Redline Time Attack! @ Buttonwillow Dec 2 & 3
12-22-2006, 11:42 AM
#141
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I know it varies but all being equal a T2 car will be several seconds a lap faster than an ITS car. Show me an ITS car faster than Schotz or any of the other fast CAli T2 cars and I will show you an illegal ITS car.
12-22-2006, 12:05 PM
#142
As the T2 cars are being developed they are getting faster and I agree that, on paper, the T2 cars should beat the ITS cars. A good example is the lap records at Road Atlanta where the "Runoffs" for IT (the ARRC) are run. In March 2006 Will Turner in a T2 M3 beat Chet Whittle's ITS lap record from the SARRC in 2004 by .80 seconds.
12-22-2006, 12:21 PM
#143
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Originally Posted by SuperKool
Hey all,
With all the discussion about tires and how they apply to the rules, I'd like to clarify a little about the rules and why they are written the way they are for the Street Class.
For each class we run in the Time Attack, we needed to have a general rule that separated each class. In Time Attack racing, the build of the car is fairly open. You do can do just about anything to your car to make it go fast. There are no sanctioned rules that limit your ability to go fast. This isn't wheel to wheel racing and the idea is to get the fastest lap you and your car are capable of. With that being the spirit of Time Attack racing, we still needed a class divider. With the build up of your car being wide open, your tire choose is the only real handicap that can be applied to lap time. Therefor, the tires that you can use in any given class is what defines the class. We all know that tread wear ratings are not all equal, however we can determine that all tires with a tread were rating of 140 or higher are defiantly street tires and not of the R-Comp category. The Street Class can use tires with a tread were rating of 140 or higher, and therefor you won't find any racing tires in that class. The sprit of the street car class is just that.... A street driven car that can compete in a TIME ATTACK race without having to be a full blown race car. This has worked out very well through out this last year of Time Attack events. What has been happening is that people who build up their car to run in the Time Attack Street Class are limited by the tire choose and although some drivers have incorporated huge amounts of power, they have not been able to utilized the power due to the restriction of tires in the street class. This of course prompts people to use a R-Comp tire and thus moves them into the Modified class were a Time Attack built car belongs. This last year of hosting the Redline: Time Attack has proven the rules to work well. As it shows that the street class has been dominated by cars with less power, or less built cars that compete well with better chassis and suspension tuning over raw power.
Now the Modified and Unlimited Class is another story altogether, but I hope you get more of a feeling for the street class and why the rules were written the way they are.
With all the discussion about tires and how they apply to the rules, I'd like to clarify a little about the rules and why they are written the way they are for the Street Class.
For each class we run in the Time Attack, we needed to have a general rule that separated each class. In Time Attack racing, the build of the car is fairly open. You do can do just about anything to your car to make it go fast. There are no sanctioned rules that limit your ability to go fast. This isn't wheel to wheel racing and the idea is to get the fastest lap you and your car are capable of. With that being the spirit of Time Attack racing, we still needed a class divider. With the build up of your car being wide open, your tire choose is the only real handicap that can be applied to lap time. Therefor, the tires that you can use in any given class is what defines the class. We all know that tread wear ratings are not all equal, however we can determine that all tires with a tread were rating of 140 or higher are defiantly street tires and not of the R-Comp category. The Street Class can use tires with a tread were rating of 140 or higher, and therefor you won't find any racing tires in that class. The sprit of the street car class is just that.... A street driven car that can compete in a TIME ATTACK race without having to be a full blown race car. This has worked out very well through out this last year of Time Attack events. What has been happening is that people who build up their car to run in the Time Attack Street Class are limited by the tire choose and although some drivers have incorporated huge amounts of power, they have not been able to utilized the power due to the restriction of tires in the street class. This of course prompts people to use a R-Comp tire and thus moves them into the Modified class were a Time Attack built car belongs. This last year of hosting the Redline: Time Attack has proven the rules to work well. As it shows that the street class has been dominated by cars with less power, or less built cars that compete well with better chassis and suspension tuning over raw power.
Now the Modified and Unlimited Class is another story altogether, but I hope you get more of a feeling for the street class and why the rules were written the way they are.
One thing I have learned from Racing is that nothing beats HP, thats how cars that are pigs in corners but rockets on straights can product suprisingly fast lap times.
Your philosophy for the Street Class should be cars close to stock. Who cares what tires they run on, let them run Hoosier but write some rules that make sense. This is what I would recommend for Street Class:
Require all engines to run standard OE induction method, ie: N/A must remain N/A, Turbo must remain Turbo. Allow intake and exhaust to be free. Allow engine management to be free. Require all engine internals to remain stock OE. Allow springs, shocks and swaybars to be free. Require fenders, doors and trunk to be stock (ie: no wide bodies) allow aftermarket Hoods and Front/Rear spoilers and side skirts.
12-22-2006, 04:07 PM
#145
Originally Posted by betamotorsports
Except ground effects, light weight, and wings.
I'd have to agree with that...not many street machines with 300-500 HP can beat the Radicals, Stohls, and F2000 machines out there.
12-22-2006, 04:16 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by betamotorsports
As the T2 cars are being developed they are getting faster and I agree that, on paper, the T2 cars should beat the ITS cars. A good example is the lap records at Road Atlanta where the "Runoffs" for IT (the ARRC) are run. In March 2006 Will Turner in a T2 M3 beat Chet Whittle's ITS lap record from the SARRC in 2004 by .80 seconds.
12-22-2006, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by betamotorsports
Except ground effects, light weight, and wings.
12-23-2006, 04:32 AM
#148
The cars like the Chiron, Ariel Atom and Radical that I have come across on the track days are insanely faster than 500rwhp street cars. There is just no way that a track only sled will fail to wipe the floor with street cars, assuming equal driver skill. The power to weight ratio of the Atom is 600bhp per ton........(the supercharged version that puts out more than 300bhp on a 1,000lb body). that is almost double what the TT Z and G cars put out for track and street. Then put on some aero and yikes. The only place on the tracks that I have run with them where I could beat them resoundingly was on the front straight at Cal Speedway where the high hp could just out grunt them above 120mph, their aero was creating drag, and with my high speed torque it was possible to keep pulling on them. But any ape can just hold the wheel still and keep the right foot down....no joy there. And lap times? No contest. We could do low 1:50's on the road course in Z and G cars with the Roval (high banked turns 1 and 2 they use from the NASCAR track). The little rockets were doing high 1:30's to low 1:40's.
But they don't have stereo, air conditioning, etc. either. Totally fun toys.
But they don't have stereo, air conditioning, etc. either. Totally fun toys.
Last edited by Eagle1; 12-23-2006 at 05:09 AM.
12-23-2006, 05:48 AM
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There is always going to be one or two exceptions to a rule, it would be easy for the organizers to put these cars automatically into the modified or unlimited classes (like they do with the Ferrari's and Porsche's). My point is this supposedly "street stock" class leaves a lot of us with midly modded Z's etc totally outclassed when someone shows up with a twin-turbo charged Z. A turbo charged Z would not be considered "street stock" by any other organization, and to say that requiring everyone to run street tires will somehow equalize a car with 500hp to a car with 300hp is unrealistic.
12-23-2006, 05:49 AM
#150
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Originally Posted by betamotorsports
As the T2 cars are being developed they are getting faster and I agree that, on paper, the T2 cars should beat the ITS cars. A good example is the lap records at Road Atlanta where the "Runoffs" for IT (the ARRC) are run. In March 2006 Will Turner in a T2 M3 beat Chet Whittle's ITS lap record from the SARRC in 2004 by .80 seconds.
12-23-2006, 10:50 AM
#152
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Yeah, he was sponsored by Toyo, dont know if they caught wind of this but everyone in the padock knew what he did. Turner knew he didnt have a chance at all running the Toyo's.
Why are the IRL guys running Hypercoils instead of Eibach, are they really that much better?
Why are the IRL guys running Hypercoils instead of Eibach, are they really that much better?
12-24-2006, 09:05 AM
#153
Why are the IRL guys running Hypercoils instead of Eibach, are they really that much better?
12-27-2006, 04:11 PM
#154
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My company will be going thru the Radical sometime this spring for Radical West
to shave at least another 75lb's off of this car with new production parts. Then there is truly going to be no hope.
to shave at least another 75lb's off of this car with new production parts. Then there is truly going to be no hope.
Originally Posted by mhoward1
I'd have to agree with that...not many street machines with 300-500 HP can beat the Radicals, Stohls, and F2000 machines out there.
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