DZeckhausen

I'm as unhappy with the state of today's legal system as you are. For years, I've done free brake clinics all over the country and never had a problem, so I looked at my lawyer like he had two heads when he insisted on disclaimers on my web site and my invoices. My attitude was that by providing excellent customer service and trying real hard to make everyone happy, nobody would ever sue me. It would be like suing a friend. Then he told me some horror stories and I began to hear similar ones from other friends who had been in the automotive business longer than I. Still have a perfect record so far (knock on wood!) but I also have a disclaimer on my bedding tutorial and all my DIY pages. At least I tried to make them not seem too legalistic and I tried to throw in some useful information too.

From the bedding tutorial:

"Caution: When you've just installed new pads/rotors or a big brake kit, the first few applications of the brake pedal will result in almost no braking power. Gently apply the brakes a few times at low speed in order to build up some grip before blasting down the road at high speed. Otherwise, you may be in for a nasty surprise the first time you hit the brakes at 60 mph.

When following these instructions, please avoid doing it in the presence of other vehicles. Breaking in your new pads and rotors is often best done very early in the morning, since other drivers will have no idea what you are up to and will respond in a variety of ways ranging from fear to curiosity to aggression. And an officer of the law will probably not understand when you try to explain why you were driving erratically! Zeckhausen Racing does not endorse speeding on public roads and takes no responsibility for any injuries or tickets you may receive while following these instructions."

DZeckhausen

Unless you are Bill Gates and have your own private test track, you have no control over the actions of others on the road.

Back in 1996, I was test driving the new Impala SS. (The good one with the Corvette LT1 motor - not today's front wheel drive, stretched Lumina!) You're never quite as careful as when you are in someone else's brand new car with 10 miles on the odometer. Some idiot in a BMW 740iL made a right turn from the left lane into a side street and totally cut me off. We were both going about 50 mph and he was only slightly in front of me. I have no idea what he was thinking. You should have seen the eyes of all his passengers when they realized a huge 4,000 pound Impala SS was bearing down on them with all four tires squealing. A photo taken of them at that moment would have resembled a Far Side cartoon. I barely managed not to hit that BMW. (I did end up buying the Impala SS by the way. See: http://www.zeckhausen.com/ebay/Impala/Side.jpg Just replaced it with a new 2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8.)

The school bus example comes from the Bob Bondurant School of High Speed Driving, by the way. They set up a high speed lane change exercise where the ONLY way you could react to the sudden appearance of a "barrier" without losing control was to hit the gas while making the lane change in order to get a rearward weight transfer. They told us to imagine the barrier was a "bus full of lawyer's kids" to motivate us.

I'm through with this particular topic. No more advice from "dad" on liability. You either get it by now or you don't. At least kbiz understands.

KNS Brakes

iTrader: (2)

I don't think I can even search to see what the heck that is

DZeckhausen

Here you go: http://www.trinetmotorsports.com/

Click on PRODUCTS, then select BRAKE ROTORS from the pulldown menu. You can click on each of the various rotor styles to see a photo. This one was called "Iron Cross." For even more entertainment, take a look around their site to read various technical "facts." It's clear they have no idea what they are doing.

buzzardmountain

iTrader: (17)

Can we keep some of the comments more specific to this thread: "DIY Assemble your own Big Brake Kits: Caliper Brackets (Custom)"

Whether it be pics and info about trinetmotorsports.com, impalas, or the state of our legal system, it's cluttering up one of the best threads I've seen here/my350z in a long time.

I applaud the efforts of kbiz, zillinois, and others for researching alternatives whether this is successful or not.

Myself, I have absolutely nothing to contribute tech wise. But, needless to say I'm interested.

kbiz

I agree... we can revisit some of these issues later on if need be. I'm not referring to the cross rotors, of course. We're actually working on pricing potentially bellow retail as we speak so there is still some action that's on topic going on... nothing to report just yet. I'm still in the final selection phase of the 4 pot calipers... I'll report back with the scoop.

kbiz

Hey whenever you can is when it will have to be... but you can still give a review on fitment and performance vs. your current set-up. What is your current set-up, btw?

gringott

iTrader: (17)

I personally have about 52,000 miles on my OEM stock pads and rotors (2003). They are not yet in need of replacement. So as far as testing goes, I am prob. not the one, as I am very light on the brakes. But if any drudge work is needed, please feel free to call on me.

kbiz

I'm impressed for sure with your braking!! But I know I'm to blame for my brake wear... So would it be fair to say that you'd be interested in upgrading brakes for looks over performance? Or maybe just interested in the project because of the basic DIY nature? 52k on stock pads... wow... very cool.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

It for sure is a looks thing. My friend is a Infinity mech and when the customers complain about the pad wear, he tells them about me. I am interested for three reasons in this order:

DIY
Performance (not fading)
Rather upgrade than replace.

Keep up the good work Kbiz

kbiz

no doubt... even if you buy decent aftermarket alternatives to the nissan stock parts... you're out a chunk just for rotors and pads on the front. Don't even talk to me about how much the dealer charges to do the complete brake job... not that they're scamming or anything, but uuhhhggg!!

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

+10

DZeckhausen, please read the thread. Especially the part where I mention that I will be testing these on a closed track. And I get it. Its just that you are condesending to people here. What I don't "get" is what you are doing still posting here. IMO, it could be construed as condoning this process. If I were a brake manufacturer I would stay as far away from this thread as possible. I really liked my Stoptechs, but it is doubtful I will ever buy another set after this interaction.

KBiz, I had the 14" Stoptech front kit for the last season of tracking approximately 20 days. I have now gone back to the stock non-Brembo brakes. I sold all of my mods and purchased a race car. And yes, I will certainly give a review of the setup once installed.

kbiz

Something to be said for the cost of mods... sold em and bought a racecar!

DZeckhausen

This is a very long thread and I didn't catch the post where you mentioned testing will take place on a closed track. That being the case, much of the liability concern for you has been addressed. That's a good thing. I'm not a mind reader and from the responses I did see, it appeared (to me) that the liability issue was simply being dismissed as unimportant or not real. My mistake. Looks like you've got it covered.

I'm not a brake manufacturer, I'm an independent retailer who deals in other products besides StopTech (e.g., Brembo). The purpose of my posts was not to be judgmental or condescending, nor to scare you away from the project. It was to provide input I thought would be useful, based on extensive experience in the brake business. The beauty of these boards is that they allow one to tap into the collective wisdom of all the members, each of whom possess different experiences and skills. If my input bothers you, then I'll leave you to your experiment and not invest any more time here.

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

Well, I had to chip in a little cash too. I had about 12k in mods and got about 6k out of them. Not too bad though. You can check the new ride out here if you like. Got some tear down pics at the end too. BTW, it has Wilwoods. Thought that was a little ironic.

https://my350z.com/forum/autocross-road/145091-giving-up-tracking-the-z-and-going-back-to-stock.html

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

Input directed at the brake system is more than welcome.

kbiz

Hey, and it might actually be less of a money pit than a boat!! Actually I'll bet you're gonna save a bunch in the wear items dept... Will you actually race it or just for trackin'?? Sorry, more off topic stuff...

But on topic, hopefully later this week or most likely next week I'll here back on some pricing for calipers. We'll see how much trouble we can get into with our beer money!!

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

I'm going to be racing in SCCA DSR next year. I'll be doing a bunch of HPDE's in the early part of the year to get the hang of the car, but then I'll run enough races to get my National license so I can attend the June Sprints at Road America. Cost containment is one of the benefits of running a DSR. Although, you theoretically could spend as much money on it as any other car. The idea here is that you don't have to if you don't want to.


Good to hear your making progress on the brakes.

Havok_RLS2

iTrader: (9)

Anything new? Update in status? Anything at all?

kbiz

Still getting pricing... no one worry. There's just nothing all that interesting to update... I'll come up with something entertaining for you... Off topic, I'm machining a shifter surround and ball shifter to eliminate the ******* shifter boot... I hate that thing!

zillinois is definitely down to test these out and I know he'll be the perfect candidate to give real feedback on how they perform. He's got plenty of track time... he ran with Stoptechs on the track for quite a while and now has the stockers back on his Z. It'll be a great comparison between the three brake set-ups.

How about this... how many people are definitely interested in installing this brake system if they end up testing out very well and the price point is around $700??? We're looking at 13" two piece Wilwood rotors and hats, Wilwood 4 piston Calipers, and SS brake lines for the first front kit. Keep in mind, that the bracket design will allow 6 piston Wilwood calipers as well being that they have the same mounting dimensions. Everyone who's interested post a comment... that'll give me an idea what kind of buying power we might have should it come down to a group buy or something.