I applaud you MT drivers. I really do...
#202
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Originally Posted by Kolia
Last time I checked, the auto Z had a torque converter.
Now, if you want to count the clutches that lock the transmission gears in the context of the current discussion, you certainly had some good stuff to smoke...
Now, if you want to count the clutches that lock the transmission gears in the context of the current discussion, you certainly had some good stuff to smoke...
#204
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Originally Posted by HDPD350Z
A clutch is a clutch. To pretend they don't exist in AT's is ignorant.
What is your definition of a clutch?
--Spike
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Originally Posted by JCSVT
The ATs do have clutches. A lot of them.
What the ATs don't have is a driver/mechanically operated clutch.
What the ATs don't have is a driver/mechanically operated clutch.
#207
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Originally Posted by Spike100
I did a little research and couldn't find any clutch mechanism on an AT equipped Z. We may be arguing semantics here.
What is your definition of a clutch?
--Spike
What is your definition of a clutch?
--Spike
#208
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Originally Posted by LeMans 05
Yeah, but the highly important link between engine and transmission is a torque converter, not a clutch, right?
And in the current context, it was clear to everybody involved the term clutch applied exclusively to that function...
Geeks will be geeks...
#209
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Originally Posted by Kolia
Yep.
And in the current context, it was clear to everybody involved the term clutch applied exclusively to that function...
Geeks will be geeks...
And in the current context, it was clear to everybody involved the term clutch applied exclusively to that function...
Geeks will be geeks...
#210
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Originally Posted by HDPD350Z
And in the current context, alot of you are incorrect. The major differences between AT/MT's are not clutches. Call me a geek if you want, but if you are going to argue, then be correct about your argument.
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ht=bosch+kolia
The presence of a driver actuated clutch has everything to do with the difference of an MT and AT!
#211
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Originally Posted by HDPD350Z
The clutches are part of the planetary gear set.
Probably the most accurate post comes from LeMans 05
Originally Posted by LeMans 05
Yeah, but the highly important link between engine and transmission is a torque converter, not a clutch, right?
This is a different arrangement in cars with a manual transmission or a semi-automatic transmission, where the engine connects directly to the transmission using the selected gear.
--Spike
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And a paddle-shifted automatic with a torque converter (Z) is vastly different than a paddle-shifted automatic with a true clutch (Ferrari, M3). Both are now inferior to the new dual-clutch systems (VW).
And while I have no argument that the auto is fast, shifts strong, etc., the point I've been trying to make is that you are not truly driving unless you have 3 pedals and a shifter that can go into any gear at any time, not just sequentially shift. There's no need to get defensive over your choice of an automatic. There are many valid reasons to buy one. Fowlman, for instance, must drive an automatic. However, to those who bought the automatic due to lack of skill or laziness, well, I hear Camrys are really nice.
And while I have no argument that the auto is fast, shifts strong, etc., the point I've been trying to make is that you are not truly driving unless you have 3 pedals and a shifter that can go into any gear at any time, not just sequentially shift. There's no need to get defensive over your choice of an automatic. There are many valid reasons to buy one. Fowlman, for instance, must drive an automatic. However, to those who bought the automatic due to lack of skill or laziness, well, I hear Camrys are really nice.
#214
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Originally Posted by Kolia
Spike100, in many modern AT's torque converter are almost always locked. You can still get engine braking and play with the throttle to adjust the weight transfer.
This MT vs. AT argument comes up frequently on the Forum, and it’s interesting that it never is resolved as the debaters stubbornly cling to their definitions.
If you agree that there are three basic categories (manual transmission, semi-automatic transmission and automatic transmission), there are definitions of these that should provide some insight as to the differences in these types of transmissions.
MT’s and semiautomatics are appropriately classified together since both use a clutch (often two clutches with semi-automatic transmissions), and both directly connect a selected gear to the car’s engine. The difference is a MT uses a clutch pedal to disengage the transmission from the engine and a gear shift to select a gear, while semi-automatic transmissions have no clutch pedal and use an electronically activated clutch (often two clutches) to disengage/engage the transmission along with paddles to select a gear.
An automatic transmission is much more complicated. An AT uses a torque converter to connect “gearing” to the engine, but the “guts” inside the torque converter are varied and often quite sophisticated. There might be a series of gears all with their own “clutch” mechanism, or a continuously variable transmission (CVT).
You can see why this argument is not easily resolved since definitions always bring the debate to a contest using definitions.
--Spike
#215
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Originally Posted by Spike100
Certainly that is true.
This MT vs. AT argument comes up frequently on the Forum, and it’s interesting that it never is resolved as the debaters stubbornly cling to their definitions.
If you agree that there are three basic categories (manual transmission, semi-automatic transmission and automatic transmission), there are definitions of these that should provide some insight as to the differences in these types of transmissions.
MT’s and semiautomatics are appropriately classified together since both use a clutch (often two clutches with semi-automatic transmissions), and both directly connect a selected gear to the car’s engine. The difference is a MT uses a clutch pedal to disengage the transmission from the engine and a gear shift to select a gear, while semi-automatic transmissions have no clutch pedal and use an electronically activated clutch (often two clutches) to disengage/engage the transmission along with paddles to select a gear.
An automatic transmission is much more complicated. An AT uses a torque converter to connect “gearing” to the engine, but the “guts” inside the torque converter are varied and often quite sophisticated. There might be a series of gears all with their own “clutch” mechanism, or a continuously variable transmission (CVT).
You can see why this argument is not easily resolved since definitions always bring the debate to a contest using definitions.
--Spike
This MT vs. AT argument comes up frequently on the Forum, and it’s interesting that it never is resolved as the debaters stubbornly cling to their definitions.
If you agree that there are three basic categories (manual transmission, semi-automatic transmission and automatic transmission), there are definitions of these that should provide some insight as to the differences in these types of transmissions.
MT’s and semiautomatics are appropriately classified together since both use a clutch (often two clutches with semi-automatic transmissions), and both directly connect a selected gear to the car’s engine. The difference is a MT uses a clutch pedal to disengage the transmission from the engine and a gear shift to select a gear, while semi-automatic transmissions have no clutch pedal and use an electronically activated clutch (often two clutches) to disengage/engage the transmission along with paddles to select a gear.
An automatic transmission is much more complicated. An AT uses a torque converter to connect “gearing” to the engine, but the “guts” inside the torque converter are varied and often quite sophisticated. There might be a series of gears all with their own “clutch” mechanism, or a continuously variable transmission (CVT).
You can see why this argument is not easily resolved since definitions always bring the debate to a contest using definitions.
--Spike
The only manual transmission is one where the operator needs to actuate a clutch manually in order to change gears.
#217
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Originally Posted by Kolia
Well, BOSCH and as far had I know, the whole industry, puts the semi-auto transmissions in the "auto" category. All of these have an "auto" mode anyways!
The only manual transmission is one where the operator needs to actuate a clutch manually in order to change gears.
The only manual transmission is one where the operator needs to actuate a clutch manually in order to change gears.
--Spike
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Originally Posted by Spike100
This MT vs. AT argument comes up frequently on the Forum, and it’s interesting that it never is resolved as the debaters stubbornly cling to their definitions.
#219
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The only automatic cars I've ever driven have been when I took drivers ed, and occasionally at work. Funnily enough, I've never actually commuted anywhere in an AT car When I was first learning to MT at 14, I assumed everyone already knew how to drive it. Turned out when I turned 16 only 1 other person I knew had learned. Thankgod for my mom teaching me, since she's been driving MT cars for over 30 years. If not for her I'd probably be stuck driving an auto corolla
#220
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Originally Posted by HDPD350Z
This debate often arises from the select group of individuals who insist on demeaning the owners of AT 350Z's. If maturity levels were a wee bit higher, these threads wouldn't exist.