It's done! ~~MoTeC M800~~ running on my car *pics*videos*
09-25-2007, 07:14 PM
#1
It's done! ~~MoTeC M800~~ running on my car *pics*videos*
Hey Guys
Haven't been on the boards much, been busy in the garage...
But, yes, i indeed did it, from scratch.
Decided to go with the MoTeC following my long courtship with it's software...
Seriously, it's been a few months when I actually started to seriously play with the software, picking it apart to learn it. Not long after, I became amazed at the philosophy that is MoTeC, and their fresh and unmatched approach to engine management. The Version 3 (for the Mx00 series) was designed from the ground up to do whatever you desired.... But....about that later... And I am sure a few people on this board (Phunk) can chime in on it's capabilities.
Not sure where to start really... I guess I will start with the basics, and perhaps down the line talk about what makes this system truly special, and believe me, its true genius lies beyond the multitude of inputs, table sizes, etc...
Instead of regurgitating the specs, here is the link to the M800 brochure:
http://www.motec.com.au/pdf/M800.pdf
Here are some of the highlights:
- 24x40 fuel and 24x55 ignition (MAPxRPM) sites...more than enough
- in essentially EVERY table, user can choose the desired X and Y axes channels (over a hundred to choose from I am sure), as well as 8 custom user-definable channels
- countless compensations (BAP, EMAP, IAT, ECT, FTemp, FP, Gear, cranking, post-start, AND two additional user customizable tables with ANY X- and Y-axes)
- bank trims, individual cylinder trims (fuel AND ignition)
- injector timing adjustments (yes, injector timing, not ignition), more on this later...
- all trims and compensations can be 3D tables, NOT just 2D, so one can finally do away with bank-to-bank differences reliably and under all conditions (specifically, I have always wanted to tune out the high-vacuum/idle runner-robbing AFR inequalities at idle)
- all 14 analog and 4 digital inputs configurable with full filtering (1-50)
- 6 of the 14 analog inputs have a 1K pull up resistor, so one can plug in 2-wire resistor-based sensors (NTC-type temperature sensor) without a need for additional wiring/pull-up resistors
- digital inputs can be used to measure the input's frequency, period, and pulse... I am using the latter for Knock monitoring... more on this later..... should be pretty trick (and very inexpensive).
Also, MoTeC already has a VQ35 syncing setting, hence that part wasn't a problem, provided you get the right settings from your dealer and/or MoTeC USA.
My setup:
- MoTeC M820 (M800 with Advanced Functions option, the only way it's available in the US)
- Advanced Functions: Anti-Lag, Flat-shift, Launch Control, full Traction Control (the latter being the famous MoTeC TC functionality, truly something special).
- Cam Control Option
- Dual LC-1's for lambda input (and NO, you don't need to buy the lambda option (single or dual) to have lambda monitoring if you already have standalone controllers with analog outs).
Here is the genius of the system... basically everything works with NO CAVEATS, truly works, and works VERY WELL. The latter anyone would tell you, just going by MoTeC's reputation, but the integration of the whole product line is so universal, intuitive, and intricate, ALL communicating via CAN (so only 2 wires necessary to each separate device, should you choose to expand). Completely programmable CAN packets, telemetry, wireless telemetry... granted most/all features are extra, most are actually somewhat reasonable... Then again, you truly DO get what you pay for in this case.
My short-term plans:
- Tune the car
- Implement Cam Control
- Use MoTeC to control boost, hence getting rid of the EVC5 as well.
- Use MoTeC for primary logging, at least for the time being. All new units come with 8 hours of free logging, single wideband control.
- implement Launch control
- implement rotary dials/switches for boost control, traction control, map switching, etc.... (thinking of some pretty neat methods, we'll see what I will end up with, not real sure yet).
My long-term plans:
- Implement and fine-tune traction control
- Use Motec to control WI, fully map the system with closed-loop water injection control (more on this later)
- Implement IC water spray bar control or IC nitrous spray bar control
Here are some pics:
Some shots of the harness, the unit itself. What you see is the result of about 13 hours of work. I did not opt for the flying lead MoTeC harness, as I wanted to have only those wires that I would be using, and nothing more. Allows for a cleaner look IMHO. Also, the flying lead harness is $650!! The connectors/pins were $80... so that was a no brainer (however, it's certianly not for a non-hardcore-DIYer): With the flying lead harness, I would save about 3 hours of work.
Also, i made separate 4- and 12-pin breakout harnesses for all external connection, so that the harness can be easily unplugged and reworked if need be without much trouble. I used pretty decent (yet easy to work with)AMP(r) connectors, totally water-proof (not that they need to be, but still...) THe harness will be finished and dressed up when all is said and done and the car is in its final configuration.
The close-up of the knock-unit. Motec does not have any built-in knock functionality, acoording to them, because it can't be made to work as reliably as the rest of the system. But, it does have PLENTY of controls for external knock devices, pretty trick stuff.... more on that later.
The USB-CAN adapter...no more parallel port...
The car side of things... note the finishes 12-pin header for ALL the sensors.
The videos:
The first one is literally the first few minutes after I started the car...the map is wayyy off... but the car ran no problem. Also, the wideband sensors were jacked because of the leaded fuel I ran....so i got new sensors, got rid of the Lm-1, got a second LC-1...now it idles essentially perfectly larlgely untuned (just on closed loop).
The close-up of the screen, forgive the shakiness, I'll make a better video tomorrow.
I am sure there is a lot that I am forgetting... Will return with more soon...
Haven't been on the boards much, been busy in the garage...
But, yes, i indeed did it, from scratch.
Decided to go with the MoTeC following my long courtship with it's software...
Seriously, it's been a few months when I actually started to seriously play with the software, picking it apart to learn it. Not long after, I became amazed at the philosophy that is MoTeC, and their fresh and unmatched approach to engine management. The Version 3 (for the Mx00 series) was designed from the ground up to do whatever you desired.... But....about that later... And I am sure a few people on this board (Phunk) can chime in on it's capabilities.Not sure where to start really... I guess I will start with the basics, and perhaps down the line talk about what makes this system truly special, and believe me, its true genius lies beyond the multitude of inputs, table sizes, etc...
Instead of regurgitating the specs, here is the link to the M800 brochure:
http://www.motec.com.au/pdf/M800.pdf
Here are some of the highlights:
- 24x40 fuel and 24x55 ignition (MAPxRPM) sites...more than enough
- in essentially EVERY table, user can choose the desired X and Y axes channels (over a hundred to choose from I am sure), as well as 8 custom user-definable channels
- countless compensations (BAP, EMAP, IAT, ECT, FTemp, FP, Gear, cranking, post-start, AND two additional user customizable tables with ANY X- and Y-axes)
- bank trims, individual cylinder trims (fuel AND ignition)
- injector timing adjustments (yes, injector timing, not ignition), more on this later...
- all trims and compensations can be 3D tables, NOT just 2D, so one can finally do away with bank-to-bank differences reliably and under all conditions (specifically, I have always wanted to tune out the high-vacuum/idle runner-robbing AFR inequalities at idle)
- all 14 analog and 4 digital inputs configurable with full filtering (1-50)
- 6 of the 14 analog inputs have a 1K pull up resistor, so one can plug in 2-wire resistor-based sensors (NTC-type temperature sensor) without a need for additional wiring/pull-up resistors
- digital inputs can be used to measure the input's frequency, period, and pulse... I am using the latter for Knock monitoring... more on this later..... should be pretty trick (and very inexpensive).
Also, MoTeC already has a VQ35 syncing setting, hence that part wasn't a problem, provided you get the right settings from your dealer and/or MoTeC USA.
My setup:
- MoTeC M820 (M800 with Advanced Functions option, the only way it's available in the US)
- Advanced Functions: Anti-Lag, Flat-shift, Launch Control, full Traction Control (the latter being the famous MoTeC TC functionality, truly something special).
- Cam Control Option
- Dual LC-1's for lambda input (and NO, you don't need to buy the lambda option (single or dual) to have lambda monitoring if you already have standalone controllers with analog outs).
Here is the genius of the system... basically everything works with NO CAVEATS, truly works, and works VERY WELL. The latter anyone would tell you, just going by MoTeC's reputation, but the integration of the whole product line is so universal, intuitive, and intricate, ALL communicating via CAN (so only 2 wires necessary to each separate device, should you choose to expand). Completely programmable CAN packets, telemetry, wireless telemetry... granted most/all features are extra, most are actually somewhat reasonable... Then again, you truly DO get what you pay for in this case.
My short-term plans:
- Tune the car
- Implement Cam Control
- Use MoTeC to control boost, hence getting rid of the EVC5 as well.
- Use MoTeC for primary logging, at least for the time being. All new units come with 8 hours of free logging, single wideband control.
- implement Launch control
- implement rotary dials/switches for boost control, traction control, map switching, etc.... (thinking of some pretty neat methods, we'll see what I will end up with, not real sure yet).
My long-term plans:
- Implement and fine-tune traction control
- Use Motec to control WI, fully map the system with closed-loop water injection control (more on this later)
- Implement IC water spray bar control or IC nitrous spray bar control
Here are some pics:
Some shots of the harness, the unit itself. What you see is the result of about 13 hours of work. I did not opt for the flying lead MoTeC harness, as I wanted to have only those wires that I would be using, and nothing more. Allows for a cleaner look IMHO. Also, the flying lead harness is $650!! The connectors/pins were $80... so that was a no brainer (however, it's certianly not for a non-hardcore-DIYer): With the flying lead harness, I would save about 3 hours of work.
Also, i made separate 4- and 12-pin breakout harnesses for all external connection, so that the harness can be easily unplugged and reworked if need be without much trouble. I used pretty decent (yet easy to work with)AMP(r) connectors, totally water-proof (not that they need to be, but still...) THe harness will be finished and dressed up when all is said and done and the car is in its final configuration.
The close-up of the knock-unit. Motec does not have any built-in knock functionality, acoording to them, because it can't be made to work as reliably as the rest of the system. But, it does have PLENTY of controls for external knock devices, pretty trick stuff.... more on that later.
The USB-CAN adapter...no more parallel port...
The car side of things... note the finishes 12-pin header for ALL the sensors.
The videos:
The first one is literally the first few minutes after I started the car...the map is wayyy off... but the car ran no problem. Also, the wideband sensors were jacked because of the leaded fuel I ran....so i got new sensors, got rid of the Lm-1, got a second LC-1...now it idles essentially perfectly larlgely untuned (just on closed loop).
The close-up of the screen, forgive the shakiness, I'll make a better video tomorrow.
I am sure there is a lot that I am forgetting... Will return with more soon...
09-25-2007, 07:20 PM
#3
"Not bad way to spend 10 thousand dollars" 
Nice work!! Looking forward to seeing your car fully tuned.. 
http://www.hp-f.com.au/product+detai...keywords=&pg=1
Nice work!! Looking forward to seeing your car fully tuned.. http://www.hp-f.com.au/product+detai...keywords=&pg=1
Last edited by Jay'Z; 09-25-2007 at 07:55 PM.
09-25-2007, 08:24 PM
#6
Here is some MoTeC pricing incase anyone is intrested in the system, we are a MoTeC dealer.
M400/600/800/880 ECU's
M880 ECU M880 5,500.00
M800 ECU M820 4,290.00
M600 ECU M600 3,350.00
M400 ECU M400 2,980.00
ECU Upgrades
Single Wideband Enable M880 1LA 710.00
Wideband Upgrade from single to dual M880 1-2LA 360.00
Dual Wideband Lambda M880 2LA 1,070.00
512k Logging (M400/600 Only) M880 512K LOG 190.00
1Mb Logging Memory M880 1MLOG 290.00
3Mb additional (M880 only) M880 4M LOG 760.00
10/12 Cyl Sequential Upgrade M880 10/12 EN 510.00
Pro Analysis Logging M880 PRO ANALYS 1,170.00
Servo Control M880 SERVO ENAB 300.00
Multi Spark Multi Pulse M880 MULTI PU 300.00
Telemetry Output M880 TELEM 910.00
Remote Logging M880 REM LOG 910.00
Cam Control M880 CAM 510.00
Drive By Wire M880 DBW EN 590.00
ECU Harnesses
M4 Basic Unterminated Harness 10' M4 H 10 378.00
M48 Basic Unterm Harness 10' M48 H 10 378.00
M800 Basic Unterm Harness 10' M800 H10 625.00
M4 Term Kit M4 TERM 70.00
M48 Term Kit M48 TERM 84.00
M800 Term Kit M800 TERM 105.00
There are a lot more sensors and items available but those are the basics. A "fully loaded" MoTeC setup will run in the $10,000 range installed and tuned.
Sam
GT Motorsports
M400/600/800/880 ECU's
M880 ECU M880 5,500.00
M800 ECU M820 4,290.00
M600 ECU M600 3,350.00
M400 ECU M400 2,980.00
ECU Upgrades
Single Wideband Enable M880 1LA 710.00
Wideband Upgrade from single to dual M880 1-2LA 360.00
Dual Wideband Lambda M880 2LA 1,070.00
512k Logging (M400/600 Only) M880 512K LOG 190.00
1Mb Logging Memory M880 1MLOG 290.00
3Mb additional (M880 only) M880 4M LOG 760.00
10/12 Cyl Sequential Upgrade M880 10/12 EN 510.00
Pro Analysis Logging M880 PRO ANALYS 1,170.00
Servo Control M880 SERVO ENAB 300.00
Multi Spark Multi Pulse M880 MULTI PU 300.00
Telemetry Output M880 TELEM 910.00
Remote Logging M880 REM LOG 910.00
Cam Control M880 CAM 510.00
Drive By Wire M880 DBW EN 590.00
ECU Harnesses
M4 Basic Unterminated Harness 10' M4 H 10 378.00
M48 Basic Unterm Harness 10' M48 H 10 378.00
M800 Basic Unterm Harness 10' M800 H10 625.00
M4 Term Kit M4 TERM 70.00
M48 Term Kit M48 TERM 84.00
M800 Term Kit M800 TERM 105.00
There are a lot more sensors and items available but those are the basics. A "fully loaded" MoTeC setup will run in the $10,000 range installed and tuned.
Sam
GT Motorsports
Trending Topics
09-26-2007, 12:04 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Jay'Z
"Not bad way to spend 10 thousand dollars" Nice work!! Looking forward to seeing your car fully tuned..
http://www.hp-f.com.au/product+detai...keywords=&pg=1
Nice work!! Looking forward to seeing your car fully tuned.. http://www.hp-f.com.au/product+detai...keywords=&pg=1
Thanks bro... it should be interesting, and educational. We'll see if my hours of preparation and study helps... nothign like breaking your cherry on tuning a real EMS. We'll see.
very cool, how many hours of work would you say this was?
However, I spent countless hours (labor of love though
) learnign the system, as I said. Probably good 40-50 hours spread over a couple of months. Now I feel comfortable with it, and it's getting more so by the hour.On cost... it's not unheard of to spend $10K on MoTeC, but that as you can see from above is not the case here. If you take advantage of every option in the MoTeC then you really do havea race car, in whcih case an experienced dealer/tuner that knows the system inside out will charge you that amount and you will pay it. That was not acceptable to me of course ($10K that is), and i decided to invest the time to learn to system to the highest extent possible, and go little by little and get to that level of tune, while getting an education in the matter....that was the deal for me. This is definitely not for everyone though, as you know, as most people just want to get the car. In fact unless you really study the system, you can't really appreciate the "work of art" that it is.
So for me, it was about $5000 for the M800 with the Active Cam control (advanced functions included in the US M800 i.e. M820), ~$100 for the terminal kit, ~$100 miscellaneous wiring/supplies, $260 AutoSport wiring harness, $80 GM 3-bar MAP sensor with terminal kit. Plus of course my time (14 hours actual wiring time), plus the time to learn the software. I alread had the dual widebands, EGT (using the Innovate AuxBox as thermocouple amplifier and barometric pressure sensor).
Not counting the latter, and the time, my grand total is $5540. I will be doing the tuning myself, so not counting that either.
More on that later, surely....
Last edited by GurgenPB; 09-26-2007 at 12:12 AM.
09-26-2007, 05:06 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by Sam@GTM
Here is some MoTeC pricing incase anyone is intrested in the system, we are a MoTeC dealer.
M400/600/800/880 ECU's
M880 ECU M880 5,500.00
M800 ECU M820 4,290.00
M600 ECU M600 3,350.00
M400 ECU M400 2,980.00
ECU Upgrades
Single Wideband Enable M880 1LA 710.00
Wideband Upgrade from single to dual M880 1-2LA 360.00
Dual Wideband Lambda M880 2LA 1,070.00
512k Logging (M400/600 Only) M880 512K LOG 190.00
1Mb Logging Memory M880 1MLOG 290.00
3Mb additional (M880 only) M880 4M LOG 760.00
10/12 Cyl Sequential Upgrade M880 10/12 EN 510.00
Pro Analysis Logging M880 PRO ANALYS 1,170.00
Servo Control M880 SERVO ENAB 300.00
Multi Spark Multi Pulse M880 MULTI PU 300.00
Telemetry Output M880 TELEM 910.00
Remote Logging M880 REM LOG 910.00
Cam Control M880 CAM 510.00
Drive By Wire M880 DBW EN 590.00
ECU Harnesses
M4 Basic Unterminated Harness 10' M4 H 10 378.00
M48 Basic Unterm Harness 10' M48 H 10 378.00
M800 Basic Unterm Harness 10' M800 H10 625.00
M4 Term Kit M4 TERM 70.00
M48 Term Kit M48 TERM 84.00
M800 Term Kit M800 TERM 105.00
There are a lot more sensors and items available but those are the basics. A "fully loaded" MoTeC setup will run in the $10,000 range installed and tuned.
Sam
GT Motorsports
M400/600/800/880 ECU's
M880 ECU M880 5,500.00
M800 ECU M820 4,290.00
M600 ECU M600 3,350.00
M400 ECU M400 2,980.00
ECU Upgrades
Single Wideband Enable M880 1LA 710.00
Wideband Upgrade from single to dual M880 1-2LA 360.00
Dual Wideband Lambda M880 2LA 1,070.00
512k Logging (M400/600 Only) M880 512K LOG 190.00
1Mb Logging Memory M880 1MLOG 290.00
3Mb additional (M880 only) M880 4M LOG 760.00
10/12 Cyl Sequential Upgrade M880 10/12 EN 510.00
Pro Analysis Logging M880 PRO ANALYS 1,170.00
Servo Control M880 SERVO ENAB 300.00
Multi Spark Multi Pulse M880 MULTI PU 300.00
Telemetry Output M880 TELEM 910.00
Remote Logging M880 REM LOG 910.00
Cam Control M880 CAM 510.00
Drive By Wire M880 DBW EN 590.00
ECU Harnesses
M4 Basic Unterminated Harness 10' M4 H 10 378.00
M48 Basic Unterm Harness 10' M48 H 10 378.00
M800 Basic Unterm Harness 10' M800 H10 625.00
M4 Term Kit M4 TERM 70.00
M48 Term Kit M48 TERM 84.00
M800 Term Kit M800 TERM 105.00
There are a lot more sensors and items available but those are the basics. A "fully loaded" MoTeC setup will run in the $10,000 range installed and tuned.
Sam
GT Motorsports
Ill stick with Vpro.
09-26-2007, 09:42 AM
#19
Originally Posted by turismo
How does this compare with the Vpro? Are the maps larger?
09-26-2007, 10:19 AM
#20
Good job...keep us posted on the tuning. MoTec is the premier professional grade EMS out there...nice work. GTM and FP are both Motec trained, so there will certainly be a few more select customers running this EMS.
When are you planning on tuning it on the dyno?
GTM and FP are both Motec trained, so there will certainly be a few more select customers running this EMS.When are you planning on tuning it on the dyno?