LeMans 05

iTrader: (1)

Nope

HDPDZO6

A clutch is a clutch. To pretend they don't exist in AT's is ignorant.

JCSVT

The ATs do have clutches. A lot of them.

What the ATs don't have is a driver/mechanically operated clutch.

Spike100

I did a little research and couldn't find any clutch mechanism on an AT equipped Z. We may be arguing semantics here.

What is your definition of a clutch?

--Spike

LeMans 05

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, but the highly important link between engine and transmission is a torque converter, not a clutch, right?

HDPDZO6

Agree.

HDPDZO6

The clutches are part of the planetary gear set.

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Yep.

And in the current context, it was clear to everybody involved the term clutch applied exclusively to that function...

Geeks will be geeks...

HDPDZO6

And in the current context, alot of you are incorrect. The major differences between AT/MT's are not clutches. Call me a geek if you want, but if you are going to argue, then be correct about your argument.

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

The automotive industry classifies a transmission as being automatic or manual depending on what or who is in charge of decoupling the drive train from the engine. (Semi-automatic falls into the automatic category)

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ht=bosch+kolia

The presence of a driver actuated clutch has everything to do with the difference of an MT and AT!

Spike100

Yes… and I see where you are going with this. This is why the old AT vs. MT argument always degenerates into semantics and definitions.

Probably the most accurate post comes from LeMans 05
In an AT, the “clutch” (if you want to call it this) or clutches connect gears (or whatever you want to call this) to a torque converter, and the torque converter connects the transmission to the engine.

This is a different arrangement in cars with a manual transmission or a semi-automatic transmission, where the engine connects directly to the transmission using the selected gear.

--Spike

LeMans 05

iTrader: (1)

And a paddle-shifted automatic with a torque converter (Z) is vastly different than a paddle-shifted automatic with a true clutch (Ferrari, M3). Both are now inferior to the new dual-clutch systems (VW).
And while I have no argument that the auto is fast, shifts strong, etc., the point I've been trying to make is that you are not truly driving unless you have 3 pedals and a shifter that can go into any gear at any time, not just sequentially shift. There's no need to get defensive over your choice of an automatic. There are many valid reasons to buy one. Fowlman, for instance, must drive an automatic. However, to those who bought the automatic due to lack of skill or laziness, well, I hear Camrys are really nice.

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Spike100, in many modern AT's torque converter are almost always locked. You can still get engine braking and play with the throttle to adjust the weight transfer.

Spike100

Certainly that is true.

This MT vs. AT argument comes up frequently on the Forum, and it’s interesting that it never is resolved as the debaters stubbornly cling to their definitions.

If you agree that there are three basic categories (manual transmission, semi-automatic transmission and automatic transmission), there are definitions of these that should provide some insight as to the differences in these types of transmissions.

MT’s and semiautomatics are appropriately classified together since both use a clutch (often two clutches with semi-automatic transmissions), and both directly connect a selected gear to the car’s engine. The difference is a MT uses a clutch pedal to disengage the transmission from the engine and a gear shift to select a gear, while semi-automatic transmissions have no clutch pedal and use an electronically activated clutch (often two clutches) to disengage/engage the transmission along with paddles to select a gear.

An automatic transmission is much more complicated. An AT uses a torque converter to connect “gearing” to the engine, but the “guts” inside the torque converter are varied and often quite sophisticated. There might be a series of gears all with their own “clutch” mechanism, or a continuously variable transmission (CVT).

You can see why this argument is not easily resolved since definitions always bring the debate to a contest using definitions.

--Spike

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Well, BOSCH and as far had I know, the whole industry, puts the semi-auto transmissions in the "auto" category. All of these have an "auto" mode anyways!

The only manual transmission is one where the operator needs to actuate a clutch manually in order to change gears.

LeMans 05

iTrader: (1)

... and the only one that won't shift itself

Spike100

You're probably right. When you put a semi-automatic (consumer version vs. racing version) into 1st gear or reverse gear, it actually morphs into an AT mode using a pressure plate or torque converter so you can stand still without having the engine die as it idles down.

--Spike

HDPDZO6

This debate often arises from the select group of individuals who insist on demeaning the owners of AT 350Z's. If maturity levels were a wee bit higher, these threads wouldn't exist.

SiNzz

iTrader: (4)

The only automatic cars I've ever driven have been when I took drivers ed, and occasionally at work. Funnily enough, I've never actually commuted anywhere in an AT car When I was first learning to MT at 14, I assumed everyone already knew how to drive it. Turned out when I turned 16 only 1 other person I knew had learned. Thankgod for my mom teaching me, since she's been driving MT cars for over 30 years. If not for her I'd probably be stuck driving an auto corolla

fowlman01

iTrader: (1)

Both transmissions have their place and I like 6MT's, I just can't daily drive a car with a clutch because I have a bad left knee. I get annoyed when someone thinks they have a bigger dick cuz they have a manual tranny and have never driven the 5AT. I have road raced my 5AT and it does quite well and I will also add I don't have smoking brakes like the 6MT guys do after a few laps. For some reason I can pull a similarly equipped Z with a 6MT coming out of the turns. I suppose it has something to do with the gearing of the 5AT. A comment like "the 5AT takes 1-2 seconds to shift" just shows the person has never driven one.