Z32 (300ZX) Brakes on a 350Z?
04-29-2006, 03:18 PM
#81
Originally Posted by BlackSpec02
so it seems like you guys are more worried about clamping force than brake fade... I would rather have larger rotors than better calipers if i had to chose one... this would fight heat, brake fade, and possible warping... larger calipers just give you more clamping force.... looks could go either way... better calipers look nice... but might look funny on small rotors.... larger rotors always look nice, but not GREAT without better calipers.
04-29-2006, 03:55 PM
#82
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well im not sure how big the 06 or the brembo rotors are... but for people who dont track their car much or at all and just want the look, i think there are a few companies who make larger rotor kits with caliper relocation brackets... this would fight heat and fade (not as good as a nice bbk, but more than stock) and if you really wanted a different look you could paint your calipers.
Many 13" rotor kits, however should fit under 17's BBK or not.
If the 06 rotors are larger, the calipers are probably different too, unless they utilize a bracket. im sure they are still single piston but they must attach differently to accomodate larger rotors... i actually didnt know 06 had bigger rotors until i read it here.
Many 13" rotor kits, however should fit under 17's BBK or not.
If the 06 rotors are larger, the calipers are probably different too, unless they utilize a bracket. im sure they are still single piston but they must attach differently to accomodate larger rotors... i actually didnt know 06 had bigger rotors until i read it here.
04-30-2006, 01:27 AM
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really? non-brembo stock 06 is larger with 2 piston calipers.... sweet, maybe we should just upgrade to 06 brakes with pads, lines and fluid. I would love to see a stock 03 vs. stock 06 non brembo brake shoot out... see what the stopping distance difference is.
04-30-2006, 01:37 AM
#87
Originally Posted by BlackSpec02
really? non-brembo stock 06 is larger with 2 piston calipers.... sweet, maybe we should just upgrade to 06 brakes with pads, lines and fluid. I would love to see a stock 03 vs. stock 06 non brembo brake shoot out... see what the stopping distance difference is.
I will add this little tid-bit of information.
You can purchase 1990-1996 remanufacture (with lifetime warranty) calipers from Advanced Auto for at little as $90.00 each! And these are at least 4 piston solid units.
Last edited by Havok_RLS2; 04-30-2006 at 01:42 AM.
04-30-2006, 10:07 AM
#88
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fade is a function of many things....rotor diameter is only one of them.
This kit is being engineered through a very knowledgeable group who only does brakes....so it will be correct and proper out of the box.
As details are available, we'll share them
Stopping distance has little to with your rotor diameter or your caliper pistons. It has to do primarily with the cars tires and weight.
This kit is being engineered through a very knowledgeable group who only does brakes....so it will be correct and proper out of the box.
As details are available, we'll share them
Stopping distance has little to with your rotor diameter or your caliper pistons. It has to do primarily with the cars tires and weight.
04-30-2006, 10:30 AM
#89
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The '06 non brembos do indeed have larger rotors and 2 piston calipers. The calipers are still the same sliding type as the '03-'05 non brembos just with 2 pistons. The '06 nonbrembos received the calipers and rotors used on the Titan and Armada.
04-30-2006, 02:41 PM
#90
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
fade is a function of many things....rotor diameter is only one of them.
This kit is being engineered through a very knowledgeable group who only does brakes....so it will be correct and proper out of the box.
As details are available, we'll share them
Stopping distance has little to with your rotor diameter or your caliper pistons. It has to do primarily with the cars tires and weight.
This kit is being engineered through a very knowledgeable group who only does brakes....so it will be correct and proper out of the box.
As details are available, we'll share them
Stopping distance has little to with your rotor diameter or your caliper pistons. It has to do primarily with the cars tires and weight.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
It's good that you guys are working on your own kit. My only concern is will it be "Cost Effective"? There is no point at all in creating this Big Brake upgrade if at the end of the day it'll cost only a few hundred less than any other BBK currently on the market. All we need for this kit should be the conversion brakets and maybe larger rotors. I've already found out that the stock 350z brakelines can be re-used on the Z32 calipers. The stock 350z rotors are already much larger than the 280mm Z32 rotors. So what else is there? Maybe two kits can be created? Stage 1 = Just the conversion brakets and maybe steal braided lines. Stage 2 = Everything in stage 1 + Larger rotors.
At least thats the direction I'm going.
04-30-2006, 03:54 PM
#92
Just make too much sense IMHO. That's the direction I'm trying to go at least. Z1 might have better connections as far as getting all the R and D done faster but I have my own machine and fab shop willing to make my parts real cheap if not free.
But this is not a competition. I really hope Adam and the guys at Z1 can do some magic on this project. I just hope they share some information along the way. Z1 has the exposure to a knowledge base that I just don't have. They also have the personell and the time to spend on this little DYI, I can only work on it when I'm not at work. Believe me... If any shop can do it... Z1 can do it.
But this is not a competition. I really hope Adam and the guys at Z1 can do some magic on this project. I just hope they share some information along the way.
Z1 has the exposure to a knowledge base that I just don't have. They also have the personell and the time to spend on this little DYI, I can only work on it when I'm not at work. Believe me... If any shop can do it... Z1 can do it.
05-01-2006, 07:59 PM
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jeeeeez
Havok,
Holy sh*t. I go away for a few days, and there are 4 pages of info here. haha. I was talking to a guy who makes relocation brakets for the 300zx to use z33 brembo rotors. I'm not sure the dimensions...I have to look at my old emails. Thing was, he mentioned that the bolt holes line up but that the bolts are of different size. I'm not sure if he was talking about just the rears...since Z1 says a bracket is needed to put the fronts on properly.
anyway, one of my good friends has the 30mm calipers on his 240. I talked him into taking them off this week, so I can see what the deal is. I will take measurements and see what the rotor size is confirmed to be, and see how much *** pain I have to endure to get the proper fitment. I know some of this might be posted here already, but damn....4 pages of posts, and I'm in a hurry
As to the ppl commenting on stopping distance. For me at least, that isnt the reason for this:
I dont have a problem per se with brake fade with standard brakes. I'm only on the track for 20 minutes at a time. I use hawk blues, and I dont ride the brakes going into a turn (compress the braking zone folks). I boiled my stock fluid years ago..haha. So super blue keeps me good to go. Thats not to say the brakes dont fade.....but its managable. Rotors are a dime a dozen, and I toss them if their scored. The blues pretty much wear away several mm's just in normal usage. So the notion of warping the rotors is amusing to me.
Stopping distances between standard and brembo, with stock pads, from 100 to 0, and 60 to 0....is in matters of feet....as in....only a few feet. I think someone on 350zmotoring posted a link to a shop that did a good side by side test of this. With an upgraded master cylinder, the hydralic force applied to the pads should be greater yes? Would that not also produce better breaking?
Which reminds me, does anyone know the stock piston size in the master cylinder for the z33 with standard brakes?
However, one of my problems is the im-balance of pad wear. I know....big money to save on the cost of pads, but its annoying that the inside pad where the piston is, wears differently. So I like the notion of smoothly and evenly pressing against the rotor on each side. I have the allusion that the braking will be smoother this way.
I also want larger rotors for the head radiance. I know.....I should get brake ducting. But the rear calipers get up to 700 degrees. 700! Adn the fronts get up to 500 something. The rear calipers are half the size, and I wear them out much much faster because of a combination of this heat, and the retarded rear-bias with the Z. I have the equally potential illusion that the 300zx brakes push the bias more to the front.
The bias is supposed to be greatly enhanced when traction control engages (which is turned off at the track, but not while getting there and driving to the local 7-11). I also think that ABS, if engaged, also effects this bias. It seemed that when I had sessions where abs was engaging, that the rears heated up more. Maybe it was my imagination.
Anyway, thats a lot for all of info everyone has posted. I'm with you on the notion that if the fitment is more expensive then the bbk, that I should eat my words.
But, re-man'd brakes should cost less than 500. Lines...about 150. The cost of the rotors and pads dont count, since they're wear parts, and are replaced on a bbk too.
Ok, let the flaming commence, and while these are just my opinions, they're a result of my track experience.
Holy sh*t. I go away for a few days, and there are 4 pages of info here. haha. I was talking to a guy who makes relocation brakets for the 300zx to use z33 brembo rotors. I'm not sure the dimensions...I have to look at my old emails. Thing was, he mentioned that the bolt holes line up but that the bolts are of different size. I'm not sure if he was talking about just the rears...since Z1 says a bracket is needed to put the fronts on properly.
anyway, one of my good friends has the 30mm calipers on his 240. I talked him into taking them off this week, so I can see what the deal is. I will take measurements and see what the rotor size is confirmed to be, and see how much *** pain I have to endure to get the proper fitment. I know some of this might be posted here already, but damn....4 pages of posts, and I'm in a hurry
As to the ppl commenting on stopping distance. For me at least, that isnt the reason for this:
I dont have a problem per se with brake fade with standard brakes. I'm only on the track for 20 minutes at a time. I use hawk blues, and I dont ride the brakes going into a turn (compress the braking zone folks). I boiled my stock fluid years ago..haha. So super blue keeps me good to go. Thats not to say the brakes dont fade.....but its managable. Rotors are a dime a dozen, and I toss them if their scored. The blues pretty much wear away several mm's just in normal usage. So the notion of warping the rotors is amusing to me.
Stopping distances between standard and brembo, with stock pads, from 100 to 0, and 60 to 0....is in matters of feet....as in....only a few feet. I think someone on 350zmotoring posted a link to a shop that did a good side by side test of this. With an upgraded master cylinder, the hydralic force applied to the pads should be greater yes? Would that not also produce better breaking?
Which reminds me, does anyone know the stock piston size in the master cylinder for the z33 with standard brakes?
However, one of my problems is the im-balance of pad wear. I know....big money to save on the cost of pads, but its annoying that the inside pad where the piston is, wears differently. So I like the notion of smoothly and evenly pressing against the rotor on each side. I have the allusion that the braking will be smoother this way.
I also want larger rotors for the head radiance. I know.....I should get brake ducting. But the rear calipers get up to 700 degrees. 700! Adn the fronts get up to 500 something. The rear calipers are half the size, and I wear them out much much faster because of a combination of this heat, and the retarded rear-bias with the Z. I have the equally potential illusion that the 300zx brakes push the bias more to the front.
The bias is supposed to be greatly enhanced when traction control engages (which is turned off at the track, but not while getting there and driving to the local 7-11). I also think that ABS, if engaged, also effects this bias. It seemed that when I had sessions where abs was engaging, that the rears heated up more. Maybe it was my imagination.
Anyway, thats a lot for all of info everyone has posted. I'm with you on the notion that if the fitment is more expensive then the bbk, that I should eat my words.
But, re-man'd brakes should cost less than 500. Lines...about 150. The cost of the rotors and pads dont count, since they're wear parts, and are replaced on a bbk too.
Ok, let the flaming commence, and while these are just my opinions, they're a result of my track experience.
05-03-2006, 05:56 AM
#96
The 03-05 Z uses the same front caliper/rotor/and pads as the 01-02 Maxima. Single piston - about 300 x 24 mm rotor. The Z rotor is designed slightly differently but the basic dimensions are identical - I'd bet you could save $$ buying Maxima replacement rotors.
The rear also shares the pad w/ Maxima's but uses a vented rotor and thus wider version of the caliper.
OP mentioned 06 Z brakes - I haven't been able to confirm but I did hear it mentioned that it was using M45 brakes - 2potslider/1 pot slider as mentioned.
Remember that sliding calipers use a bracket that has the slider pins and pad guides - i.e. floating type. Fixed calipers of tab mount design such as the TT caliper bolt directly to the knuckle - and what we are looking at here is using a bracket to adapt the tabs on the TT caliper to the z33 knuckle - but it isn't that easy as the bolts are a pia.
The TT caliper can handle a rotor up to 300 x 30mm - this would be a pretty good upgrade to standard z non-Brembo brakes. The improvement in pedal response would be pretty dramatic - and the additional 6 mm of rotor thickeness adds both heat mass and a larger air gap between the friction plates and should thus be able to absorb/reject a good bit more heat - the primary goal. (I assume you are considering this for performance reasons right...? - otherwise get some red paint and fake drilled rotors 
)
The TT calipers have 40mm pistons....the stock Z are 57mm - so piston area is nearly identical (2512 mm^2 vs 2550 mm^2) - so using a rotor of similar diameter to the stock rotor will maintain factory bias and not pose any MC problems. If you could use a larger rotor you would be front biasing the vehicle - not a deal killer but going in the wrong direction regardless of electronics.
Finally you would most likely lose a few pounds of unsprung weight. The TT caliper is maybe 5 lbs without pads - add a pound for an adaptor bracket adn hardware. The stock caliper and hangar bracket has to be around 15 lbs so you would shed about 7-9 pounds but give some back as the rotor is heavier - not sure exactly by how much.
While the calipers are available - they are getting hard to find fast. Of course everyone lists them but try to get 10 sets and see. They have been getting sucked up by the 240 crowd at a quick rate. They also can be in marginal condition - reman or not. They are 10-15 years old and are aluminum.
Is this a good bang for the buck upgrade?? No doubt there - you got ripped by Nissan when they decided to go cheap on the non-Brembo brakes for the hairdresser crowd. Does it have bling factor?? A little - especially if you paint/powdercost the calipers. Maybe not if you run 20's but .......
The rear also shares the pad w/ Maxima's but uses a vented rotor and thus wider version of the caliper.
OP mentioned 06 Z brakes - I haven't been able to confirm but I did hear it mentioned that it was using M45 brakes - 2potslider/1 pot slider as mentioned.
Remember that sliding calipers use a bracket that has the slider pins and pad guides - i.e. floating type. Fixed calipers of tab mount design such as the TT caliper bolt directly to the knuckle - and what we are looking at here is using a bracket to adapt the tabs on the TT caliper to the z33 knuckle - but it isn't that easy as the bolts are a pia.
The TT caliper can handle a rotor up to 300 x 30mm - this would be a pretty good upgrade to standard z non-Brembo brakes. The improvement in pedal response would be pretty dramatic - and the additional 6 mm of rotor thickeness adds both heat mass and a larger air gap between the friction plates and should thus be able to absorb/reject a good bit more heat - the primary goal. (I assume you are considering this for performance reasons right...?
- otherwise get some red paint and fake drilled rotors )The TT calipers have 40mm pistons....the stock Z are 57mm - so piston area is nearly identical (2512 mm^2 vs 2550 mm^2) - so using a rotor of similar diameter to the stock rotor will maintain factory bias and not pose any MC problems. If you could use a larger rotor you would be front biasing the vehicle - not a deal killer but going in the wrong direction regardless of electronics.
Finally you would most likely lose a few pounds of unsprung weight. The TT caliper is maybe 5 lbs without pads - add a pound for an adaptor bracket adn hardware. The stock caliper and hangar bracket has to be around 15 lbs so you would shed about 7-9 pounds but give some back as the rotor is heavier - not sure exactly by how much.
While the calipers are available - they are getting hard to find fast. Of course everyone lists them but try to get 10 sets and see. They have been getting sucked up by the 240 crowd at a quick rate. They also can be in marginal condition - reman or not. They are 10-15 years old and are aluminum.
Is this a good bang for the buck upgrade?? No doubt there - you got ripped by Nissan when they decided to go cheap on the non-Brembo brakes for the hairdresser crowd. Does it have bling factor?? A little - especially if you paint/powdercost the calipers. Maybe not if you run 20's but .......
05-03-2006, 06:46 AM
#97
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Originally Posted by infantsam
Remember that sliding calipers use a bracket that has the slider pins and pad guides - i.e. floating type. Fixed calipers of tab mount design such as the TT caliper bolt directly to the knuckle - and what we are looking at here is using a bracket to adapt the tabs on the TT caliper to the z33 knuckle - but it isn't that easy as the bolts are a pia.
05-03-2006, 06:52 AM
#98
Originally Posted by trescincuenta
Not necessarily. The 240SX uses sliding calipers stock just like the non brembo 350Z does, and when you unbolt the sliding caliper, the z32 caliper bolts right up with no aforementioned adaptor bracket, all you needed was a custom brake line because the 240SX stock calipers used banjo fittings and the Z32 does not.
05-03-2006, 12:28 PM
#99
Originally Posted by infantsam
You are correct - but the sliding caliper is one part and the caliper hangar is another - neither are re-used. The 4 pot won't bolt up to the 350 though as the knuckle is not the same as the z32/240
The only foreseeible issue will be mounting the z32 caliper to the 350z stock attachment surface location. The real interesting thing I just found is that the z32 share "almost" identical specs with the Brembo. I wish a could do a side by side comparo of the two.
05-03-2006, 01:26 PM
#100
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Well the z32 calipers are meant for a 30mm thick rotor and the stock nonbrembo rotor is 24mm.... wont this cause the pistons to come out too far as the pads start to wear down? Some early Z32's came with calipers designed for a 26mm rotor which may be a better match for the stock rotors. Are the bigger '06 non brembo rotors thicker than 24mm?