N/A Power?
11-30-2007, 08:15 PM
#22
You guys are looking at things the wrong way here.
First of all I want to point out what other cars are doing, so that you get this mentality out of your head that 300whp is some unimaginal number that can not be beat.
K20 honda engines are making 250whp + regularly with stock blocks
and K24s are regularly making 280whp+ with stock blocks.
Now the larger the engine the harder it is to retain the same hp per L, but 300whp should NOT be difficult for a stock block VQ, and isn't if you play with the right stuff.
Remember the key to HP is RPM. Keep the engine efficient at 7000rpm and you will make your 300whp. The engine already makes more than enough torque stock to make 300whp, it just needs that torque AT 7000rpm.
What i'm trying to say is, it is about efficiency, and compromise.
Giving up bottom end and midrange power for peak power is not just very possible - its common practice. Aggresive cams, short intake runners, longtube headers and proper cam timing will make lots of peak power. Get rid of all of the restrictions in the system (they can ONLY be in the head - don't worry about the block), and you have 300, 320, 330 whp!!
Generally, with the exception of compression, blocks do not make power. They suppport it. Small gains will be made from balancing, weight reduction etc, but airflow is everything!
First of all I want to point out what other cars are doing, so that you get this mentality out of your head that 300whp is some unimaginal number that can not be beat.
K20 honda engines are making 250whp + regularly with stock blocks
and K24s are regularly making 280whp+ with stock blocks.
Now the larger the engine the harder it is to retain the same hp per L, but 300whp should NOT be difficult for a stock block VQ, and isn't if you play with the right stuff.
Remember the key to HP is RPM. Keep the engine efficient at 7000rpm and you will make your 300whp. The engine already makes more than enough torque stock to make 300whp, it just needs that torque AT 7000rpm.
What i'm trying to say is, it is about efficiency, and compromise.
Giving up bottom end and midrange power for peak power is not just very possible - its common practice. Aggresive cams, short intake runners, longtube headers and proper cam timing will make lots of peak power. Get rid of all of the restrictions in the system (they can ONLY be in the head - don't worry about the block), and you have 300, 320, 330 whp!!
Generally, with the exception of compression, blocks do not make power. They suppport it. Small gains will be made from balancing, weight reduction etc, but airflow is everything!
11-30-2007, 08:33 PM
#23
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Please lets not open the can of worms of "if X motor does it, and is smaller, so Y motor should do it easier since its bigger". It doesn't really work like that. If you want to compare other V series 6 cylinders to a VQ, that is far more valid comparison. But it really makes no difference what other motors are doing, other motors are not a VQ.
To generate the power in a VQ, particularly a DE series, takes rpm - those rpms's are likely well beyond what a stock bottom end will want to cope with. Some can argue that, or have opinions that differ from mine, and that's fine. With the right level of work, one can achieve a flat torque curve and good hp figures. You don't automatically have to trade a streetable power band for right side of the graph hp. All depends on what your goals are. Sure, you can trade 5000 rpm of broadness for 2000 rpm of peak power- but thats not for everyone, and with a car that weighs what a Z weighs, it wouldnt be a whole lot of fun either unless on a very long track.
In any event, if you are at the point of truly building a legit 300 + whp NA Z, building a block is the least of your worries or concerns. It takes considerable resources to make it happen, from cams, to engine mgmt, to labor costs, head work, etc etc. The higher you want to take it, the more those prices add up, and the more involved and customized the build becomes.
To generate the power in a VQ, particularly a DE series, takes rpm - those rpms's are likely well beyond what a stock bottom end will want to cope with. Some can argue that, or have opinions that differ from mine, and that's fine. With the right level of work, one can achieve a flat torque curve and good hp figures. You don't automatically have to trade a streetable power band for right side of the graph hp. All depends on what your goals are. Sure, you can trade 5000 rpm of broadness for 2000 rpm of peak power- but thats not for everyone, and with a car that weighs what a Z weighs, it wouldnt be a whole lot of fun either unless on a very long track.
In any event, if you are at the point of truly building a legit 300 + whp NA Z, building a block is the least of your worries or concerns. It takes considerable resources to make it happen, from cams, to engine mgmt, to labor costs, head work, etc etc. The higher you want to take it, the more those prices add up, and the more involved and customized the build becomes.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-30-2007 at 08:47 PM.
11-30-2007, 09:32 PM
#24
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 551
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
Please lets not open the can of worms of "if X motor does it, and is smaller, so Y motor should do it easier since its bigger". It doesn't really work like that. If you want to compare other V series 6 cylinders to a VQ, that is far more valid comparison. But it really makes no difference what other motors are doing, other motors are not a VQ.
To generate the power in a VQ, particularly a DE series, takes rpm - those rpms's are likely well beyond what a stock bottom end will want to cope with. Some can argue that, or have opinions that differ from mine, and that's fine. With the right level of work, one can achieve a flat torque curve and good hp figures. You don't automatically have to trade a streetable power band for right side of the graph hp. All depends on what your goals are. Sure, you can trade 5000 rpm of broadness for 2000 rpm of peak power- but thats not for everyone, and with a car that weighs what a Z weighs, it wouldnt be a whole lot of fun either unless on a very long track.
In any event, if you are at the point of truly building a legit 300 + whp NA Z, building a block is the least of your worries or concerns. It takes considerable resources to make it happen, from cams, to engine mgmt, to labor costs, head work, etc etc. The higher you want to take it, the more those prices add up, and the more involved and customized the build becomes.
To generate the power in a VQ, particularly a DE series, takes rpm - those rpms's are likely well beyond what a stock bottom end will want to cope with. Some can argue that, or have opinions that differ from mine, and that's fine. With the right level of work, one can achieve a flat torque curve and good hp figures. You don't automatically have to trade a streetable power band for right side of the graph hp. All depends on what your goals are. Sure, you can trade 5000 rpm of broadness for 2000 rpm of peak power- but thats not for everyone, and with a car that weighs what a Z weighs, it wouldnt be a whole lot of fun either unless on a very long track.
In any event, if you are at the point of truly building a legit 300 + whp NA Z, building a block is the least of your worries or concerns. It takes considerable resources to make it happen, from cams, to engine mgmt, to labor costs, head work, etc etc. The higher you want to take it, the more those prices add up, and the more involved and customized the build becomes.
Not to mention how much fun a high reving NA VQ that is making around 300 rwhp. To me it was well worth the expense. Especially when you race and beat someone that would normally beat a bolt on VQ. Talk about a stealthy surprise.
12-01-2007, 06:40 AM
#26
Originally Posted by rednezz
+1
Not to mention how much fun a high reving NA VQ that is making around 300 rwhp. To me it was well worth the expense. Especially when you race and beat someone that would normally beat a bolt on VQ. Talk about a stealthy surprise.
Not to mention how much fun a high reving NA VQ that is making around 300 rwhp. To me it was well worth the expense. Especially when you race and beat someone that would normally beat a bolt on VQ. Talk about a stealthy surprise.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
