My unenviable experience concerning BuiltZMotors
08-09-2007, 06:08 AM
#101
New Member
iTrader: (13)
Originally Posted by Gman2004
I am not taking side heres, but if remachining and $500 worth of parts is what it takes to make it right what is wrong with that? I don't believe any vendor that sells built motors would cover the labor cost to pull and reinstall a defective motor unless said vendor was doing the labor as well as the motor build.
6k wasnt just pulling the motor out, plust thats a cost that the customer is suppose to "eat" for something he wasnt at Fault??
so if ..lets say a a bad install of a 150$ oil pump screws a 7k engine that takes quit some money to inspect/diagnose... all that he is suppose to get is 150 back?
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 08-09-2007 at 06:15 AM.
08-09-2007, 06:24 AM
#102
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
making it right is a refund...considering the spend 6k in a repair bill, which you considered appropiate
Again I am not taking sides here and if I was in Joe's shoes I would want a refund if my motor went bad and after the fact I started getting pm's from others with the same situation. Regardless, if my only recourse was having Todd fix the defective motor I would take that, but hey it doesn't hurt to ask for the refund. The worst he can say is no.
I am on my 3rd motor (I blew my stock and a built) and have bounced from shop to shop in order to have the chitty work done on my car by previous shops (South Florida Racing and SGP) fixed so I definately know what the op is going through, but in this industry there usually aren't refunds. If you get the problem fixed consider yourself lucky.
That being said I think Todd's offer is fair although it might not be what Joe wants.
08-09-2007, 06:32 AM
#103
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
so if ..lets say a a bad install of a 150$ oil pump screws a 7k engine that takes quit some money to inspect/diagnose... all that he is suppose to get is 150 back?
08-09-2007, 06:41 AM
#104
New Member
iTrader: (13)
Originally Posted by Gman2004
and how do you determine it was a bad install of the oil pump that caused the engine failure? this industry doesn't work like that bud.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 08-09-2007 at 06:46 AM.
08-09-2007, 06:45 AM
#105
Originally Posted by Infinus
If you dont know the details of the situation stay out of it, don has been more than civil in this matter, withholding this from the boards for quite some time (hell if it was me I'da been *****ing day 1) Hes been very civil about it, dealing with it privately to what seems to be no result. Even in this post and his requests he is being more than accommodating in the matter, he didn't bash anyone and merely let us know the details.
I think everyone has a right to know what is going on especially if they already have or are about to spend a whole lot of money on something. I'm sure you might see things differently if you had a 13,000 dollar bill to look forward to due to no fault of your own. If a company is going to do something it better damn well be able to put up with the heat from its mistakes. We aren't here to protect anyones feelings, the fact of the matter is **** happened and now its time to do something about it. Either BZM can do nothing, or they can publicly admit to their mistakes, rectify the situation and clearly show that they have nothing to hide and stand behind their product and their work. Only a ***** hides from his mistakes, it takes a man to own up to them and face the consequences. If they do the right thing they have nothing to fear from the public.
I think everyone has a right to know what is going on especially if they already have or are about to spend a whole lot of money on something. I'm sure you might see things differently if you had a 13,000 dollar bill to look forward to due to no fault of your own. If a company is going to do something it better damn well be able to put up with the heat from its mistakes. We aren't here to protect anyones feelings, the fact of the matter is **** happened and now its time to do something about it. Either BZM can do nothing, or they can publicly admit to their mistakes, rectify the situation and clearly show that they have nothing to hide and stand behind their product and their work. Only a ***** hides from his mistakes, it takes a man to own up to them and face the consequences. If they do the right thing they have nothing to fear from the public.
) aren't there usually 3sides to every story? My only point was that the OP is in an unfortunate situation, and it really is a matter between the BZM and the OP. This matter will be rectified, and all will be fine (hopefully), but I am just concerned with how all these posters jump on any company who gets "accused" of bad work. You are correct that I don't know the full details here, as neither do the other posters. So, in telling me to stay out.....shouldn't you be telling everyone inclusing yourself to stay out of it?
08-09-2007, 06:47 AM
#106
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
sheeeez its just an example of a cheap part that can be overlooked at a install and cause an engine to fail..that why you go through a very deep and expensive check and tear down of the engine, which Don did to be sure what the fault really is, THE ENGINE as it was found, I know had he know the problem was really his fault, he would have admitted it. Thats why he waited all this time and try to resolve the situation bud
SGP didn't refund me my money when I had to pay another shop to fix their fuked up hack job on my car.
Last edited by Gman2004; 08-09-2007 at 06:50 AM.
08-09-2007, 06:50 AM
#107
New Member
iTrader: (13)
Originally Posted by QuadCam
you completely missed the point beacsue you are so fired up over this witch hunt. Do you really know all the details to this story? (maybe you do. ) aren't there usually 3sides to every story? My only point was that the OP is in an unfortunate situation, and it really is a matter between the BZM and the OP. This matter will be rectified, and all will be fine (hopefully), but I am just concerned with how all these posters jump on any company who gets "accused" of bad work. You are correct that I don't know the full details here, as neither do the other posters. So, in telling me to stay out.....shouldn't you be telling everyone inclusing yourself to stay out of it?
) aren't there usually 3sides to every story? My only point was that the OP is in an unfortunate situation, and it really is a matter between the BZM and the OP. This matter will be rectified, and all will be fine (hopefully), but I am just concerned with how all these posters jump on any company who gets "accused" of bad work. You are correct that I don't know the full details here, as neither do the other posters. So, in telling me to stay out.....shouldn't you be telling everyone inclusing yourself to stay out of it?
08-09-2007, 06:52 AM
#108
SFZCC
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Worth, FL
Posts: 7,419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only way to minimize such things is to get all of the work done in one shop, so if there is an issue with the engine or install they can work it out and take care of labour expenses or at least cut you a break, but when you have different shops you are not going to get breaks on work done to rectify or even redo work.
I had my sleeves installed by one machine shop and the rest of the work done by another machine shop, when I had to redo it due to a bad sleeve install the second shop charged me all over again when I took it back to get rechecked, balanced...... no breaks since he had no responsibility from the sleeve install
I had my sleeves installed by one machine shop and the rest of the work done by another machine shop, when I had to redo it due to a bad sleeve install the second shop charged me all over again when I took it back to get rechecked, balanced...... no breaks since he had no responsibility from the sleeve install
08-09-2007, 06:55 AM
#109
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
sheeeez its just an example of a cheap part that can be overlooked at a install and cause an engine to fail..that why you go through a very deep and expensive check and tear down of the engine, which Don did to be sure what the fault really is, THE ENGINE as it was found, I know had he know the problem was really his fault, he would have admitted it. Thats why he waited all this time and try to resolve the situation bud.
I don't know. I hope for both parties it's resolved... GOOD LUCK!!!
08-09-2007, 06:59 AM
#110
Originally Posted by westpak
The only way to minimize such things is to get all of the work done in one shop, so if there is an issue with the engine or install they can work it out and take care of labour expenses or at least cut you a break, but when you have different shops you are not going to get breaks on work done to rectify or even redo work.
I had my sleeves installed by one machine shop and the rest of the work done by another machine shop, when I had to redo it due to a bad sleeve install the second shop charged me all over again when I took it back to get rechecked, balanced...... no breaks since he had no responsibility from the sleeve install
I had my sleeves installed by one machine shop and the rest of the work done by another machine shop, when I had to redo it due to a bad sleeve install the second shop charged me all over again when I took it back to get rechecked, balanced...... no breaks since he had no responsibility from the sleeve install
08-09-2007, 07:02 AM
#111
Registered User
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,069
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said my friend.
Originally Posted by westpak
The only way to minimize such things is to get all of the work done in one shop, so if there is an issue with the engine or install they can work it out and take care of labour expenses or at least cut you a break, but when you have different shops you are not going to get breaks on work done to rectify or even redo work.
08-09-2007, 07:05 AM
#113
hi
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 2,056
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by westpak
The only way to minimize such things is to get all of the work done in one shop
08-09-2007, 07:07 AM
#114
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
AZ peeps were aware of the situation a while back and know the details, i cannot defend any other that jumped the gun with out knowing the details or knowing someone else directly that had the same problem...
08-09-2007, 07:10 AM
#116
New Member
iTrader: (13)
Originally Posted by Gman2004
Curious as to how the "AZ peeps" new the problem was caused by a defective motor before the motor was torn apart for an analysis.
the motor was torn apart and the as the finding came up we were updated.. OP already said this... we respected OPs wishes and keep quiet of the situation. We are a very close group locally and support each others on all matters almost like a family nd we hope Don gets what he deserves.
And i am not talking out of my *** as far as "standing behind work" means cause others shops have clearly states how they solved their problems no issues, Sorry it wasnt the case with you and you other engines. But i know you are in good hands with the next one
Did that suffice your curiosity?
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 08-09-2007 at 07:15 AM.
08-09-2007, 07:12 AM
#117
SFZCC
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Worth, FL
Posts: 7,419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jason333
I really agree with this. I suppose people have their reasons though.
People may be surprised at how this is working out but it is the norm for the industry, warranty in high performance is almost non existent and you are at the mercy of the shops and their integrity, none of the shops have the resources or pockets of a big manufacturer to be able to support warranties like they can, so if people want high performance and warranty they should by a car that comes from the factory with such performance.
08-09-2007, 07:42 AM
#118
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tims Ford Lake TN
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The one thing we should maybe consider is why are no engines dyno'd
on a stationary dyno to check EVERYTHING including hot valve lash,
leak downs, and overall condition of the motor BEFORE the expensive
install...or in some cases install..take back out (problems from build)
and reinstall again. I know this would include a large investment, but
would benefit builders as well as customers. This would to me be classified
as insurance and the owner could be on site during the dyno testing to
verify the engine is what you paid for. Almost all American car engine builders
do this on almost every motor built, and they are alot easier to pull one out
than something like the 350Z, but they still do it. Not just for the HP numbers,
but overall condition of a new motor. Anything that needs attention could be
done easily as everything is right in front of the builder and able to be worked
on, checked and verify correct oil pressure etc. Then put the motor in with
the assurance that it is running the way it is supposed too. This would have
saved alot of members the problems they encounter with builds that fail
and the resulting problems that we are seeing now.
on a stationary dyno to check EVERYTHING including hot valve lash,
leak downs, and overall condition of the motor BEFORE the expensive
install...or in some cases install..take back out (problems from build)
and reinstall again. I know this would include a large investment, but
would benefit builders as well as customers. This would to me be classified
as insurance and the owner could be on site during the dyno testing to
verify the engine is what you paid for. Almost all American car engine builders
do this on almost every motor built, and they are alot easier to pull one out
than something like the 350Z, but they still do it. Not just for the HP numbers,
but overall condition of a new motor. Anything that needs attention could be
done easily as everything is right in front of the builder and able to be worked
on, checked and verify correct oil pressure etc. Then put the motor in with
the assurance that it is running the way it is supposed too. This would have
saved alot of members the problems they encounter with builds that fail
and the resulting problems that we are seeing now.
08-09-2007, 07:44 AM
#119
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
the motor was torn apart and the as the finding came up we were updated.. OP already said this... we respected OPs wishes and keep quiet of the situation. We are a very close group locally and support each others on all matters almost like a family nd we hope Don gets what he deserves.
And i am not talking out of my *** as far as "standing behind work" means cause others shops have clearly states how they solved their problems no issues, Sorry it wasnt the case with you and you other engines. But i know you are in good hands with the next one
Did that suffice your curiosity?
And i am not talking out of my *** as far as "standing behind work" means cause others shops have clearly states how they solved their problems no issues, Sorry it wasnt the case with you and you other engines. But i know you are in good hands with the next one
Did that suffice your curiosity?
08-09-2007, 07:47 AM
#120
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 06Track
The one thing we should maybe consider is why are no engines dyno'd
on a stationary dyno to check EVERYTHING including hot valve lash,
leak downs, and overall condition of the motor BEFORE the expensive
install...or in some cases install..take back out (problems from build)
and reinstall again. I know this would include a large investment, but
would benefit builders as well as customers. This would to me be classified
as insurance and the owner could be on site during the dyno testing to
verify the engine is what you paid for. Almost all American car engine builders
do this on almost every motor built, and they are alot easier to pull one out
than something like the 350Z, but they still do it. Not just for the HP numbers,
but overall condition of a new motor. Anything that needs attention could be
done easily as everything is right in front of the builder and able to be worked
on, checked and verify correct oil pressure etc. Then put the motor in with
the assurance that it is running the way it is supposed too. This would have
saved alot of members the problems they encounter with builds that fail
and the resulting problems that we are seeing now.
on a stationary dyno to check EVERYTHING including hot valve lash,
leak downs, and overall condition of the motor BEFORE the expensive
install...or in some cases install..take back out (problems from build)
and reinstall again. I know this would include a large investment, but
would benefit builders as well as customers. This would to me be classified
as insurance and the owner could be on site during the dyno testing to
verify the engine is what you paid for. Almost all American car engine builders
do this on almost every motor built, and they are alot easier to pull one out
than something like the 350Z, but they still do it. Not just for the HP numbers,
but overall condition of a new motor. Anything that needs attention could be
done easily as everything is right in front of the builder and able to be worked
on, checked and verify correct oil pressure etc. Then put the motor in with
the assurance that it is running the way it is supposed too. This would have
saved alot of members the problems they encounter with builds that fail
and the resulting problems that we are seeing now.
Last edited by Gman2004; 08-09-2007 at 08:13 AM.