Redline Time Attack! @ Buttonwillow Dec 2 & 3
12-04-2006, 06:41 PM
#64
Originally Posted by skidmarq
Wow, great pics, thanks for sharing! How did you do?
.I did ok, but not near what I should have I don't think. Something is not right with the suspension, weather it be the settings, the products, or something is bent or broken, I don't know. Its just not handling quite as well as it should. Its very easily upset with any bumps while other cars, like Mike's yellow VRT 350Z arent really affected by them. Put it this way, the yellow 350Z has the same coilovers, same size and brand tire (285/315 Hoosier), and for the event, we both had the same whp. The differences in the two cars are the brand of sway bar, body kit, and the fact that the yellow Z still has a fully stock interior with the exception of the driver's seat. The yellow Z ran a 1:57 and my fastest known time was a 2:02 with a passenger. I am almost positive I ran faster than that, but unless you are in the top 3 in your class, you don't get to know your time until its posted on the internet after the event, and they still aren't posted. I do, however know that it was slower than the 3rd place time of 2:00.5xx. It was unanamous that the yellow Z was just plain faster than mine with any driver and my Z should have been in the 1:55 1:56 range probably. Also the yellow Z was running the same times on Nitto NT-01 R Compounds as my car was on Hoosiers. Who knows, but its at VRT right now being dicected to try and de-bug the issue.
The yellow VRT 350Z placed 2nd in Unlimited RWD and 3rd in Modified RWD, nobody else from the VRT camp placed in the top 3 of their respective classes.
12-05-2006, 04:54 AM
#65
"The yellow VRT 350Z placed 2nd in Unlimited RWD and 3rd in Modified RWD, nobody else from the VRT camp placed in the top 3 of their respective classes."
However, with the exception of Mike's car (which did have the heavy rear hatch reinstalled in place of the Lexan so it could run street tires and then meet the criteria for the street class if they wanted to do that), all of the VRT cars were stock interiors or daily drivers with the stereo/air conditioning and all the other goodies, which is part of the VRT approach. Daily drivers that can perform admirably on the track is the concept. Many of the cars in the other classes that we were running against and beating were fully stripped out and caged, dedicated track cars without carpets, roof liners, door panels etc. And the VRT cars were all in that range of about 5 seconds in lap times, and just behind the podium finishers. That is very satisfying considering the compromises made to keep the car "civilized". That and the fact that not one of the VRT cars had an engine problem in two days of hard slamming around the track. Or a transmission-drivetrain problem. No failures of any kind that kept a car off the track. They are not full on race cars and not intended to be, but they sure got a lot of attention from the fans who could identify with them and go..."wow, you mean you drive this to work? Cool!"
Mike really was scooting fast the second and last timing session, and on his last lap or two really tossed it hard through the "bus stop" corner...a particularly dicey turn that took a lot of spins from drivers pushing that extra one tenth for a good lap. We were all on the wall watching his session and have a perfect view of that section of track as he exited the "cotton corners" and hammered it down the back, through the kink flat out without lifting (you can hear the motor clearly and with the huge horsepower he was putting down and the twitchy handling....about three of us simultaneously went "ooooo......") And he just whooshed through clean and then into the high speed sweeper called "riverside", a 95+ mph turn that has all four tires singing out that you are creamed chipped beef on toast (aka "S.O.S.") if you lose it there. The "sunset" turn before the front straight and the "carousel" before the esses were also gobbling up a lot of drivers. Mike was on it and driving well for sure.
The best news is we all had a lot of fun, nobody got hurt or even scratched, and the cars did well. A bit of body work had to be addressed on the fronts of a couple cars. Everybody at one time or another went off during the weekend, so the limits were being pushed. Even though we trailered the cars, everybody could have driven home in them if they wanted to.
However, with the exception of Mike's car (which did have the heavy rear hatch reinstalled in place of the Lexan so it could run street tires and then meet the criteria for the street class if they wanted to do that), all of the VRT cars were stock interiors or daily drivers with the stereo/air conditioning and all the other goodies, which is part of the VRT approach. Daily drivers that can perform admirably on the track is the concept. Many of the cars in the other classes that we were running against and beating were fully stripped out and caged, dedicated track cars without carpets, roof liners, door panels etc. And the VRT cars were all in that range of about 5 seconds in lap times, and just behind the podium finishers. That is very satisfying considering the compromises made to keep the car "civilized". That and the fact that not one of the VRT cars had an engine problem in two days of hard slamming around the track. Or a transmission-drivetrain problem. No failures of any kind that kept a car off the track. They are not full on race cars and not intended to be, but they sure got a lot of attention from the fans who could identify with them and go..."wow, you mean you drive this to work? Cool!"
Mike really was scooting fast the second and last timing session, and on his last lap or two really tossed it hard through the "bus stop" corner...a particularly dicey turn that took a lot of spins from drivers pushing that extra one tenth for a good lap. We were all on the wall watching his session and have a perfect view of that section of track as he exited the "cotton corners" and hammered it down the back, through the kink flat out without lifting (you can hear the motor clearly and with the huge horsepower he was putting down and the twitchy handling....about three of us simultaneously went "ooooo......") And he just whooshed through clean and then into the high speed sweeper called "riverside", a 95+ mph turn that has all four tires singing out that you are creamed chipped beef on toast (aka "S.O.S.") if you lose it there. The "sunset" turn before the front straight and the "carousel" before the esses were also gobbling up a lot of drivers. Mike was on it and driving well for sure.
The best news is we all had a lot of fun, nobody got hurt or even scratched, and the cars did well. A bit of body work had to be addressed on the fronts of a couple cars. Everybody at one time or another went off during the weekend, so the limits were being pushed. Even though we trailered the cars, everybody could have driven home in them if they wanted to.
12-05-2006, 07:48 AM
#66
^^^Thanks Ed. None of the cars disapointed me, thats for sure. Another thing is in addition to competing against some full blown factory track cars, a lot of cars had hired professional drivers to turn those lap times. Some of those guys, like Tanner Faust, not only know how to drive a car, but they themselves are a good 50 lbs. lighter than I am lol .
I think a true testament to the VRT motor build for this event goes to my car. Scott drove it from San Diego to Buttonwillow, it was the only car to run all 3 classes back to back with about 5 min. in between to change tires, and then Scott drove it back down to San Diego without one sinlgle mechanical problem.
.I think a true testament to the VRT motor build for this event goes to my car. Scott drove it from San Diego to Buttonwillow, it was the only car to run all 3 classes back to back with about 5 min. in between to change tires, and then Scott drove it back down to San Diego without one sinlgle mechanical problem.
12-05-2006, 08:11 AM
#67
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This was my first weekend at Buttonwillow, and my first Time Attack. The course was exceptionally fast- with my NA car on OEM rotors and springs, I was hitting 100+ MPH in two spots and 95 in two others. The HPDE day went well, but I ended my Time Atack day early because my rear Porterfield brake pads went from 50% to 10% (squealing the wear indicators) after the first round of racing! Kind of sucks, but it was a blast. I found the limits on almost every corner, and am confident that my one good run was within 95% of my ability with the car in its current tune. I managed a 2:16 on street tires, up from my 2:15 the evening before. Not bad for only a few mods.
I got to ride with Steve Mott, and was very impressed by both the car and driver. He pulled out a 2:07 on street tires, battling a boost problem that was very frustrating. I spoke with Chris Rado for a while. He was real down-to-earth and thrilled to participate in road courses after years of drag racing. It was awsome to see so many Z's and G's out there. The 12 hour drive was a bit much though.
I got to ride with Steve Mott, and was very impressed by both the car and driver. He pulled out a 2:07 on street tires, battling a boost problem that was very frustrating. I spoke with Chris Rado for a while. He was real down-to-earth and thrilled to participate in road courses after years of drag racing. It was awsome to see so many Z's and G's out there. The 12 hour drive was a bit much though.
12-05-2006, 08:16 AM
#68
Originally Posted by 12AutoX
This was my first weekend at Buttonwillow, and my first Time Attack. The course was exceptionally fast- with my NA car on OEM rotors and springs, I was hitting 100+ MPH in two spots and 95 in two others. The HPDE day went well, but I ended my Time Atack day early because my rear Porterfield brake pads went from 50% to 10% (squealing the wear indicators) after the first round of racing! Kind of sucks, but it was a blast. I found the limits on almost every corner, and am confident that my one good run was within 95% of my ability with the car in its current tune. I managed a 2:16 on street tires, up from my 2:15 the evening before. Not bad for only a few mods.
I got to ride with Steve Mott, and was very impressed by both the car and driver. He pulled out a 2:07 on street tires, battling a boost problem that was very frustrating. I spoke with Chris Rado for a while. He was real down-to-earth and thrilled to participate in road courses after years of drag racing. It was awsome to see so many Z's and G's out there. The 12 hour drive was a bit much though.
I got to ride with Steve Mott, and was very impressed by both the car and driver. He pulled out a 2:07 on street tires, battling a boost problem that was very frustrating. I spoke with Chris Rado for a while. He was real down-to-earth and thrilled to participate in road courses after years of drag racing. It was awsome to see so many Z's and G's out there. The 12 hour drive was a bit much though.
12-05-2006, 12:51 PM
#69
The front end of Mike B's car looked like Rocky Balboa's face! Now we know why he got a car with a paint job the same color as duct tape. Unfortunately she saw a little more of the flora and geology of the area than desired (not with Mike at the wheel all the time either) and the structural strength was about equivalent to that of a milk carton. Nice looking, but it was deforming under way. Got a neat scraping noise flying down the front straight at 120mph+.
12-05-2006, 12:57 PM
#70
^^^Yep. As much as I loved the way the kit looked and its aerodynamic advantages, it disturbs me to say that the quality of the product is not up to par when it comes to the regular abuse of track racing. I never thought I would say this, but the C-West kit is a functional show kit only. Sadly, I will not be running their product anymore for the fact that it just doesn't hold up to the abuse.
12-05-2006, 06:20 PM
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Wow guys, excellent write ups; this is one of my favorite threads in a long time!
I am salivating at the thought of something like this a little farther north as the long drive down I-5 would be just a little too much
I am salivating at the thought of something like this a little farther north as the long drive down I-5 would be just a little too much
12-05-2006, 06:26 PM
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Thanks for sharing all the pics, Mike!
And many thanks to John for his help in getting my car back into action after my "off" on Saturday. That auto-x and drifting experience paid big dividends for you. You did great for your first time attack. Just wait until you get those new big brakes!
I was battling a few things on Sunday - over-boosting, a car that went into "limp" mode 4 times on the track while at speed (you can't imagine how frustrating that was), a funky brake pedal (we bled the brakes like 5 times and I still had a soft pedal that I had to pump into every hard braking corner), and an exhaust leak. I bet I had another 2 seconds left in the car had I not had to deal with those problems. Just the brake issue alone cost me precious seconds pumping the middle pedal when I could have had my right foot on the gas. The brakes themselves stopped the car well - no issue on the Rotora pads or brake parts. Maybe a leak or something with the master cylinder?
That said, my aero parts worked great. I had the wing, my Kognition sponsored carbon fiber air dam and splitter, and my "secret weapon" rear diffuser. That really got a lot of attention. Too bad the picture above doesn't show that on the car (I didn't install it until later in the day on Saturday). The car was a rock through the fast sweeper and I was able to carry speed over Lost Hill and get on the gas immediately over the crest. It also helped the car in the last turn onto the front straight - otherwise, I think I would have slid off the track there more than once.
I will be taking the car back to VRT to build my motor so that I can run higher boost safely and have that big power that Mike and mraturbo have. Plus I'll have more CF light parts (hood and hatch as a minimum). So we'll be back, bigger and better than ever next time!
And many thanks to John for his help in getting my car back into action after my "off" on Saturday. That auto-x and drifting experience paid big dividends for you. You did great for your first time attack. Just wait until you get those new big brakes!
I was battling a few things on Sunday - over-boosting, a car that went into "limp" mode 4 times on the track while at speed (you can't imagine how frustrating that was), a funky brake pedal (we bled the brakes like 5 times and I still had a soft pedal that I had to pump into every hard braking corner), and an exhaust leak. I bet I had another 2 seconds left in the car had I not had to deal with those problems. Just the brake issue alone cost me precious seconds pumping the middle pedal when I could have had my right foot on the gas. The brakes themselves stopped the car well - no issue on the Rotora pads or brake parts. Maybe a leak or something with the master cylinder?
That said, my aero parts worked great. I had the wing, my Kognition sponsored carbon fiber air dam and splitter, and my "secret weapon" rear diffuser. That really got a lot of attention. Too bad the picture above doesn't show that on the car (I didn't install it until later in the day on Saturday). The car was a rock through the fast sweeper and I was able to carry speed over Lost Hill and get on the gas immediately over the crest. It also helped the car in the last turn onto the front straight - otherwise, I think I would have slid off the track there more than once.
I will be taking the car back to VRT to build my motor so that I can run higher boost safely and have that big power that Mike and mraturbo have. Plus I'll have more CF light parts (hood and hatch as a minimum). So we'll be back, bigger and better than ever next time!
Last edited by knight_white99; 12-05-2006 at 06:29 PM.
12-05-2006, 06:45 PM
#74
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Great to see you again too, Ed! We'll definitely plan to do dinner next time. You ran some great laps yourself (you had better times than me! A 2:06, right?). Pretty amazing for a car as heavy as yours.
*** For those who don't know Ed, let me tell you, his track analysis skills, and his ability to communicate them, are superlative. Though I have a lot of track experience, I think I learn something from talking to him or reading his posts every time. ***
*** For those who don't know Ed, let me tell you, his track analysis skills, and his ability to communicate them, are superlative. Though I have a lot of track experience, I think I learn something from talking to him or reading his posts every time. ***
12-05-2006, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by daveh
Wish I was there. Sounds like a good time was had by all. Too bad they series doesn't come up north.
12-05-2006, 09:24 PM
#78
A few more shots I found from EvolutionM.net...
Steve being chased by the overall Street class winner and his blazing fast EVO...
Me making my move on pro drag racer Chris Rado and his factory sponsored Scion Time Attack car...
This is why you take it easy on the first session of the day...
Big Ed and his beautiful G35...
Steve being chased by the overall Street class winner and his blazing fast EVO...
Me making my move on pro drag racer Chris Rado and his factory sponsored Scion Time Attack car...
This is why you take it easy on the first session of the day...
Big Ed and his beautiful G35...
12-06-2006, 04:55 AM
#79
Originally Posted by knight_white99
Great to see you again too, Ed! We'll definitely plan to do dinner next time. You ran some great laps yourself (you had better times than me! A 2:06, right?). Pretty amazing for a car as heavy as yours.
*** For those who don't know Ed, let me tell you, his track analysis skills, and his ability to communicate them, are superlative. Though I have a lot of track experience, I think I learn something from talking to him or reading his posts every time. ***
*** For those who don't know Ed, let me tell you, his track analysis skills, and his ability to communicate them, are superlative. Though I have a lot of track experience, I think I learn something from talking to him or reading his posts every time. ***
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, teach gym. - Bill Cosby
Struggling in that gap between the study and the practice, trying to convert what I understand conceptually into what I can do physically and skillfully. And driving clearly is a combination of skill and athletics.
It probably is different for everyone to varying degrees, but for me, having thoughts that while my life is of absolutely no cosmic import to anyone other than as a secure source of pet food, and a comic relief to a small circle of friends, it still is the only life I have and I would like to enjoy it through freedom of movement without pain. Thus, a crystal clear, prismatic focus upon my limitations, what they are, how much they are and why they are, is a very important key to going faster. They help to understand where to put your energies into improving. It is nice to recognize what you can do well, and to dissect even those parts clinically in an effort to do them better still. But real gains, and safety, are found in what you can objectively recognize as the areas in which you "suck". Candidly, if we cannot take out a sheet of paper and make a fairly definitive list that easily spills onto a second sheet of elements that really need work...we are not being very honest with ourselves and our driving.
These elements of course can apply to many areas of endeavor. Even something like golf, which is a skill with athletic undertones. The one defining difference being that in golf you clear your mind and then strike the ball, whereas in driving you are the ball. The exclamation is found when you go out of bounds and the consequences are to be reckoned.
There are probably folks with great "feel" for the road, the car, the ethereal plane of existence who float like a valkyrie through the turns.........in their dreams. Most of the really fast drivers seem to be pretty realistic and hard in their preparation. They have to have some confidence and arrogance, and the farther out the limb of excellence and danger they climb the more they probably need (not being one of them this is speculation on my part) but they do not have to let it out. I saw that in my dad, who was a fighter pilot, and a test pilot. IF we think driving a race car is on the wild side......zowie! Yet he was one of them most unassuming and quiet men I ever knew. But he knew a lot about his equipment, and about flying, and every time he got in a plane he was prepared and took nothing for granted. He lived to be a couple of months short of his 80th birthday, and was cycling through Norway for several weeks just three months before he passed away. I would sign up for that scenario.
So I am going to take note of the old boy's approach and know very darn well what some piece of machinery does and how it works before I strap my butt into it and go like gangbusters. For me it helps to know what pieces are doing what, so I do not ask them to do something patently impossible. And so that when the car "talks" to me, I am in a position to understand what it is saying. And work slowly up to the edges rather than blindly take big jumps and hope I land on a safe spot.
There is no future in racing for me. I don't want one. But I do enjoy the learning, the adventure, and the comraderie of motorsport at this level. Writing in some respects is a way to share some things learned, elicit observations and perspectives from others that further enhance what I learn, and bring some quality to the little grain of the cosmos that I live and move through. Like a dung beetle rolling his ball of elephant turd across the savannah with almost feverish excitement. It may not be much, but baby it is all mine! (Now, how do I get more downforce on this ball?)
"Be the Ball"
12-06-2006, 07:47 AM
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Like a dung beetle rolling his ball of elephant turd across the savannah with almost feverish excitement. It may not be much, but baby it is all mine!
Entry fee to the Redline Time Attack - $325
Being able to read Ed's writings and talk to him - priceless.