Injected Performance bringing in the first four digit dyno number: 1016rwhp DD
07-24-2007, 07:15 PM
#181
There's no point arguing about this guys - trying to match engineering formulas to real world experience can be a worthwhile exercise if everyone is open minded about where the disconnect lies.
For those of you who have the book on the shelf, pg 200 of "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell explains turbo selection and basically reiterates what Gurgen has tried to communicate in his posts. The graph I come up with looks different that yours Gurgen but I think I've got an error (working on it!).
If real world experience contradicts the mathematics, then there's a good reason for it. Just being stubborn and saying Gurgen is wrong isn't very helpful...
Now I think what you guys are saying is that you can work off of the efficiency island of the turbo (which might not make it optimally paired for the engine) but might allow you to make power beyond what might otherwise be possible if you can account for issues like backpressure, excessive temperature rise from the compressed air charge, cooling, detonation, etc. Is this correct?
The accomplishments in this thread are ground breaking and truly exciting - no question. There's also a lot for all of us to learn!
For those of you who have the book on the shelf, pg 200 of "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell explains turbo selection and basically reiterates what Gurgen has tried to communicate in his posts. The graph I come up with looks different that yours Gurgen but I think I've got an error (working on it!).
If real world experience contradicts the mathematics, then there's a good reason for it. Just being stubborn and saying Gurgen is wrong isn't very helpful...
Now I think what you guys are saying is that you can work off of the efficiency island of the turbo (which might not make it optimally paired for the engine) but might allow you to make power beyond what might otherwise be possible if you can account for issues like backpressure, excessive temperature rise from the compressed air charge, cooling, detonation, etc. Is this correct?
The accomplishments in this thread are ground breaking and truly exciting - no question. There's also a lot for all of us to learn!
07-24-2007, 07:33 PM
#184
Originally Posted by Joeschmoe
Just because you read alot on line doesen't mean **** FYI try getting dirty instead of pounding away at a keyboard all day 
Just because you read a couple tutorials about how to figure out engine flow, and plot it on a map is novice IMO. I'm not trying to sound like a dick
Just because you read a couple tutorials about how to figure out engine flow, and plot it on a map is novice IMO. I'm not trying to sound like a dick
EDIT: So you're actually from Intense Motorsports masquerading under a different name? So that you can get away with posts like this without hurting business? Poor form to say the least. I hope it's not true but an IP address match is pretty hard to refute. And QuickSilver, I wouldn't be too quick to call someone "padawan", when you're posting in support after every IP/Joeschmoe post... Back on topic: I'd really like to see the dyno with the RPMs and am very curious to identify the cause for the power drop off...
Last edited by rcdash; 07-24-2007 at 08:17 PM.
07-24-2007, 09:10 PM
#185
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Originally Posted by go-fast
almost 4 h.p. per cubic inch .....outstanding!!!!what is the glide set up?ultra-case? what did you choose for final drive ratio?a glide going down the track is an awesome emotion,with only one shift it lets you focus on driving and creates consistency.
07-24-2007, 09:26 PM
#186
Originally Posted by rcdash
Ummm, you're not trying? That was uncalled for. Too bad because it makes me question your credibility; and what I thought might have been some good insight into turbocharger selection.
EDIT: So you're actually from Intense Motorsports masquerading under a different name? So that you can get away with posts like this without hurting business? Poor form to say the least. I hope it's not true but an IP address match is pretty hard to refute. And QuickSilver, I wouldn't be too quick to call someone "padawan", when you're posting in support after every IP/Joeschmoe post... Back on topic: I'd really like to see the dyno with the RPMs and am very curious to identify the cause for the power drop off...
EDIT: So you're actually from Intense Motorsports masquerading under a different name? So that you can get away with posts like this without hurting business? Poor form to say the least. I hope it's not true but an IP address match is pretty hard to refute. And QuickSilver, I wouldn't be too quick to call someone "padawan", when you're posting in support after every IP/Joeschmoe post... Back on topic: I'd really like to see the dyno with the RPMs and am very curious to identify the cause for the power drop off...
Well Said, Hope this can come to an end now.
SAM
GT Motorsports
07-24-2007, 10:51 PM
#188
Originally Posted by rcdash
There's no point arguing about this guys - trying to match engineering formulas to real world experience can be a worthwhile exercise if everyone is open minded about where the disconnect lies.
For those of you who have the book on the shelf, pg 200 of "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell explains turbo selection and basically reiterates what Gurgen has tried to communicate in his posts. The graph I come up with looks different that yours Gurgen but I think I've got an error (working on it!).
If real world experience contradicts the mathematics, then there's a good reason for it. Just being stubborn and saying Gurgen is wrong isn't very helpful...
Now I think what you guys are saying is that you can work off of the efficiency island of the turbo (which might not make it optimally paired for the engine) but might allow you to make power beyond what might otherwise be possible if you can account for issues like backpressure, excessive temperature rise from the compressed air charge, cooling, detonation, etc. Is this correct?
The accomplishments in this thread are ground breaking and truly exciting - no question. There's also a lot for all of us to learn!
For those of you who have the book on the shelf, pg 200 of "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell explains turbo selection and basically reiterates what Gurgen has tried to communicate in his posts. The graph I come up with looks different that yours Gurgen but I think I've got an error (working on it!).
If real world experience contradicts the mathematics, then there's a good reason for it. Just being stubborn and saying Gurgen is wrong isn't very helpful...
Now I think what you guys are saying is that you can work off of the efficiency island of the turbo (which might not make it optimally paired for the engine) but might allow you to make power beyond what might otherwise be possible if you can account for issues like backpressure, excessive temperature rise from the compressed air charge, cooling, detonation, etc. Is this correct?
The accomplishments in this thread are ground breaking and truly exciting - no question. There's also a lot for all of us to learn!
Thanks very much for the support.. I know that there are lot of people listening, they tell me so personally via PMs, phone calls. That's the only reason I do do it.
As far as the graph, some of the other books, like Street Turbocharging (and the famous yet a bit more esoteric MacInnes book) have better flow (no pun intended) and explanations of the compressor math and their assocaited examples.
PM me if you need advise, etc...
Thanks! And let's just put this to rest.
07-25-2007, 12:51 AM
#190
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Hey guys I apologize for my reply, sometimes I can get ahead of myself. Gurgen you to as well, Injected's project is great and will be great to see progress as it comes together, I think it has one of the most potent setups on any Z car at the moment and will be exciting to watch run down the track 8s perhaps
Last edited by Joeschmoe; 07-25-2007 at 12:59 AM.
07-25-2007, 04:02 AM
#191
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Originally Posted by Hal@IP
Follow up from this thread
26-27psi, extremely conservative tune
Engine: Injected Performance BC 4.2L, Cosworth Heads, IP Cams, L19 Headstuds
Transmission: Powerglide
Turbo setup: Custom Injected Performance Single Turbo (GT47-88)
Management: Haltech Platinum PnP Standalone (coming soon!)
26-27psi, extremely conservative tune
Engine: Injected Performance BC 4.2L, Cosworth Heads, IP Cams, L19 Headstuds
Transmission: Powerglide
Turbo setup: Custom Injected Performance Single Turbo (GT47-88)
Management: Haltech Platinum PnP Standalone (coming soon!)
07-25-2007, 06:11 AM
#192
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Originally Posted by Sam@GTM
Well Said, Hope this can come to an end now.
SAM
GT Motorsports
SAM
GT Motorsports
every post did not had any shop vs shop situation, just 2 people guergen and joe until you brought it up though, thanks to the help of someone ovbiously... take some responsability... nobody involved you in that discussion
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-25-2007 at 09:45 AM.
07-25-2007, 06:12 AM
#193
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Originally Posted by rcdash
If real world experience contradicts the mathematics, then there's a good reason for it. Just being stubborn and saying Gurgen is wrong isn't very helpful...
Agreed.. the point was that this goeS BOTH WAYS!!! re read the thread and you will see who was being stubborn in the first place
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-25-2007 at 06:26 AM.
07-25-2007, 06:17 AM
#194
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
rcdash,
Thanks very much for the support.. I know that there are lot of people listening, they tell me so personally via PMs, phone calls. That's the only reason I do do it.
As far as the graph, some of the other books, like Street Turbocharging (and the famous yet a bit more esoteric MacInnes book) have better flow (no pun intended) and explanations of the compressor math and their assocaited examples.
PM me if you need advise, etc...
Thanks! And let's just put this to rest.
Thanks very much for the support.. I know that there are lot of people listening, they tell me so personally via PMs, phone calls. That's the only reason I do do it.
As far as the graph, some of the other books, like Street Turbocharging (and the famous yet a bit more esoteric MacInnes book) have better flow (no pun intended) and explanations of the compressor math and their assocaited examples.
PM me if you need advise, etc...
Thanks! And let's just put this to rest.
enough of this...
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-25-2007 at 06:33 AM.
07-25-2007, 06:23 AM
#195
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Originally Posted by Sam@GTM
Well Said, Hope this can come to an end now.
SAM
GT Motorsports
SAM
GT Motorsports
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-25-2007 at 09:53 AM.
07-25-2007, 06:56 AM
#196
Originally Posted by rcdash
I guess you'd only care if you want to understand how and why turbo selection can help you reach your desired goal. There's a lot of good information in this thread! If you don't care, why post? 
07-25-2007, 07:17 AM
#197
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Originally Posted by Vq.turbo.DremZ
The turbo information is golden, yes. Nor am i discounting how useful this thread will be for others, but to lose sleep (everything seems to be resolved now) because of a minor debate was my whole point...
werd
hopefully we see an update by injected here soon
07-25-2007, 08:57 AM
#198
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Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
every poste did not had any shop vs ship situation, just 2 people guergen and joe until you brought it up through thanks to the help of someone ovbiously... take some responsability... nobody involved you in that discussion
Its called a public forum.... Grammar > you
07-25-2007, 09:46 AM
#200
I think we can move past it. I know that IP is not really active on these forums.
That being said, I would not want anyone to be mislead by a given setup. IP has the full right not to post their full dyno, and perhaps they are still planning to. Yes, 1000whp is an achievement, but just like anything else, evaluation of true mastery of a setup must involve scrutiny, that's where I come from. And that involves the flow analysis and power/torque production over the entire RPM range. Vendors are here to make money on us, simple as that. The least we MUST do is scrutinize everything they say so that we can truly separate the VRT-type projects from truely incredible projects. Let's not make it easy on vendors to fool us, ok? That's where I am coming from. BTW, I was callign out VRT wayyyy before (months....) they were really exposed for not only their business practices but their technical incompetence... and I was right all along about them.
Let's just get on with our lives.
P.S. This was just a general example and the VRT-type comment does NOT in any way apply here to IP, does NOT!
That being said, I would not want anyone to be mislead by a given setup. IP has the full right not to post their full dyno, and perhaps they are still planning to. Yes, 1000whp is an achievement, but just like anything else, evaluation of true mastery of a setup must involve scrutiny, that's where I come from. And that involves the flow analysis and power/torque production over the entire RPM range. Vendors are here to make money on us, simple as that. The least we MUST do is scrutinize everything they say so that we can truly separate the VRT-type projects from truely incredible projects. Let's not make it easy on vendors to fool us, ok? That's where I am coming from. BTW, I was callign out VRT wayyyy before (months....) they were really exposed for not only their business practices but their technical incompetence... and I was right all along about them.
Let's just get on with our lives.
P.S. This was just a general example and the VRT-type comment does NOT in any way apply here to IP, does NOT!