Finally got Brembo Brakes... Off an R35...
are the 07 Brembo? or did they upgrade the 07 Standard Brakes from the 03? if its a nice cost effective upgrade i would definately consider it
[quote=Kwame@z1Auto;7837919]
+1. a good kits' rotors will save massive amounts of weight, and that savings becomes more impressive when you consider the size upgrade. forged aluminum ftw!
... These ridiculously over sized brake kits also add a TON of un-sprung weight to your car....QUOTE]
Tom, this isn't always the case as the well engineered kits use aluminum rotor hats and calipers which in turn allow them to be lighter than their stock counterparts.
Tom, this isn't always the case as the well engineered kits use aluminum rotor hats and calipers which in turn allow them to be lighter than their stock counterparts.
someone is actually selling them right now in the market place. this is a NON BREMBO upgrade and you should be able to pay from 150-300 depending on mileage and condition and get rotors, pads, lines and calipers. the only modification needed is to trim the dust shields where they curve over.
The caliper is far larger than the 03 brakes, as are the brake pads. The rotors are also much wider and larger diametrally. The rears are basically the same, just a pad size change IIRC.
I believe I have an old thread that had specifications for rotor diameter, thickness and pad sizes.
an upgrade to the brembo master cylinder is also a good idea if you find one cheap.
with the 03 brakes from high speed I started to get brake fade after repeated races and didn't like it. the increased rotor material also makes them developing heat/deposit spots less likely.
The caliper is far larger than the 03 brakes, as are the brake pads. The rotors are also much wider and larger diametrally. The rears are basically the same, just a pad size change IIRC.
I believe I have an old thread that had specifications for rotor diameter, thickness and pad sizes.
an upgrade to the brembo master cylinder is also a good idea if you find one cheap.
with the 03 brakes from high speed I started to get brake fade after repeated races and didn't like it. the increased rotor material also makes them developing heat/deposit spots less likely.
I didn't mean to discount that fact, which I agree with. But still, increasing to a 6, 8 piston caliper + massively larger diameter and thickness rotors will add weight over stock no matter what from what I remember. but when you get a quality kit that uses forged aluminum calipers and hats you minimize the weight increase while increasing the performance. The minimal trade off in weight in these cases is worth it for the increase in performance, and let's admit it: aesthetics
but yeah, it is a good distinction to make and highlight. sorry for being so 'broad brush'.
Last edited by Motormouth; Oct 14, 2009 at 01:54 PM.
Depending on the rotor, an aftermarket 2 pc can be lighter than the smaller dia oem 1pc it replaced. When the diameters of the 2pc get to 14"+, that's when the weights start to = or exceed the oem 1 pc rotor weight. But that's still very impressive considering a 14" Akebono 1 pc is 26 lbs and the typical 2pc 14" rotor is more like 15-17lbs.
Most of the important weight consideration is in the rotating mass (ie.. the rotor).
With that said, I still don't know why the OP is insisting on ice skating uphill on this one.
Most of the important weight consideration is in the rotating mass (ie.. the rotor).
With that said, I still don't know why the OP is insisting on ice skating uphill on this one.
A G37's stock front rotors are 28lbs, whereas the Alliance 15" rotor is 21 pounds. That's a sprung weight reduction of 25%, which is monumental. Alliance 8 piston caliper is 6.50 pounds, and while I don't know the weight of a G37 caliper, I can assure you its heavier.
I'm sure the Alliance kits aren't the only ones weighing less. A lot of Brembos are pressure cast, so they're heavy, but I'm sure some of the big players weigh in at less too
An Alliance kit increases to 8 piston, 15" rotors and is lighter than stock.
A G37's stock front rotors are 28lbs, whereas the Alliance 15" rotor is 21 pounds. That's a sprung weight reduction of 25%, which is monumental. Alliance 8 piston caliper is 6.50 pounds, and while I don't know the weight of a G37 caliper, I can assure you its heavier.
I'm sure the Alliance kits aren't the only ones weighing less. A lot of Brembos are pressure cast, so they're heavy, but I'm sure some of the big players weigh in at less too
A G37's stock front rotors are 28lbs, whereas the Alliance 15" rotor is 21 pounds. That's a sprung weight reduction of 25%, which is monumental. Alliance 8 piston caliper is 6.50 pounds, and while I don't know the weight of a G37 caliper, I can assure you its heavier.
I'm sure the Alliance kits aren't the only ones weighing less. A lot of Brembos are pressure cast, so they're heavy, but I'm sure some of the big players weigh in at less too
regardless, I stand corrected then, I appreciate you providing actual figures (even if it means I am wrong... drat!).
---
And since you mentioned rotating mass, all the mass lost off of those rotors is at the inner most point (from the 2 pc hat section), while you pushed the mass further out from the center (and I am going to say that the rotor section, not the hat section, weighs more) by increasing the diameter of the rotor, so the performance can still be impacted because of the negative 'moment of inertia' impact.
does this thought make sense?
Last edited by Motormouth; Oct 14, 2009 at 02:24 PM.
I was talking about upgrading from the old Z's brakes which are about 13.5 rotors and 1 piston calipers, but I am still surprised you lost that much weight. Are you quoting the entire assembled blank (not drilled/slotted) rotor, or only the rotor part, and not the hat + mounting hardware?
regardless, I stand corrected then, I appreciate you providing actual figures (even if it means I am wrong... drat!).
---
And since you mentioned rotating mass, all the mass lost off of those rotors is at the inner most point (from the 2 pc hat section), while you pushed the mass further out from the center (and I am going to say that the rotor section, not the hat section, weighs more) by increasing the diameter of the rotor, so the performance can still be impacted because of the negative 'moment of inertia' impact.
does this thought make sense?
regardless, I stand corrected then, I appreciate you providing actual figures (even if it means I am wrong... drat!).
---
And since you mentioned rotating mass, all the mass lost off of those rotors is at the inner most point (from the 2 pc hat section), while you pushed the mass further out from the center (and I am going to say that the rotor section, not the hat section, weighs more) by increasing the diameter of the rotor, so the performance can still be impacted because of the negative 'moment of inertia' impact.
does this thought make sense?
Not trying to sell these just throwing my guesses on how all this weight makes a difference. I'm in sales, not physics
Monoblock setups like Project Mu should be lighter in the calipers significantly due to their construction and lack of hardware holding two sides together.
joe - drawings done... we're roughing up a bracket with waste
material shortly, once we have exact measurements of mounting
positions off of both front calipers we will move onto the finished
brackets. i will have to inquire the nature of the exact metal we
are using.
motor/doug - you guys bring up alot of valid points. i will track the
car in the future. we spent an excessive amount of time considering
the end result (i.e. future performance) and determined that i will
end up with a significantly improved brake system over stock. past
that i want/ed something that no one else could have within reason.
i like the cart/horse analogy, however in this case i believe i went with
the horse and no cart.
i also strongly believe that sharing the experience with everyone has
proven rewarding - arguably moreso than the end result. i really enjoy
a challenge, and frankly this is as difficult as anything i've ever tackled.
once i am done i will have reset my personal bar of angst.
material shortly, once we have exact measurements of mounting
positions off of both front calipers we will move onto the finished
brackets. i will have to inquire the nature of the exact metal we
are using.
motor/doug - you guys bring up alot of valid points. i will track the
car in the future. we spent an excessive amount of time considering
the end result (i.e. future performance) and determined that i will
end up with a significantly improved brake system over stock. past
that i want/ed something that no one else could have within reason.
i like the cart/horse analogy, however in this case i believe i went with
the horse and no cart.
i also strongly believe that sharing the experience with everyone has
proven rewarding - arguably moreso than the end result. i really enjoy
a challenge, and frankly this is as difficult as anything i've ever tackled.
once i am done i will have reset my personal bar of angst.
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I just read thru this whole thread, good luck. I assume most if of the members here have 350Z/G35 so parts and upgrades are easy and available. I have a 2002 F50 Q45 and parts for it are far and rare, other than using the occasional Z33/V35 parts that may fit. If you look at the factory F50 brakes, you will be shocked to see how puny they are. 11.4" fronts and 11.5" rears on a 4000+ lbs car, and are known to warp after short time. Some of these F50 going thru rotors faster than tires. When I did my SC, I went with the Brembo GT fronts 14" as that was the only thing available. I think there are other kits now out of Japan that cost considerably more. The rears were kept stock as there was nothing available. I considered Evo, G35, and a few others but didn't buy any due to either lack of info or too small parts making the upgrade cost/benefit not good worthwhile. I bought a used Z33 rear hub and knuckle, and noticed that the mounting points/rear links were different. More importantly was that the rear bearings were less than 2/3 the size of the F50. As I did more research into the GT kits, I noticed that a large number of cars used the same rear caliper/rotor combos. I looked up these cars to find the weight distribution and I also found a company who's owner used to be an engineer for Porsche Engineering Services in their California office. He had worked together with quite a few motorsport companies including Brembo and had made a software to calculate brake sizing and proportioning. And turns out that he was fairly local to me, I went to see him. After talking to him and asking on how to build a rear kit with using the disc and calipers from a Brembo GT kit, his calculations showed that it would be fairly close to the factory proportioning setup. I was going to build my own hats and brackets as my dad is a machinist, but decided to have a custom chassis and machine shop build and design them instead, as they have more experience to critical components. The shop owner used to be a welder for air canada, so the possibility of having a plane crash and killing 150+ because of a minor mistake is much more of an issue than being in a car crash due to brake failure, so his work is one of the best in western Canada.
This was the end result:
The rear knuckle had to be machined down as there was no room for a bracket. After it was machined, the bracket was made and bolted to the knuckle and studs inserted.
The rear rotor was originally going to be aluminum, but I decided to machine down the factory rotor so that the parking brakes would be retained. Due to this design, weight and gyroscopic effect went up but most importantly thermal mass is greatly improved. Center of rotor is very close to the factory location.
Company that I spoke with is Girodisc, owner is Martin
http://www.girodisc.com/
This was the end result:
The rear knuckle had to be machined down as there was no room for a bracket. After it was machined, the bracket was made and bolted to the knuckle and studs inserted.
The rear rotor was originally going to be aluminum, but I decided to machine down the factory rotor so that the parking brakes would be retained. Due to this design, weight and gyroscopic effect went up but most importantly thermal mass is greatly improved. Center of rotor is very close to the factory location.
Company that I spoke with is Girodisc, owner is Martin
http://www.girodisc.com/
Last edited by marksport; Nov 14, 2009 at 06:59 PM.
