Turbonetics Turbo Seal Leaking AGAIN !!!! (3rd Turbo)
10-30-2006, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
ED I EXPECT A POST FROM YOU OR ROBERT ON WENSDAY REGARDING STAGE 2 :d
Jeez, I don't even fly into Vegas till Wednesday morning. 
10-31-2006, 04:07 AM
#62
10-31-2006, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed 718
( Chimmike ) We try to take care of our customers when we can that is why you guys keep coming back 
Ed.......I know
-Mike
11-01-2006, 05:50 PM
#64
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
After a WOT pass, are you putting the clutch and upshifting to a higher gear? Or are you going WOT, and then letting off the throttle without engaging the clutch or upshifting?
I very high RPM decel while in gear isnt the greatest thing to do to an engine, so I am just trying to understand exactly what situation the smoke is occuring.
I very high RPM decel while in gear isnt the greatest thing to do to an engine, so I am just trying to understand exactly what situation the smoke is occuring.
I put the silicone coupler back on the turbo - intercooler pipe after it slipped off due to it being covered in oil. I cleaned up the pipe, and silicone boot with brake cleaner to remove all the oil and start with a clean surface. I put it back in tightened everything up and went out for a drive. After WOT I would upshift to the next gear and the exhaust would let out a huge cloud of white smoke stinkin of burning oil. The third time I boosted the car the silicone coupler blew off again!!!!!!!!!
It must be covered in oil again. That's how much the turbo seal is leaking. I'm so f*ckin pissed off !!!! 
I wouid venture a guess that this turbo was never rebuilt and is the exact same turbo returned to me as it was sent to them... with the leaking seal. How else would you exlain a turbo going bad with 150mi on it. I'm so sick of this car. I wish I kept it stock. Since modifying it it has never run right, and it has not been from the lack of money I have thrown at it. Money was never an issue. So even with all that money thrown at this it's still a mess. Anyone thinking of going FI.... this is a very real possibility. I have over $35,000 in clutches, a forged motor and this turbo kit.
JET
Last edited by JETPILOT; 11-01-2006 at 07:18 PM.
11-01-2006, 07:15 PM
#65
I feel for you Larry. I have been in that situation with other cars in the past. I had a procharged car back in 94 and chit was always focking up on that car. Tranny, blower,idler pulley bearings, power steering pump, oil line spraying oil on the headers 
, etc!!
, etc!!
11-01-2006, 07:56 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by JETPILOT
UPDATE
I put the silicone coupler back on the turbo - intercooler pipe after it slipped off due to it being covered in oil. I cleaned up the pipe, and silicone boot with brake cleaner to remove all the oil and start with a clean surface. I put it back in tightened everything up and went out for a drive. After WOT I would upshift to the next gear and the exhaust would let out a huge cloud of white smoke stinkin of burning oil. The third time I boosted the car the silicone coupler blew off again!!!!!!!!! It must be covered in oil again. That's how much the turbo seal is leaking. I'm so f*ckin pissed off !!!!
I wouid venture a guess that this turbo was never rebuilt and is the exact samer turbo returned to me as it was sent to them... with the leaking seal. How else would you exlain a turbo going bad with 150mi on it. I'm so sick of this car. I wish I kept it stock. Since modifying it it has never run right, and it has not been from the lack of money I have thrown at it. Money was never an issue. So even with all that money thrown at this it's still a mess. Anyone thinking of going FI.... this is a very real possibility. I have over $35,000 in clutches, a forged motor and this turbo kit.
JET
I put the silicone coupler back on the turbo - intercooler pipe after it slipped off due to it being covered in oil. I cleaned up the pipe, and silicone boot with brake cleaner to remove all the oil and start with a clean surface. I put it back in tightened everything up and went out for a drive. After WOT I would upshift to the next gear and the exhaust would let out a huge cloud of white smoke stinkin of burning oil. The third time I boosted the car the silicone coupler blew off again!!!!!!!!!
It must be covered in oil again. That's how much the turbo seal is leaking. I'm so f*ckin pissed off !!!! I wouid venture a guess that this turbo was never rebuilt and is the exact samer turbo returned to me as it was sent to them... with the leaking seal. How else would you exlain a turbo going bad with 150mi on it. I'm so sick of this car. I wish I kept it stock. Since modifying it it has never run right, and it has not been from the lack of money I have thrown at it. Money was never an issue. So even with all that money thrown at this it's still a mess. Anyone thinking of going FI.... this is a very real possibility. I have over $35,000 in clutches, a forged motor and this turbo kit.
JET
take it easy bro.... effort eventually pays off....i am sure as it has been said, by ed and miaP, they wioll take care of you... i am sure you will be able to trade this for a newer turbo. dont give up yet, =] you know you got a lot of support from us here on the boards
11-09-2006, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by taurran
Well, looking at this from a logical standpoint, there is a reason why everything happens. I don't see how seals would just "happen" to fail 3x on the same car just by chance. There has to be a logical reason for it.
My first guess was the tapped oil pan. My next guesses would be the oil used or an issue with the install. Perhaps using high viscosity oil with the tapped pan is enough to do the seals in. I know that traditionally, turbo owners have suggested using dino oil for the first xxxx miles or so, then switching to synthetic. Another thing - what brand of oil are you using?
Martin over at XAT Racing here in Tampa (that has A LOT of experience with turbocharged cars, mostly nissans) recommended that I stay away from Amsoil and he recommended Mobil 1. He stated that he's had more blown seals with Amsoil and has never had an issue with Mobil 1 full syntetic. I'm not sure, but I trust his recommendation more than anyone on these forums.
I know that far more people have perfecly functioning turbos than are having these issues. It would believe me to believe there may be a common factor that is the root of the issue. We just need to find out what that is...
My first guess was the tapped oil pan. My next guesses would be the oil used or an issue with the install. Perhaps using high viscosity oil with the tapped pan is enough to do the seals in. I know that traditionally, turbo owners have suggested using dino oil for the first xxxx miles or so, then switching to synthetic. Another thing - what brand of oil are you using?
Martin over at XAT Racing here in Tampa (that has A LOT of experience with turbocharged cars, mostly nissans) recommended that I stay away from Amsoil and he recommended Mobil 1. He stated that he's had more blown seals with Amsoil and has never had an issue with Mobil 1 full syntetic. I'm not sure, but I trust his recommendation more than anyone on these forums.
I know that far more people have perfecly functioning turbos than are having these issues. It would believe me to believe there may be a common factor that is the root of the issue. We just need to find out what that is...
Martin over at XAT Racing here in Tampa (that has A LOT of experience with turbocharged cars, mostly nissans) recommended that I stay away from Amsoil and he recommended Mobil 1. He stated that he's had more blown seals with Amsoil and has never had an issue with Mobil 1 full syntetic. I'm not sure, but I trust his recommendation more than anyone on these forums.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Is that really a valid reason to decide between oils? if the oil causes a perfectly good seal to leak is it the seal or the oil?
if the seal was leaking in a car that uses Dino oil, the seal is bad
replace it thats all you ever hear. but in reality the true cause is burnt Dino oil inside the seal that causes the "wear ring" that develops over time, anyone ever buy a wear sleeve for crankshaft or harmonic balancer? Im sure any seal with proper sealing surface in a clean enviroment wont leak.
what actually causes oil seals to leak? and what is the expected life of oil seals? and what about those wear rings? how does that happen?
I mean c'mon if you have clean oil lubricating and conditioning the oil seals used and the material of the seal is in good condition how will that leak?
dirty oil is always the culprit. using true PAO based oils with no blend of petrolium will run inside an engine dramatically longer/hotter/cleaner than any type
of crude based oils.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyolefin
Synthetic oil years ago like 20 years ago were known to be PAO based oils
used from the turbine engine i/e Helicopters, Jets
Cant run any dino crude based oil in the turbine engine we all know that....
But Castrol can Advertise Full synthetic "Syntec" oil that is void of PAO base,
groupIII based oil at synthetic prices....
Mobil1 sued Castrol when Castrol announced they stopped using PAO base in the Syntec blend in 1994, Mobil1 lost based on the desicion made that the word Synthetic is a Marketing term.
so what your saying is AMSOIL causes oil leaks not Mobil1 full syntetic?
I didnt know this before
I learn something new everyday
11-09-2006, 04:50 PM
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Mobil 1 is no longer a full synthetic......you might want to research around. They're now using group III's as a base according to a bunch of tests.
Amsoil is better tahn mobil 1. Word is the german made castrol syntec (the 0w30) is excellent, as is pennzoil platinum. People still swear by Redline, and Motul is aesome as well
you should check out bobistheoilguy BTW, Just because Martin has a lot of turbo experience doesn't mean he knows a ton about oil. Also, SR's like running thick oil because SR's like spinning rod bearings with minor starvation, and SR's are what he specializes in
Amsoil is better tahn mobil 1. Word is the german made castrol syntec (the 0w30) is excellent, as is pennzoil platinum. People still swear by Redline, and Motul is aesome as well
you should check out bobistheoilguy BTW, Just because Martin has a lot of turbo experience doesn't mean he knows a ton about oil. Also, SR's like running thick oil because SR's like spinning rod bearings with minor starvation, and SR's are what he specializes in
11-09-2006, 05:25 PM
#69
Amsoil is not better than Mobil 1 in refernce to base stock. Mobil 1 is a type IV oil. It is full PAO.
SOME Amsoils are type IV, and some are type III. Most fall into the type IV group.
SOME of the Amsoil blends add type V synthetic base stock to keep seals from leaking. As far as I know Mobil 1 uses Supersyn as a blend which is also believed to be a type V synthetic as well.
Most companies switched to type III base stock after the court ruling. Mobil was not one of them.
The German Castrol Syntec is a full type IV base stock, while the US blend is a full type III synthetic which isn't a true synthetic by US defenition. The US defenition of synthetic begins with type III and the German synthetic by defenition is type IV or higher. This was decided in US courts by Mobil vs. Castrol.
Type V is what is used in jet engine. Not type IV. Type V is an ester based synthetic.
JET
SOME Amsoils are type IV, and some are type III. Most fall into the type IV group.
SOME of the Amsoil blends add type V synthetic base stock to keep seals from leaking. As far as I know Mobil 1 uses Supersyn as a blend which is also believed to be a type V synthetic as well.
Most companies switched to type III base stock after the court ruling. Mobil was not one of them.
The German Castrol Syntec is a full type IV base stock, while the US blend is a full type III synthetic which isn't a true synthetic by US defenition. The US defenition of synthetic begins with type III and the German synthetic by defenition is type IV or higher. This was decided in US courts by Mobil vs. Castrol.
Type V is what is used in jet engine. Not type IV. Type V is an ester based synthetic.
JET
Last edited by JETPILOT; 11-09-2006 at 11:23 PM.
11-09-2006, 05:25 PM
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First of all, punctuation/sentence structure is your friend.
I didn't make that statement stating that Amsoil will cause blown seals, I stated in an attempt to find a common factor in the instances where we have seen blown seals on these turbos. The main factor was that tapped spacers were being used. Another point was brought up later about the oil return line being a factor. The one with the kit is a little flimsey and could easily kink compared to other slightly more expensive options out there.
The question about oil brand was more of an attempt to find that common thread amongst these issues. As far as my decision not to use Amsoil, it was based more on the fact that in my car it seems to burn off at an accelerated rate to other brands I've used. I'm sticking to Mobil 1 now but have considered switching to another brand but haven't seen conclusive evidence to thus far (although I've seen recent "tests" like mike posted).
It seems you believe that I was screaming "AMSOIL BLEW YOUR SEALS", which I think we can both agree would be rediculous, and I didn't mean to imply. So quit trying to "passively own" me by blowing my side note out of perportion and lets stick to the original topic (not that this thread hasn't already been beaten to death).
I didn't make that statement stating that Amsoil will cause blown seals, I stated in an attempt to find a common factor in the instances where we have seen blown seals on these turbos. The main factor was that tapped spacers were being used. Another point was brought up later about the oil return line being a factor. The one with the kit is a little flimsey and could easily kink compared to other slightly more expensive options out there.
The question about oil brand was more of an attempt to find that common thread amongst these issues. As far as my decision not to use Amsoil, it was based more on the fact that in my car it seems to burn off at an accelerated rate to other brands I've used. I'm sticking to Mobil 1 now but have considered switching to another brand but haven't seen conclusive evidence to thus far (although I've seen recent "tests" like mike posted).
It seems you believe that I was screaming "AMSOIL BLEW YOUR SEALS", which I think we can both agree would be rediculous, and I didn't mean to imply. So quit trying to "passively own" me by blowing my side note out of perportion and lets stick to the original topic (not that this thread hasn't already been beaten to death).
11-09-2006, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JETPILOT
Amsoil is not better than Mobil 1 in refernce to base stock. Mobil 1 is a type IV oil. It is full POA.
SOME Amsoils are type IV, and some are type III. Most fall into the type IV group.
SOME of the Amsoil blends add type V synthetic base stock to keep seals from leaking. As far as I know Mobil 1 uses Supersyn as a blend which is also believed to be a type V synthetic as well.
Most companies switched to type III base stock after ther uling. Mobil was not one of them.
The German Castrol Syntec is a full type IV base stock, while the US bleld is a full type III synthetic which isn't a true synthetic by US defenition. The US defenition of synthetic begins with type III and the German synthetic by defenition is type IV or higher. This was decided in US courts by Mobil vs. Castrol.
Type V is what is used in jet engine. Not type IV. TYpe V is an ester based synthetic.
JET
SOME Amsoils are type IV, and some are type III. Most fall into the type IV group.
SOME of the Amsoil blends add type V synthetic base stock to keep seals from leaking. As far as I know Mobil 1 uses Supersyn as a blend which is also believed to be a type V synthetic as well.
Most companies switched to type III base stock after ther uling. Mobil was not one of them.
The German Castrol Syntec is a full type IV base stock, while the US bleld is a full type III synthetic which isn't a true synthetic by US defenition. The US defenition of synthetic begins with type III and the German synthetic by defenition is type IV or higher. This was decided in US courts by Mobil vs. Castrol.
Type V is what is used in jet engine. Not type IV. TYpe V is an ester based synthetic.
JET
If you go to bob is the oil guy (google it) Mobil 1 is now running with group III bases. It's been test proven. So essentially, M1 is no longer a full synthetic as they have been advertising.
Redline, Pennzoil Platinum, Motul, and Castrol Syntec 0w30 (made in Germany) are all full syns using PAOs
11-09-2006, 05:36 PM
#74
Originally Posted by chimmike
If you go to bob is the oil guy (google it) Mobil 1 is now running with group III bases. It's been test proven. So essentially, M1 is no longer a full synthetic as they have been advertising.
Redline, Pennzoil Platinum, Motul, and Castrol Syntec 0w30 (made in Germany) are all full syns using PAOs
Redline, Pennzoil Platinum, Motul, and Castrol Syntec 0w30 (made in Germany) are all full syns using PAOs
JET
11-09-2006, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by chimmike
If you go to bob is the oil guy (google it) Mobil 1 is now running with group III bases. It's been test proven. So essentially, M1 is no longer a full synthetic as they have been advertising.
Redline, Pennzoil Platinum, Motul, and Castrol Syntec 0w30 (made in Germany) are all full syns using PAOs
Redline, Pennzoil Platinum, Motul, and Castrol Syntec 0w30 (made in Germany) are all full syns using PAOs
the oils you listed above are any certified by the "API" American Petrolium Institute?
if any are how can they be 100% synthetic?
11-09-2006, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by chimmike
Google bob is the oil guy and do some reading over there. Then you'll see 
Many Mobil1 oils are API certified and advertise Full Synthetic
11-09-2006, 06:29 PM
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Wow, I've learned more about oil in the last 3 minutes then I ever thought I could. Just for reference I'm attaching the Turbonetics TS-1 oil spec sheet to this post so you oil guys can analyze it. I'll also attach the oil analysis I had done on my car a while back after using Turbonetics TS-1
11-09-2006, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by taurran
First of all, punctuation/sentence structure is your friend.
I didn't make that statement stating that Amsoil will cause blown seals, I stated in an attempt to find a common factor in the instances where we have seen blown seals on these turbos. The main factor was that tapped spacers were being used. Another point was brought up later about the oil return line being a factor. The one with the kit is a little flimsey and could easily kink compared to other slightly more expensive options out there.
The question about oil brand was more of an attempt to find that common thread amongst these issues. As far as my decision not to use Amsoil, it was based more on the fact that in my car it seems to burn off at an accelerated rate to other brands I've used. I'm sticking to Mobil 1 now but have considered switching to another brand but haven't seen conclusive evidence to thus far (although I've seen recent "tests" like mike posted).
It seems you believe that I was screaming "AMSOIL BLEW YOUR SEALS", which I think we can both agree would be rediculous, and I didn't mean to imply. So quit trying to "passively own" me by blowing my side note out of perportion and lets stick to the original topic (not that this thread hasn't already been beaten to death).
I didn't make that statement stating that Amsoil will cause blown seals, I stated in an attempt to find a common factor in the instances where we have seen blown seals on these turbos. The main factor was that tapped spacers were being used. Another point was brought up later about the oil return line being a factor. The one with the kit is a little flimsey and could easily kink compared to other slightly more expensive options out there.
The question about oil brand was more of an attempt to find that common thread amongst these issues. As far as my decision not to use Amsoil, it was based more on the fact that in my car it seems to burn off at an accelerated rate to other brands I've used. I'm sticking to Mobil 1 now but have considered switching to another brand but haven't seen conclusive evidence to thus far (although I've seen recent "tests" like mike posted).
It seems you believe that I was screaming "AMSOIL BLEW YOUR SEALS", which I think we can both agree would be rediculous, and I didn't mean to imply. So quit trying to "passively own" me by blowing my side note out of perportion and lets stick to the original topic (not that this thread hasn't already been beaten to death).
The question about oil brand was more of an attempt to find that common thread amongst these issues. As far as my decision not to use Amsoil, it was based more on the fact that in my car it seems to burn off at an accelerated rate to other brands I've used. I'm sticking to Mobil 1 now but have considered switching to another brand but haven't seen conclusive evidence
==========================================================
the accelerated oil compsumption use with Amsoil is normal when you put
Amsoil inside an engine that has burnt crude oil on the sum of it's parts.
it normally takes a full 2 years to clean out a engine that used conventional oil previous to Amsoil, especially one that used dino oil for longer than 50,000 miles.
The initial fill and first 10,000 miles with Amsoil will clean the engine but will consume 2x the amount it did before, but in most cases not more than a gallon has to be used to clean the engine and have less oil compsumption
than with conventional crude oil.
Did you use the Amsoil engine cleaner previous to adding Amsoil?
it will help the cleaning process move along much faster than not using it.
Add cleaner, new oil filter, use the oil you have before the change, 20 minutes at high idle, Dump oil/filter. after that you add Amsoil and new filter, with this procedure most engines are clean after the first 25,000 miles using Amsoil.
my Yamaha 3.0 uses 1 QT oil every 12,000 miles, been using Amsoil from 70,000 /128,000 3 oil changes with 5w30 I just added my last quart left from the 5 gallons I bought 3 years ago
11-09-2006, 07:01 PM
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Hey just curious, Jet you keep mentioning that the smoke is white. I always remebered burnt oil being blue. Obviously you're problem is the seal since you've visually seen it but I was just wondering about it being white? If I remember correctly-
white=water
blue=oil
black=fuel
I don't know **** about mechanics so I may be way off with my thinking. Anyways, good luck in your future ventures. I blew 2 engines, 3 sets up turbos, 3 clutches, new set of heads and a few other things on my 90tt(no fault of my own). I feel your pain.
white=water
blue=oil
black=fuel
I don't know **** about mechanics so I may be way off with my thinking. Anyways, good luck in your future ventures. I blew 2 engines, 3 sets up turbos, 3 clutches, new set of heads and a few other things on my 90tt(no fault of my own). I feel your pain.