I wouldn't say there were loads of blown motors by the same time that the APS kit has been out.

The APS kit has only been out a couple of months and I only see a few people with them on, I saw a a lot more people with Greddy kits, and the APS doesn't seem to be flying off the shelves either I know there are a couple of vendors with kits from the first shipment still on the shelves.

Basically this boils down to you guys acting like Peter is our buddy, he is in it for the business, this is a good point that was brought up but what was his final message???

If he is our buddy why wasn't the wire issue disclosed sooner, it inly came out when people started to see the kits.

 

That's crazy......if I had a kit entering the market that had all the benefits of my R&D from a full year of testing I would not talk about it either. With so many kits in developement at that time why would you try to help the competition??? I think there are more APS kits out there than you realize....there are several on the boards already and how many do we not know about because they are not forum subscribers. I agree that there may have been some new engineering tidbits released by APS in an effort to sell more of their kits. But.....if this is the company trying to educate the customer as to the benefits of their R&D then more power to them. I would probably do it too to promote my product that may be more expensive.....but is more complete in addressing more of the FI issues with this motor.

 

I'm being perfectly realistic. There are internally stock VQ motors out there in cars that have been rolling around with OVER 500whp without any internal modification for some time now. In fact, one of my best friends (who will probably be posting in this thread rather soon) has a 95 maxima that put down 538fwhp and 60xfwtq a while back. That car has a STOCK VQ30DE motor in it which supposedly "weaker" rods than our VQ35DE. And on another note that car came with ~160fwhp from the factory. Do the math and that's almost four times the factory power output. Futhermore, motors like the 2JZ-GTE have been pushed to near 4 times their factory power output also. So am I worried about "doubling" the factory power output on a VQ. Hell no. Not with the right tune, gas and supporting mods.

 

Everyone has good points here..and that's what makes this a horse race. Engine buildind and F/I is not a precise science..more like an art, especially given the newness of the VQ and F/I.

No doubt that APS makes the most complete out there. But to the credit of Greddy and PE.....APS was third to market and had the ability to perfect and improve the existing kits out there. And there is no shame there....they made a terrific collection of products.

But as stated by several memebers, there are a myriad of different variables that can contribute to engine failure. Is oil temp and starvation one of the them? Certainly could be. Is bad tuning one of the them? Certainly could be. How about weak ring lands, or weak rods...again....could be.

I think the most prudent thing is to do what a bunch of us have done....and invest in doing the build-up correctly...if you decide to breach the 400whp mark on a daily basis. An oil pan upgrade is a good idea, an oil cooler, forged internals, new clutch, sheild CAS. It's ALL part of the equation, and needs to be addresses. Going Deep did a terrific right up on "how to do it right"...and its pretty thorough.

 

There are a bunch of APS kits out there.

Im 1 of 3 just in my area. There is another one with a built motor not to far away. I find the APS guys to be slightly shy about posting stuff. Anyways lets get some good info in here now, enough BS about how much the engine was designed for "bla bla. Lets see some hard evidence about oil starvation and oil temp.

 

I'm sure that a good synthetic oil would help under extreme high load conditions/high temp conditions as would a good full flow engine oil cooler.

Peter

 

This would be ideal of course though I'd rather strip the engine after say 20,000 miles on a APS TT system and have a good look at the big ends and mains, i'm fairly sure we're onto an important issue here.



This is posssible of course though I have no way of knowing by what degree.

Peter

 

Maybe, though I suspect the improved baffling around the oil pickup is what really helps to reduce/eliminate the oil starvation and the extra oil helps with the total cooling of the engine oil.

Thanks

Peter

 

Correct imho, if I'm right with my diagnosis the engine will suffer from oil starvation under certain road conditions and damaged big end bearings down the path, the best rods and crankshaft on the planet won't handle oil starvation for long before sustaining engine damage.

Peter

 

If bearing spins in the big end of the con rod it's all over very quickly, the common term in the trade is a spun bearing though call it would you prefer.

Peter

 

I would for sure, I think a pan spacer is not a bad idea though you really need to look closey at improving the baffling around the oil pick up to reduce oil starvation imho.

Peter

 

Peter, did you see what 2jzfan said about the baffling? Just wondering what your thoughts on that is.

 

If you need to the lower the static comp ratio for low octane fuel or if you're intending to pull big revs from your engine then I say go ahead and do the forged engine internals in any event.

I still believe that looking into the oil starvation issue is very worthwhile because if i'm correct with my diagnosis an engine with forged internals can obviously still suffer from oil starvation and the resulting damage.

Thanks

Peter

 

The APS high volume air cooled oil pan will definately be included in the APS intercooled turbo system and the other oil drain port will be plugged with a fitting to blank off the spare port .

Thanks

Peter

 

Correct, it will be for sure.

Peter

 

I very much doubt that this excessive oil consumption is related to the oil starvation issue, you more likely have an issue with the oil control rings or possibly have worn valve guides or valve stem seals with that amount of oil consumption, hope this helps.

Peter

 

Certainly the oil starvation issue is genuinely worth loking into imho, I just though I would share my current thoughts with you guys.

I've seen many spun/damaged big end bearing in my younger days as this is what I did for a living, day in day out for 7 years. If I'm wrong then so be it though I have a very strong feeling that there's a serious issue with oil supply/lubrication causing these big end bearing/con rod failures.

I hope this thread prompts more experienced guys to look into this big end bearing failure issue, better to be safe than sorry imho.

Peter

Off to the Melbourne Gran Prix now, catch up with you guys soon.

 

one thing i have not seen anyone touch on yet is machining. what tolerances or process is the factory using. also aluminum going through that many heat cycles is going to shift, especially on a new block. there is the chance of core shift on the main bearings that would produce uneven bearing wear also. v type motors also do not have as much support on the crank shaft as inline motors and having longer distances between main bearings which can lead to crank flexing for guys putting down good power.
also what tolerances does nissan use for checking crank straightness when they build the motor. surely they have specs, but maybe not quite as tight of specs as would need to build a high hp motor. i have seen uneven bearing wear in quite a few of my v8 motors and most were due to core shift, crankout of tolerance for straightness, not giving a seasoned block a line bore or over rev which lead to crank flexing.

 

What was wrong with that Toyota car? (the smoke at the first) And what was wrong with the car that was having cooling problems or something?

Sorry for the off-topic post.

I'll contribute some more to this in a few minutes.

 

Ok...the real question is what do the bearings look like with the stock turbo/supercharger system after quite a bit of miles?

IF they look like they are far too worn for only a certain amount of power, then the solution may be to get:
Larger oil pan and better (pumps more at a faster rate and has a larger capacity) oil pump.
or
enlargen the oil holes (not feasible)
or
switch to a dry-sump system (not feasible for the price).

So what we have weighing against us is:
Weak rods
Unshielded crankshaft and camshaft angle sensor wire may produce scattered ignition timing
Potential oil starvation problem which can be solved for the cheapest amount is a larger oil pan and larger capacity, quicker flow rate at a larger pace.
Stock fuel system is inadequate over 400rwhp.