying experience. Personally, I'm picking up the base model so I can slap on cross-drilled and slotted 13" Brembos, which should hopefully be on par or superior to those on the Track Model. After all, you can never have brakes that are too powerful.

But, in all honesty, if you don't like or trust drive-by-wire, ABS, VDC, and TCS, then by all means get an older sports car like the RX-7 or Supra. The RX-7 is a better track car than the 350Z would probably ever be.

Brad4rdHay

Drive-by-wire is not some computer interference. Its just a more reliable and in most cases, more exacting way of delivering your imput to the throtle. All Ferrari's Aston Martins ect have this.

john0213

yeah people, let's shut his mouth off!!LOL~

nj1266

First, you have to crack the ECU code. This has not been done yet on the Spec V. JWT has not come out with an ECU for the Spec V and I doubt they will until some time pases. The new ECUs manage more and more of the car than ever before. They are very tough to crack by the aftermarket. I do not know about Jettas and Beetles, but my experience with drive-by-wire Nissans led me to make that statement.

It depends on what type of racing your talking about. In the NASA racing and SCCA IT racing they are not illegal. I race in NASA and there is no mention in the rule book about the legality or illegality of VDC and TCS.

I disagree that a car will be faster on a race course with TCS and VDC. The computer reacts the same way all the time. sometimes you need to trail brake when entering a corner, sometimes you need to steer with the throttle, sometimes you want the car to push or be loose a bit. The computer will not allow you to do these. Why would Nissan have an on/off switch for these if they will make you fater on the track. Just keep them on all the time. TCS and VDC are designed for your average everyday driving on the street. On the track all is different.
All you need is a good set of race brake pads, Motul 600 brake fluid, and steel braided brake lines. That is all you need to upgrade the stock brakes on the 350Z. With those upgrades I have not had brake fade on the NX 2000 brakes on my 200SX SE-R. You can also cryotreat your rotors to resist cracking under extreme heat.
I want the enthusiast model or the preformance model. You will need the VLSD which is not available on the base model. I think that the car should have had a mechanical LSD instead of the viscous one. The one on the Spec V is great. It is just like the Quaife.

nj1266

You are right. I was thinking of launch control. My mistake, my apology.

z350z

My current car uses drive-by-wire and the throttle response is just fine. The new Mercedes SL uses brake-by-wire, which sounds a bit scary (but there's a mechanical backup). Let's look at this realistically: these things are added to cars presumably becauswe there is some advantage to doing so; if it made things worse, they wouldn't do it (it's not cheaper). Enjoy progress, or if you don't like advances in technology, get a vintage car.

rai

Um.. the wheels you mention are 15". Hello the Rays 0n the Z are 18". It's easy for you to throw out light and cheap 15" wheels. By definition 15" wheels are lighter and cheaper than 18" wheels. Why not go find a 12"wheel that weighs 6 pounds and costs $75. Now were talking light and cheap

I don't know why you are even posting on this board. If you don't like TC and VDC you can get the base model or turn them off, thats why there is an on/off switch. If you don't like ABS and brake force distribution and throttle by wire you can get any number of old cars. Deal with it.

nj1266

Why would I research 18 inch rims if I have a race car that can take 15 inch rims. Just as I was able to find cheap and light weight 15 inch rims, I am certain that I can find cheap and lightweight 18 inch rims. It is not that hard. There are zillions of rim makers that will accomodate your every whim. All you need to do is search for them. If you can provide me with the price and the weight of the Rays rims on the 350Z I will find you cheaper and lightweight alternatives. Guaranteed. I cannot possibly find lightweight/cheap 18 inch rims w/o knowing the weight/price of the Rays on the 350Z!!!
As I said before I want the VLSD on the car. This is not available in the base car. If the base car had the VLSD, I will get it in a heartbeat. I read the nissannews site and I could not find some answers and that is why I am here.

Enforcer

Well, I just hope the ECU SW isn't written by M$. Sure would be hell to have a blue screen "Fatal Exception 0E Has Occured" at 156mph!

Enforcer

wxtornado

Just a car?


"And I suppose your mother was just a mother..."
--- Arthur "The Fonz" Fonzerelli

articfury

nj-

Let's try this one more time...

If you don't want to use the VDC or TCS, turn them off.

"I disagree that a car will be faster on a race course with TCS and VDC. "

Obviously, it is impossible to make a blanket statement that such electronic aids benefit a racecar. After all, some moron may do the programming. In such a case, the system may not allow the vehicle to perform to its best. But, in the hand of a good technician, these electronic aids will assist the driver to lap quicker. I believe the statement Daytona made about the systems being illegal was based on the larger, professional sanctioning bodies. This is why ABS and electronic dampening aren't allowed in F1. They would be even faster...and probably cause greater disparity between the leaders and back markers. Again, it comes down to the programming.

"The computer reacts the same way all the time."

This does not have to be the case. It will react as it is programmed to react. If adaptive logic is part of it's programming then it will "learn" what you need it to do in different cases.

"All you need is a good set of race brake pads, Motul 600 brake fluid, and steel braided brake lines. "

Do you believe that base model brakes and the track Brembos will perform the same with these upgrades?

"My brother owns a Spec V and it has drive by wire and we are having a hard time extracting power from a CAI due to the relationship between the throttle and the ECU"

Why do you believe that it is the DBW/throttle that are causing the problems? Other ODBII cars have had the exact same problem, without DBW. As you have stated, the ECU needs to be reprogrammed. For example, the IS300's ECU would not allow for as great a benefit from an intake upgrade, and would reset eventually learn a new map that took away any benefit given by the intake. Nothing to do with its throttle.

"Why would I research 18 inch rims if I have a race car that can take 15 inch rims."

Well, when you are referencing a car that has 17/18 in wheels (not rims) people will kind of believe that the discussion is about similarly sized wheels. Afterall, if you were to use 15" rims on a 350Z Track model, you would have a choice to make. REALLY tall sidewalls or re-gear the car (which would more than negate any cost savings of the wheel/tires, at least the 1st set) Oh, and if you go with the later, you may need to raise the car for clearance.


As for coming here for answers, if you have researched you question (i.e. used the Search function, browsed the forums) and couldn't find your answer, we will be more than happy to answer your questions. Oh, and the answers were in the first two responses to your post.

JD