Thought 268º Tomei cams were agressive?
11-02-2003, 09:44 AM
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Small cams can help. Aggressive cams will hurt. You would want a shorter duration with FI. I think the biggest I would go with FI is the NISMOs or the midrange Tomeis. I will probably use the Tomeis.
11-02-2003, 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by toykilla
are cams good to use with FI ?
are cams good to use with FI ?
-non
11-02-2003, 11:41 AM
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once again guys, this info means nothing without knowing how it was measured...for all we know, the Tomei 268's might be the same exact cam as the Esprit........
as we acquie the various cams, we'll let you know what the specs actually are and how they compare to each other.
The above statement about duration is plain wrong - lots fo FI cars do VERY well with 272 degree cams - DSM's/Evo's are among the most popular. Cams are part of a system, nt a standalone mod, so they must be chosen very carefully, notably by compression, head cc's, valve size, desired power band, etc etc. To say you need low duration is just a blanket misstatement.
as we acquie the various cams, we'll let you know what the specs actually are and how they compare to each other.
The above statement about duration is plain wrong - lots fo FI cars do VERY well with 272 degree cams - DSM's/Evo's are among the most popular. Cams are part of a system, nt a standalone mod, so they must be chosen very carefully, notably by compression, head cc's, valve size, desired power band, etc etc. To say you need low duration is just a blanket misstatement.
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11-02-2003, 12:59 PM
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Ok we'll see. I have been over this before. There are things called general rules of thumb. This is one of them. There are exceptions to everything, of course. You don't know one thing more than any of us about the cam/FI combo on a Z. History much more strongly supports a smaller cam with FI than a larger cam. It does not matter how they are measured as long as they are all measured the same. And they are. Because if they were measured differently the specs would be totally different. We know the baseline factory cam specs and everything else is a comparison from there. Prove otherwise.
Last edited by FLY BY Z; 11-02-2003 at 01:02 PM.
11-02-2003, 02:53 PM
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Because unless Tomei, NISMO, Esprit and others have al had their cams 'speced" at the same local and with the same bench, to say they can all be directly compared is not looking at the full picture. This is precisely why I am taking the time and money to have all these cams spec'd ourselves, so you guys will know what each one will do, and more importantly, will know how they all compare to stock, as well as to each other There is as much amrketing BS in this business as in others, and frequently, manufacturer (many of which are nthing more than marketing companies), will use the same exact product as another firm, and becuase its tested slightly differently, can be specced slightly differently, and thus marketed as something else.
To suggest smaller cam works best on a FI car is honestly being shortsighted. On an FI car, the proper cam sizing is relative to the amount of cfm's the head(s) will flow, the method of FI, if a turbo, the exact turbo specs, compression ratio, desired powerband, desired peak HP level, and many other factors. From there, it is then critical to adjsut cam timing as well as ecu changes to exploit what the new cam can offer. I am in no way sayign bigger is always better, it is clearly not. However, on a wide variety of cars, cams with more lift and duration, as a standalone mod, can produce tremendous results (we typically see gains of around 25 hp at the wheels on an Evo with the HKS 272 intake and exhast, and fiddling with the cam timing). On my older ZX (my fast car), I switched from what had been known as an 'aggressive" cam for my motor, to one we designed and had made for us from a billet stock. Our new cam was vastly more extreme than the previous one, and if I posted the specs here, would be "big dog" by any stretch of the imagination. However, given my turbo, other existing mods, and results we had been seing on the dyno, we knew it would work very well. The new cam was installed, allowed to break in for a week, then we went to the dyno to test and tune (I run and Electromotive standalone ecu on that car). By tuning the ecu and retarding cam timing a bit (this is a SOHC motor), I picked up 35 hp at the wheels, and 46 lb feet of torque, all at the same boost level. This power increase was prevelant as soon as boost initially hit.
You have to understand that as a fellow Z owner, I am always eager to get the best combo of parts for my car, regardless of cost. However, as a vendor, I know how this business works, especially with many of the Japanese "tuning" firms (quotes intentional). Many of hem as stated above, are nothing more than marketing companies that do no actual fabrication nor design of parts. Plus, we already sell every one of the aftermarket cams currently on the market for this car, and as such, I want to be able to accurately tell our customers, or potential customers what the differences really are - simply taking the manufactuers word for it is often a waste of time. So far the only ones we know the difference of are NISMO compared to stock, as Jeff 2 Peformance Nissan took the time to have them both speced at the same place with the same equipment. This is teh only way we are going to know what is what.
To suggest smaller cam works best on a FI car is honestly being shortsighted. On an FI car, the proper cam sizing is relative to the amount of cfm's the head(s) will flow, the method of FI, if a turbo, the exact turbo specs, compression ratio, desired powerband, desired peak HP level, and many other factors. From there, it is then critical to adjsut cam timing as well as ecu changes to exploit what the new cam can offer. I am in no way sayign bigger is always better, it is clearly not. However, on a wide variety of cars, cams with more lift and duration, as a standalone mod, can produce tremendous results (we typically see gains of around 25 hp at the wheels on an Evo with the HKS 272 intake and exhast, and fiddling with the cam timing). On my older ZX (my fast car), I switched from what had been known as an 'aggressive" cam for my motor, to one we designed and had made for us from a billet stock. Our new cam was vastly more extreme than the previous one, and if I posted the specs here, would be "big dog" by any stretch of the imagination. However, given my turbo, other existing mods, and results we had been seing on the dyno, we knew it would work very well. The new cam was installed, allowed to break in for a week, then we went to the dyno to test and tune (I run and Electromotive standalone ecu on that car). By tuning the ecu and retarding cam timing a bit (this is a SOHC motor), I picked up 35 hp at the wheels, and 46 lb feet of torque, all at the same boost level. This power increase was prevelant as soon as boost initially hit.
You have to understand that as a fellow Z owner, I am always eager to get the best combo of parts for my car, regardless of cost. However, as a vendor, I know how this business works, especially with many of the Japanese "tuning" firms (quotes intentional). Many of hem as stated above, are nothing more than marketing companies that do no actual fabrication nor design of parts. Plus, we already sell every one of the aftermarket cams currently on the market for this car, and as such, I want to be able to accurately tell our customers, or potential customers what the differences really are - simply taking the manufactuers word for it is often a waste of time. So far the only ones we know the difference of are NISMO compared to stock, as Jeff 2 Peformance Nissan took the time to have them both speced at the same place with the same equipment. This is teh only way we are going to know what is what.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-02-2003 at 03:00 PM.
11-02-2003, 03:19 PM
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I agree, but at the same time, this has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Yes, there is marketing hype, etc. etc. but the fact remains that comparitively, the ideal sized big cam for a NA motor will 9.9 times out of 10 be oversized for a FI application. No one is saying that they know what cam is perfect for a FI Z. We are saying that FI needs a cam with different specs than a cam for NA. It is a different game. No one is saying what cam to get or what is best. No one knows. Anyways, please complete your website so I can shop for stuff. I don't know what you have and there is stuff I want to buy. Hurry up!
11-03-2003, 08:04 AM
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Oh I totally agree with that - 2 completely methods of getting the air into the chamber 
New site is just about done, lots of Z content too - hang tight for a little while longer
New site is just about done, lots of Z content too - hang tight for a little while longer
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