My 450Z Build thread - VH45DE Swap
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My 450Z Thread - VH45DE Swap
In my recent thread about hoods with good engine bay clearance, I announced I was doing a V8 swap with my '05 base since the VQ35 blew due to an oil leak + drifting. I also said the engine I've chosen is the VH45DE out of the Infiniti Q45, the car with probably my favorite rear seats (they're more like a sofa) in the entire world. But, the rear seats aren't what you guys are interested in most likely.
If you're like me and want to just see some pictures and a little bit of information, go ahead and skip down to the next post I just want to be cool and talk about why I chose this engine and whatnot first. Just for your guys' sake, I even stopped myself. I could rave on about this engine more than Glenn Beck gets emotional.
Why the VH45.
There are a couple different reasons why I chose to go with the VH45 over rebuilding my stock engine, replacing it with another VQ, etc. The main reason was price. This swap is surprisingly cheap, just shy over $1000 more than replacing the engine with another VQ.
Secondly, reliability. If you're familiar with the engine, you'll probably know that it's practically built to be thrashed; if you want to put a massive turbo on it the only thing you need to replace are fuel injectors. Same with going Twin turbo, only upgrade needed are the injectors. That's a HUGE plus point for me if I plan on going F/I in the future. I have a friend that has a Q45 with 220,XXX miles on it. Even with that many miles on it he still drifts that heavy mobile-spring sofa and coffee lounge. When he was replacing an oil pan the other week he decided to crack open the engine and take a look at how the internals were holding up. They looked like they were straight out of the factory. 2 buddies of mine that have VH45's in their drift S13's have had the same experiences as well. Plus, if the motor does go I can just pick one up for $500 and plop it right back in. No big deal.
Third, power. Stock, this engine should be putting me at around 290 - 300whp and tons o' torques. With my $250 ECU from Arizona, it'll add a minimum of 20whp, which brings it up to 300whp. However, the company that does the ECU's has notified me that the horsepower increase from the ECU has been upped from 20-30hp to 30-40hp. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty damn good to me. That's not even taking other easy possible N/A mods into account such as cams and all.
Fourth, have you heard the sound this thing makes?! It sounds as smooth and mean as Beethoven conducting a choir of steroid-fed elephants, it's absolutely FANTASTIC!
Fifth, weight. I know a lot of people only really care about quarter mile times and who you can beat from a 40 roll on the freeway, ESPECIALLY in my area. So in that case, who cares how heavy it is as long as it throws down a bajillion horsepower and 5000 lb/ft of torque. However, I could care less about all of that stuff. I'm a drifter and road racer, I want my car to be able to perform incredibly through the corners mainly. THIS is the biggest plus point with the VH45, it only weights ~50lbs more than a VQ35. That's practically difference of having a beer cabinet in your hatch. As someone who is obsessed with going around corners, that is a massive plus point.
Sixth, practicality. I mentioned it's reliable, but that only scratches the surface. I get to keep power steering and A/C, and I'm actually going electric on A/C, still not sure about power steering. All my gauges will still read accurately; thanks to the mouthful of torque available instantly, I'll be getting more yummy MPG's. In the city I was getting around 17MPG with my VQ, I should be getting an easy 20MPG in the city with the VH45. Little things, but those are the things that also sold me on this engine.
Disadvantages?
As with everything, there are disadvantages with this swap. So far, these are the only ones we've been able to come up with so far (which is really good, considering only one of them is somewhat thought provoking, while the others are just kind of "oh well" things).
First off, no more VQ35
. The aftermarket bolt-on market just isn't there for VH45's, so some aftermarket things are somewhat difficult to find I've been told, but that's not really a big deal for me, I'm probably going to supercharge or turbo it in the end if I decide I want more than 350-400 whp (Which should be very easy to get).
Second, bye bye 6th gear. The stock 350z 6-speed transmission would be way too difficult to fabricate and adapt to the engine, sadly.
Third, and possibly the biggest disadvantage. I have to watch out for the rear end so the torque doesn't destroy everything back there. This part is going to be very experimental on how we deal with this, the rear will still be good to drift and road race, but we're more worried about hard launches and such causing some rear-end issues.
The plan.
Right now, the plan is obviously get it working. However, there are no doubts that it will not be running and working perfectly by the end of the month, the things that take the most time are the transmission adapter plate and the clutch/flywheel.
However, we're hoping we have that solved because my friend makes the transmission adapter plates very quickly and they are even better than the really expensive ones that take two weeks to produce from some company; and my friend Cris that first suggested the swap has a stock Z32 flywheel in perfect condition at his house.
Keeping that in mind, this is our plan at the moment:
1. Get clutch / flywheel / transmission adapter plate
2. Test fit everything, see whether I need a new hood or not. (Looks like we might be able to get away with stock hood, but probably will get the '07 hood which will fit it no problems.
3. Relocate new battery to back for weight distribution.
4. Obviously get car running and all of that stuff relevant to swaps.
5. Paint valve covers and such (Taking suggestions as to a good color for the valve colors! We're thinking maybe either PPW like my exterior or electric blue.. any suggestions?!) and other small stuff like that.
Once it's all working and whatnot, here's my ENGINE tuning plans.. probably won't occur until after I start making money back (I'm completely broke due to the swap, was totally unprepared for it...) and get my suspension upgrades finished.
A. Cams, manifolds, etc. and try and hit a minimum of 360 to the wheels.
B. Slap a single turbo on there for a minimum of 460whp (So far after seeing other VH45's responding that way, that's what we've made our baseline for F/I).
I'm not entirely sure which route I'm going to take yet, as I don't really enjoy drifting with too much power so I'm not sure I'll enjoy the 460whp. We'll see!
Quick little idea of what is needed.
For my swap, some of the following will be used (I might get something wrong, and I know I'm probably forgetting many things, but I can verify with my buddy doing the swap to correct it later):
VH45DE out of an Infiniti Q45 Touring with 84,000 miles.
Z32 5-Speed Transmission
Z32 flywheel
Z32 stock clutch (Possibly, might go with aftermarket)
Electric A/C Pump (Possibly going electric power steering as well)
Custom VH45 - Z32 transmission adapter plate
Custom Driveshaft
If you're like me and want to just see some pictures and a little bit of information, go ahead and skip down to the next post I just want to be cool and talk about why I chose this engine and whatnot first. Just for your guys' sake, I even stopped myself. I could rave on about this engine more than Glenn Beck gets emotional.
Why the VH45.
There are a couple different reasons why I chose to go with the VH45 over rebuilding my stock engine, replacing it with another VQ, etc. The main reason was price. This swap is surprisingly cheap, just shy over $1000 more than replacing the engine with another VQ.
Secondly, reliability. If you're familiar with the engine, you'll probably know that it's practically built to be thrashed; if you want to put a massive turbo on it the only thing you need to replace are fuel injectors. Same with going Twin turbo, only upgrade needed are the injectors. That's a HUGE plus point for me if I plan on going F/I in the future. I have a friend that has a Q45 with 220,XXX miles on it. Even with that many miles on it he still drifts that heavy mobile-spring sofa and coffee lounge. When he was replacing an oil pan the other week he decided to crack open the engine and take a look at how the internals were holding up. They looked like they were straight out of the factory. 2 buddies of mine that have VH45's in their drift S13's have had the same experiences as well. Plus, if the motor does go I can just pick one up for $500 and plop it right back in. No big deal.
Third, power. Stock, this engine should be putting me at around 290 - 300whp and tons o' torques. With my $250 ECU from Arizona, it'll add a minimum of 20whp, which brings it up to 300whp. However, the company that does the ECU's has notified me that the horsepower increase from the ECU has been upped from 20-30hp to 30-40hp. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty damn good to me. That's not even taking other easy possible N/A mods into account such as cams and all.
Fourth, have you heard the sound this thing makes?! It sounds as smooth and mean as Beethoven conducting a choir of steroid-fed elephants, it's absolutely FANTASTIC!
Fifth, weight. I know a lot of people only really care about quarter mile times and who you can beat from a 40 roll on the freeway, ESPECIALLY in my area. So in that case, who cares how heavy it is as long as it throws down a bajillion horsepower and 5000 lb/ft of torque. However, I could care less about all of that stuff. I'm a drifter and road racer, I want my car to be able to perform incredibly through the corners mainly. THIS is the biggest plus point with the VH45, it only weights ~50lbs more than a VQ35. That's practically difference of having a beer cabinet in your hatch. As someone who is obsessed with going around corners, that is a massive plus point.
Sixth, practicality. I mentioned it's reliable, but that only scratches the surface. I get to keep power steering and A/C, and I'm actually going electric on A/C, still not sure about power steering. All my gauges will still read accurately; thanks to the mouthful of torque available instantly, I'll be getting more yummy MPG's. In the city I was getting around 17MPG with my VQ, I should be getting an easy 20MPG in the city with the VH45. Little things, but those are the things that also sold me on this engine.
Disadvantages?
As with everything, there are disadvantages with this swap. So far, these are the only ones we've been able to come up with so far (which is really good, considering only one of them is somewhat thought provoking, while the others are just kind of "oh well" things).
First off, no more VQ35
. The aftermarket bolt-on market just isn't there for VH45's, so some aftermarket things are somewhat difficult to find I've been told, but that's not really a big deal for me, I'm probably going to supercharge or turbo it in the end if I decide I want more than 350-400 whp (Which should be very easy to get).Second, bye bye 6th gear. The stock 350z 6-speed transmission would be way too difficult to fabricate and adapt to the engine, sadly.
Third, and possibly the biggest disadvantage. I have to watch out for the rear end so the torque doesn't destroy everything back there. This part is going to be very experimental on how we deal with this, the rear will still be good to drift and road race, but we're more worried about hard launches and such causing some rear-end issues.
The plan.
Right now, the plan is obviously get it working. However, there are no doubts that it will not be running and working perfectly by the end of the month, the things that take the most time are the transmission adapter plate and the clutch/flywheel.
However, we're hoping we have that solved because my friend makes the transmission adapter plates very quickly and they are even better than the really expensive ones that take two weeks to produce from some company; and my friend Cris that first suggested the swap has a stock Z32 flywheel in perfect condition at his house.
Keeping that in mind, this is our plan at the moment:
1. Get clutch / flywheel / transmission adapter plate
2. Test fit everything, see whether I need a new hood or not. (Looks like we might be able to get away with stock hood, but probably will get the '07 hood which will fit it no problems.
3. Relocate new battery to back for weight distribution.
4. Obviously get car running and all of that stuff relevant to swaps.
5. Paint valve covers and such (Taking suggestions as to a good color for the valve colors! We're thinking maybe either PPW like my exterior or electric blue.. any suggestions?!) and other small stuff like that.
Once it's all working and whatnot, here's my ENGINE tuning plans.. probably won't occur until after I start making money back (I'm completely broke due to the swap, was totally unprepared for it...) and get my suspension upgrades finished.
A. Cams, manifolds, etc. and try and hit a minimum of 360 to the wheels.
B. Slap a single turbo on there for a minimum of 460whp (So far after seeing other VH45's responding that way, that's what we've made our baseline for F/I).
I'm not entirely sure which route I'm going to take yet, as I don't really enjoy drifting with too much power so I'm not sure I'll enjoy the 460whp. We'll see!
Quick little idea of what is needed.
For my swap, some of the following will be used (I might get something wrong, and I know I'm probably forgetting many things, but I can verify with my buddy doing the swap to correct it later):
VH45DE out of an Infiniti Q45 Touring with 84,000 miles.
Z32 5-Speed Transmission
Z32 flywheel
Z32 stock clutch (Possibly, might go with aftermarket)
Electric A/C Pump (Possibly going electric power steering as well)
Custom VH45 - Z32 transmission adapter plate
Custom Driveshaft
Last edited by Deedilus; Sep 11, 2010 at 02:45 PM.
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Update #1.
Update #1.
Engine out
All that's left are some wires, lines, and two lonely exhaust pipes.
Engineless Z33 comparison with engineless Z32... quite a big difference.
The VH45DE that he just swapped into that red Z32, took it out to paint the covers and manifold.
My new VH45DE, 84XXX miles. Fresh out of the Infiniti Q45 we got it from. Got in a front end collision, cars valued at $1200 and they messed up the front headlights, hood, and bumper. Damage didn't even get to radiator and insurance company totalled it. We got it in exchange for my old VQ35. It's almost ready for cleaning!
That's pretty much it for now, if you have any valve color suggestions that might look good let me know! I'm still trying to come up with one I really like!
Engine out
All that's left are some wires, lines, and two lonely exhaust pipes.
Engineless Z33 comparison with engineless Z32... quite a big difference.
The VH45DE that he just swapped into that red Z32, took it out to paint the covers and manifold.
My new VH45DE, 84XXX miles. Fresh out of the Infiniti Q45 we got it from. Got in a front end collision, cars valued at $1200 and they messed up the front headlights, hood, and bumper. Damage didn't even get to radiator and insurance company totalled it. We got it in exchange for my old VQ35. It's almost ready for cleaning!
That's pretty much it for now, if you have any valve color suggestions that might look good let me know! I'm still trying to come up with one I really like!
That engine looks huge!!!!
Trending Topics
There are cars making upwards of 600+ ft lbs on a bone stock 350Z tranny, so your theory that it is not up to the task is completely false. I won't pretend to know what may or may not have happened to your friends' with considerably less torque
As for the rear, same holds true. Your V8 is not putting out monsterous amounts of torque, and a stock Z rear can easily sustain it. There is nothing remarkable about what a VH engine puts down torque wise, even in modded NA form.
You also loose the nice carbon driveshaft you have and are forced to go custom.
You also can say a preliminary goodbye to your gauge cluster. Workable? sure, but will require alot of work
As for the rear, same holds true. Your V8 is not putting out monsterous amounts of torque, and a stock Z rear can easily sustain it. There is nothing remarkable about what a VH engine puts down torque wise, even in modded NA form.
You also loose the nice carbon driveshaft you have and are forced to go custom.
You also can say a preliminary goodbye to your gauge cluster. Workable? sure, but will require alot of work
Last edited by Z1 Performance; Aug 7, 2010 at 04:43 PM.
^ +1
On the juice, my torque is about what you're saying a VH should put down with N/A mods and my tranny/rear is fine. I've been drag racing in the Z for quite some time and no issues caused by "monster torque" of <400 ft-lbs, even during hard launches.
Look how many people are doing fine with their stock tranny/rear:
https://my350z.com/forum/drag/233840...ons-stock.html
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction-182/
On the juice, my torque is about what you're saying a VH should put down with N/A mods and my tranny/rear is fine. I've been drag racing in the Z for quite some time and no issues caused by "monster torque" of <400 ft-lbs, even during hard launches.
Look how many people are doing fine with their stock tranny/rear:
https://my350z.com/forum/drag/233840...ons-stock.html
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction-182/
As others have said, tons of people running big power with stock rear ends (or preferably a good clutch type). Why a Z32 trans? Lots of people who had previous "upgraded" to Z32 transmissions are now moving to Z33 transmissions on SR swaps. Z33 is cheaper, easily obtainable, easily as strong and has better ratio's, granted the last bit is opinion 
I kept the Z33 6 Speed and the rear diff (with a Carbonetics 1.5 way installed) in my VK56 swapped Z.
A friend of mine has a modded LS7 in his with a 4 speed dogbox with a Z33 rear diff in it.... I think you'll be fine with a VH.
I kept the Z33 6 Speed and the rear diff (with a Carbonetics 1.5 way installed) in my VK56 swapped Z.
A friend of mine has a modded LS7 in his with a 4 speed dogbox with a Z33 rear diff in it.... I think you'll be fine with a VH.
Last edited by MPD47; Aug 7, 2010 at 05:56 PM.
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I'm actually really glad you vets chimed in, because I wanted to ask about the whole torque thing. I'm glad some of you pushing huge torque numbers are doing good with the rear end (even with drag), so that's definitely eased my mind a bit.
As far as the transmission goes, I thought the stock would be fine; I was just going off of what my friend doing the swap told me. I'm already broke because of the swap, so I didn't want to have to get another transmission in case the first one blew, so I gave the thumbs up to him on using the Z32 transmission just because there are 2 drift S13's with the VH45 in it that use the Z32 transmission as well and they have been working great. I'll bring it up again to him, because I was confident in the stock tranny until they all said it would rip the gears apart; but now I have a good back-up argument for that via you guys.
Also, Z1 you are correct on the custom driveshaft, I forgot to add that to the list. And as far as the cluster, we're going to get it to work even if it does take a while. I can handle inaccurate dials for a little bit until it's fixed.
Thanks for the support guys, and keep up with those opinions. Something you guys think of that I didn't think of could save me a ton, and then I would love you forever.
As far as the transmission goes, I thought the stock would be fine; I was just going off of what my friend doing the swap told me. I'm already broke because of the swap, so I didn't want to have to get another transmission in case the first one blew, so I gave the thumbs up to him on using the Z32 transmission just because there are 2 drift S13's with the VH45 in it that use the Z32 transmission as well and they have been working great. I'll bring it up again to him, because I was confident in the stock tranny until they all said it would rip the gears apart; but now I have a good back-up argument for that via you guys.
Also, Z1 you are correct on the custom driveshaft, I forgot to add that to the list. And as far as the cluster, we're going to get it to work even if it does take a while. I can handle inaccurate dials for a little bit until it's fixed.
Thanks for the support guys, and keep up with those opinions. Something you guys think of that I didn't think of could save me a ton, and then I would love you forever.
You're not going to get a stock cluster to work without a stock ecu and you're not going to get a stock ecu to control that engine ( I suspect) It's got nothing to do with being accurate unfortunately
You would be better served doing a custom cluster of some sort using a q45 cluster as your basis
you also will forgo airbags (not a big deal IMHO), possibly lose the ABS. You also will need to convert to a cable throttle and you will lose your OBD2 (not sure if TX has strict inspection requirements). By converting to a cable you also lose traction control and vdc if so equipped though no big deal IMHO
You would be better served doing a custom cluster of some sort using a q45 cluster as your basis
you also will forgo airbags (not a big deal IMHO), possibly lose the ABS. You also will need to convert to a cable throttle and you will lose your OBD2 (not sure if TX has strict inspection requirements). By converting to a cable you also lose traction control and vdc if so equipped though no big deal IMHO
Last edited by Z1 Performance; Aug 7, 2010 at 06:49 PM.
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You're not going to get a stock cluster to work without a stock ecu and you're not going to get a stock ecu to control that engine ( I suspect) It's got nothing to do with being accurate unfortunately
You would be better served doing a custom cluster of some sort using a q45 cluster as your basis
you also will forgo airbags (not a big deal IMHO), possibly lose the ABS. You also will need to convert to a cable throttle and you will lose your OBD2 (not sure if TX has strict inspection requirements). By converting to a cable you also lose traction control and vdc if so equipped though no big deal IMHO
You would be better served doing a custom cluster of some sort using a q45 cluster as your basis
you also will forgo airbags (not a big deal IMHO), possibly lose the ABS. You also will need to convert to a cable throttle and you will lose your OBD2 (not sure if TX has strict inspection requirements). By converting to a cable you also lose traction control and vdc if so equipped though no big deal IMHO
Airbags were going to be removed anyway, ABS we'll see how that turns out, the conversion to cable throttle isn't a problem at all, and I didn't have traction control or VDC due to it being a base model.
I'll keep you posted!
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I'd rather not. From what I've read, the VH45 seems to be a stronger engine internally, not to mention much cheaper. If I wanted to go VK, I would have.
Hell yeah! ....kinda. Haha, I'm in San Antonio but my buddy doing the swap is in South Austin. If you'd like though you can join us on our next visit over there to see the progress.