Redline Time Attack! @ Buttonwillow Dec 2 & 3
11-10-2006, 02:34 PM
#41
Originally Posted by SuperKool
Yes, for street class, it's always been 140 or higher.
Anything lower then 140 gets moved to Modified class.
The Falken RT-615 is good for street class.
Anything lower then 140 gets moved to Modified class.
The Falken RT-615 is good for street class.
11-10-2006, 06:36 PM
#42
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Eagle1
Well that does make much more sense then, putting it into three classes. Essentially "race slicks" or close equivalents, DOT-R, and street. All other things being equal, each such category of tire is probably good for 5 seconds per lap timing difference.
Last edited by knight_white99; 11-10-2006 at 06:41 PM.
11-10-2006, 06:39 PM
#43
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SuperKool
Yes, for street class, it's always been 140 or higher.
Anything lower then 140 gets moved to Modified class.
The Falken RT-615 is good for street class.
Anything lower then 140 gets moved to Modified class.
The Falken RT-615 is good for street class.
Do you agree that R-compound tires like RA-1's are worth 5 seconds a lap at Buttonwillow (configuration #13)?
11-10-2006, 08:52 PM
#44
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by knight_white99
Chris, it doesn't appear that too many people have signed up yet for the time attack - or have you just not posted them yet?
Do you agree that R-compound tires like RA-1's are worth 5 seconds a lap at Buttonwillow (configuration #13)?
Do you agree that R-compound tires like RA-1's are worth 5 seconds a lap at Buttonwillow (configuration #13)?
There are a lot of people that are signing up this next week.
I've talked to many drivers who are coming that have not yet registered.
I know for sure the R-Comps like RA-1 or Nitto NT-01 are good for at least 3 seconds per lap. I'm sure for some cars and drivers a 5 second gain could be made just buy using the R-Comps.
11-11-2006, 05:51 AM
#45
Steve:
Certainly it depends on the track. The key is a combination of the skill of the driver and the tires, in particular the ability to extract the additional adhesion of the R compound in the turns. It does not have to be a fast track like Cal Speedway or Willow Springs, but it does help more when you have at least two significant straights following tight turns, and you can grab an extra 2-3mph or more in the corner exit speed. That really carries with you all the way down the ensuing straight. This benefit will translate to every car, irrespective of the type of power it is putting down. Theoretically, if you are at the limits of adhesion in the application of turning forces, you can be very low horsepower and still break it loose by putting down just a tickle of power. However, as you unwind and use less of the tire for turning, you get on power sooner and harder with the increased grip. The only proof you need is to observe Spec Miata performance at Laguna Seca. They take the high speed turns fabulously, and the only way they lose is when the high horsepower beasts pull them on the long uphill climbs were the high speed torque differnce kills them. I measure my "happiness" not by blowing by them on the straights, but by keeping up with or chewing down the gap on them in the turns, as that is driver related, not just what is under the hood. (Don't get me wrong, blowing by them under the bridge in the front straight with a 35-40mph speed differential is fun...it just has nothing to do with me!) The corner entry is the next important part of the equation. So, we can readily see that whether you are taking big beast power to the game, or a little sewing machine powered sled, the tire will "potentially" give the set up materially faster times. The additional grip comes in very nicely for straight line braking too, allowing you to carry your speed deeper and longer down the straight before initiation of braking...more time saved. There are mid corner gains too of course, but those are problematic and much smaller, only making a difference overall with the better class of skill drivers as they are hard to extract reliably without goofing up the exit speed...the most important of the variables.
So the big question is "do you have it in you"? as the driver to be able to use that extra grip? For most pilots that answer in the early part of their driving experience is a resounding "no". So save your money and get your skill sets up to feeling the limits and understanding how to work the most out of the tire. Use up your stockers, then perhaps go to a softer but still "street" compound. Another reason is that most street tires are "talkers". They squeal and groan and if we pay attention we learn what they are saying to us, and why. Most of your R compounds are not so vocal. They mumble. You have to have a better hearing and anticipation, and with so much of their capacity associated with grip at the limits...they let go with much less warning....another reason for a novice not to mess with them, as they propel the pilot into dicey situations at higher speeds than street tires. As for "slicks" , they "whisper". There really is not a need to deal with those unless you are racing competition or have taken your skills and your interest/objective to working at establishing personal best times...something most of us are not that cranked up about. Who cares in this particular set up? The key is "driving". Anyway, about 3 cents worth of value in this one.
Certainly it depends on the track. The key is a combination of the skill of the driver and the tires, in particular the ability to extract the additional adhesion of the R compound in the turns. It does not have to be a fast track like Cal Speedway or Willow Springs, but it does help more when you have at least two significant straights following tight turns, and you can grab an extra 2-3mph or more in the corner exit speed. That really carries with you all the way down the ensuing straight. This benefit will translate to every car, irrespective of the type of power it is putting down. Theoretically, if you are at the limits of adhesion in the application of turning forces, you can be very low horsepower and still break it loose by putting down just a tickle of power. However, as you unwind and use less of the tire for turning, you get on power sooner and harder with the increased grip. The only proof you need is to observe Spec Miata performance at Laguna Seca. They take the high speed turns fabulously, and the only way they lose is when the high horsepower beasts pull them on the long uphill climbs were the high speed torque differnce kills them. I measure my "happiness" not by blowing by them on the straights, but by keeping up with or chewing down the gap on them in the turns, as that is driver related, not just what is under the hood. (Don't get me wrong, blowing by them under the bridge in the front straight with a 35-40mph speed differential is fun...it just has nothing to do with me!) The corner entry is the next important part of the equation. So, we can readily see that whether you are taking big beast power to the game, or a little sewing machine powered sled, the tire will "potentially" give the set up materially faster times. The additional grip comes in very nicely for straight line braking too, allowing you to carry your speed deeper and longer down the straight before initiation of braking...more time saved. There are mid corner gains too of course, but those are problematic and much smaller, only making a difference overall with the better class of skill drivers as they are hard to extract reliably without goofing up the exit speed...the most important of the variables.
So the big question is "do you have it in you"? as the driver to be able to use that extra grip? For most pilots that answer in the early part of their driving experience is a resounding "no". So save your money and get your skill sets up to feeling the limits and understanding how to work the most out of the tire. Use up your stockers, then perhaps go to a softer but still "street" compound. Another reason is that most street tires are "talkers". They squeal and groan and if we pay attention we learn what they are saying to us, and why. Most of your R compounds are not so vocal. They mumble. You have to have a better hearing and anticipation, and with so much of their capacity associated with grip at the limits...they let go with much less warning....another reason for a novice not to mess with them, as they propel the pilot into dicey situations at higher speeds than street tires. As for "slicks" , they "whisper". There really is not a need to deal with those unless you are racing competition or have taken your skills and your interest/objective to working at establishing personal best times...something most of us are not that cranked up about. Who cares in this particular set up? The key is "driving". Anyway, about 3 cents worth of value in this one.
11-11-2006, 06:23 AM
#46
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always enjoy reading your detailed analyses, Ed. And a lot of good advice there. 
I actually have MUCH more on-track experience with R-compound tires and slicks than I do with street tires. You're right, they tend to give less warning at the limit, but I also think that they can be slid more predictably if the car is set up right. Car setup is critical for this though. (There is nothing quite as fun as sliding a good handling car through a fast corner like turn 1 at Sebring! There is also nothing as annoying as driving a car that you know is fast but the setup is off and you can't use the car to it's full potential.) I am a firm believer that what separates the fast guys from the average driver is being able to corner at the limit virutally all the time.
I have also had the experience of driving on slicks that were so old that they did nothing but slide around and every corner was an exercise in car control. In that case, I would rather drive on street tires! Cold slicks can also be treacherous for a lap or two until they build up some heat (I have first hand experience with hitting a wall due to cold slicks.) Street tires are usually better in their first few laps and then get greasy after a few hot laps.
I will have to say that street tires have come a long way in the past few years. I think street tires of today are almost as good as R-compound tires of 10 or 15 years ago. (Just my opinion.)
I actually have MUCH more on-track experience with R-compound tires and slicks than I do with street tires. You're right, they tend to give less warning at the limit, but I also think that they can be slid more predictably if the car is set up right. Car setup is critical for this though. (There is nothing quite as fun as sliding a good handling car through a fast corner like turn 1 at Sebring! There is also nothing as annoying as driving a car that you know is fast but the setup is off and you can't use the car to it's full potential.) I am a firm believer that what separates the fast guys from the average driver is being able to corner at the limit virutally all the time.
I have also had the experience of driving on slicks that were so old that they did nothing but slide around and every corner was an exercise in car control. In that case, I would rather drive on street tires! Cold slicks can also be treacherous for a lap or two until they build up some heat (I have first hand experience with hitting a wall due to cold slicks.) Street tires are usually better in their first few laps and then get greasy after a few hot laps.
I will have to say that street tires have come a long way in the past few years. I think street tires of today are almost as good as R-compound tires of 10 or 15 years ago. (Just my opinion.)
11-30-2006, 03:39 PM
#48
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey everyone!
Only a few more days until the next Redline:Time Attack! event. We have been receiving about 10 signups per day for the last few days, so if you are interested in coming out on Saturday or Sunday, I suggest signing up soon. It is highly likely that we will reach our maximum capacity for this event.
If you are interested in the "Show & Shine" at this event, there is no charge. Just show up at the gate, pay the admission fee, and tell the person at the gate you want to be in the car show. We'll direct you where to park.
Weather is forecasted to be in the low 60's and Sunny. So come on out to the track to either drive, race or spectate and expect to have a great time.
Only a few more days until the next Redline:Time Attack! event. We have been receiving about 10 signups per day for the last few days, so if you are interested in coming out on Saturday or Sunday, I suggest signing up soon. It is highly likely that we will reach our maximum capacity for this event.
If you are interested in the "Show & Shine" at this event, there is no charge. Just show up at the gate, pay the admission fee, and tell the person at the gate you want to be in the car show. We'll direct you where to park.
Weather is forecasted to be in the low 60's and Sunny. So come on out to the track to either drive, race or spectate and expect to have a great time.
11-30-2006, 04:37 PM
#50
Hey Mike! I have decided to come, so I signed up for modified class. Probably finish last, but "Mr. Magoo Racing" will be there! (Hope I find my glasses. Today filling up I almost put race fuel in the back seat of the car next to me. Getting old sucks. The only thing good is that you pass people without really knowing they were there to begin with.)
11-30-2006, 05:26 PM
#54
Originally Posted by 350ZNV
I am sure you will not get in our way. If you can't find your glasses I am sure you will be wandering somewhere around the Star-Mazda turn anyway.
11-30-2006, 05:26 PM
#55
Originally Posted by Eagle1
The big problem now is getting the colostomy bag under the harness without blocking things. At least I can keep my teeth in the console cubby without losing them like last time.
Please though, this time remember to turn your blinker off.
11-30-2006, 06:41 PM
#56
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh the visuals.... Please though, this time remember to turn your blinker off.
Wow. There will be at least one VRT powered 350Z or G35 in each of the Street, Modified and Unlimited classes!
See you guys there. Let's go for the sweep!
Last edited by knight_white99; 11-30-2006 at 06:44 PM.
12-01-2006, 01:55 AM
#57
Banned
iTrader: (24)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by knight_white99
Yeah, I think tha't more info than I need to know!
Wow. There will be at least one VRT powered 350Z or G35 in each of the Street, Modified and Unlimited classes!
See you guys there. Let's go for the sweep!
Wow. There will be at least one VRT powered 350Z or G35 in each of the Street, Modified and Unlimited classes!
See you guys there. Let's go for the sweep!
12-04-2006, 02:56 PM
#60
A good amount of Zs and Gs there for sure...
Scott Bush (WA2GOOD) Stillen charged G35 - Practice only.
Bob Sauer (NavyGolf13) Built JWT TT 350Z - Practice only.
Steve Mitchell M-Works XS Engineering 350Z - Blown motor during practice.
Mike Alvarez (mraturbo) JWT TT 350Z - Modified RWD 3rd Place, Unlimited RWD 2nd Place
Ed Reiser (Eagle1) Built JWT TT G35 - Modified RWD
Me - Built JWT TT 350Z - Street RWD, Modified RWD, Unlimited RWD
John (12autox) - Street RWD
Avo - Procharged G35 - Practice only.
Steve Mott (knight_white99)- JWT TT 350Z - Street RWD
Scott Bush (WA2GOOD) Stillen charged G35 - Practice only.
Bob Sauer (NavyGolf13) Built JWT TT 350Z - Practice only.
Steve Mitchell M-Works XS Engineering 350Z - Blown motor during practice.
Mike Alvarez (mraturbo) JWT TT 350Z - Modified RWD 3rd Place, Unlimited RWD 2nd Place
Ed Reiser (Eagle1) Built JWT TT G35 - Modified RWD
Me
- Built JWT TT 350Z - Street RWD, Modified RWD, Unlimited RWDJohn (12autox) - Street RWD
Avo - Procharged G35 - Practice only.
Steve Mott (knight_white99)- JWT TT 350Z - Street RWD
Last edited by SinCity350Z; 12-04-2006 at 06:22 PM.