Driven1

iTrader: (2)

I see where you're coming from XKR. I just assigned those rough percentages based off what happened in BOTH failures and the overall likelihood based off the way a motor functions and operates. Both failures exhibited low oil pressure. The likelihood off low oil pressure being the result of something tuning related is pretty slim...thats really all Im trying to point out and I don't see any way around that honestly. I don't think it would be fair to Dave either for him to assume risk and come out of pocket more than he already has given his overall involvement in the actual build of the car. He's already troubleshot the rag incident and not been reimbursed...and now has offered his block to him? Now...If there was coolant everywhere and a rod coming out the side of the block....well...the percentages would naturally be flipped and more liability would be put back on the tuner.

Im trying to look at this from all sides...but to me...there is clearly a more liable party at this point and that would be the one who was the primary builder of the car and IMO the one who should be stepping up for the customer in every way possible and leading the discussions here...which simply has not happened.

There may be underlying issues here with doing that...and that's fine...but discussions need to be had and everything needs to be laid out for all parties to understand.

I will break the news though...after taking a spin in Alberto's monster...I don't think the part out is gonna happen. lol

XKR

iTrader: (1)

I once again agree that Dave should not have been the one to front that motor.... Issues that would have proven Dave at fault has not been seen so far.

I know the least of anyone on here... So I ask ... And what has been told to me puts one shop in the clear... Totally in the clear. But there is 2 things I want to see... Chris driving his car soon and the tear down done in the proper way to protect the non guilty party.

In my honest opinion... (As Dr Philithy once said).... All shops makes mistakes... But it's how they conduct themselves after that that defines them..

So it does not matter to me that there was a F-up... It's how the customer is treated after that will make or break the shop on this website. Dave has already proven to me that he is a class act and a shop I could truly support.

No nuthugging here... You all know I have never met or spoken to Dave.... I am just speaking on his actions.

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

OK guys, lets take a break for a minute. We all know where everybody stands here in terms of theories of who is liable. I finally spoke with Frank this morning and some progress is being made. He will contact Dave today and the shops will agree what shop will remove the motor and when, all shops will have the inviation to be present when the motor is removed and fluids will stay in the motor and coolant samples collected per my request.

I also spoke with Jim Justice this morning, he has agreed to head up the tear down at a specified time with all parties involved being present. He will have other experienced builders from his shop present to help verify results and hopefully identify the source of the failure. I will request that Dave provide the info from my dyno pulls and any/all data logs from the tuning sessions so they can be reviewed by Franz at Justice since he is familiar with the ViPEC and is the tuner at Justice Racing.

I am leaving as many of the details as possible up to the shops involved so I can remain out of the equation, I only want to make sure that as many things as possible take place in front of both parties so there are never any whispers or suspicions as to someone doing anything inappropriate.

Yesterday was great fun, probably the most I have had at a meet ever, but I am somewhat blunted back to reality today by having to deal with my situation and walk the tightrope of remaining impartial and trying not to constantly wonder about where I go from here.

I say again that my greatest fear is that teardown will reveal some never before seen chain of events that is attributable to no single issue and I am left right where I am now, wondering what happened and how I will be taken care of. I also consulted with my business atty this morning to make him aware of my situation and get advice of any steps I need to take to cover myself should this all go horribly wrong. I don't expect that to happen, but I don't want to be ill prepared either.

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

Just to address this issue quickly: The teardown must happen first, not to find fault so much as to figure out what has been damaged. The last time the motor failed I lost just about every component that has oil flowing through it due to bearing pieces scaring the surfaces. If this is the case again, I would need several components prior to being able to be back on the road.

Also, I am not sure how I would feel about having the surfaces re-machined to use the same block/heads, I gave up my stock block to have a very tight motor and do not want anything that is loose or out of the optimum range in terms of clearences. I will leave that determination up to the experts though.

The ride in Alberto's car was incredible and initially made me very happy, but today it almost makes me sad to see that I would have had something similar and never got the opportunity to enjoy it.

Glex25

iTrader: (11)

I have tried not to post in here since the news about what happened with the second motor but man I feel for you. I don't even know what to say that hasn't been said already.

2 different motors down

How many motors will it take to get you on the road

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Make sure you send the oil to Blackstone-it COULD help in telling the tale of what happened to the bottom end.

XKR

iTrader: (1)

+100000


Once again....No matter whats found...someone is at fault...NOT YOU !!!....The good thing in all this is...the car was never turned over to you....the motor did not blow in your hands. Not saying that if the motor had blown when you drove it that it would make a difference....I am just saying there should be less of a delay in having the car fixed because it removes one extra person to point a finger at.

thefireboy

its good to here that progress is being made

jpc350

IIRC, Frank also has a sample of the oil following this re-build..(Drain and re-fill).Could help in the post morten analysis..

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

Being done for certain.

Comfirmed this morning that this is indeed the case. That sample will be sent as well.

I thank you for your support. Apparently it will take at least 4 motors, don't forget the built block I started with that was trashed before I even put it in the car.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Chris, I think it's great that you're having Justice do the tear down.

ToastZ

iTrader: (2)

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000

I will also add that the oil filter should be cut open and inspected (there is a special pipe/can cutting tool for this I'm told).

bb1314

iTrader: (62)

Glad to hear a ride in Alberto's car convinced you to keep the car Chris! I'm too afraid to ride in his car. 1 - I don't do well in roller coasters. 2 - I'll ditch my procharger and spend thousands of dollars on twin turbo and build motor afterward

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

1. The door handle on the passenger door in his car is loose from people holding on for dear life.

2. Too late for me on this, but that is exactly how I got started down this road.

The speed in his car is so sneaky, its almost like a sportbike, lots of noises and g-forces pulling you back and then you peek at the speedo and its already in triple digits. I don't think we even saw 4th gear

I should have skipped taking my son to Disney and just strapped him in for a ride with Alberto instead , better than any ride down there.

spddmn124

iTrader: (2)

like this one??

http://www.cancutter.com/

Chomorro

iTrader: (17)

I have read this whole thread and all i can say is Wow...... I am glad your not hitting up weekly therapy sessions after all this crap.

I am rebuilding my motor this summer but all of this has me scurred, thinking of scrapping the 350 for honda LOL. I just want a mild build with 400whp but i definitely cant afford to go through motors like this.

Good luck to you sir, the new motor will not cost you a dime more and you will finally drive the car of your dreams

thom000001

Holy crap.....I could do it for you for $25 lol

IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

PUSSIFICATION is NOT the lesson you should take from this.


more like when you deal with lots of mods, power goals, you want to have 1 shop do the work. For your goals ~450-480whp....i think you should feel fine... a simpler basic bottom end should do the trick.

ToastZ

iTrader: (2)

Sounds similar to experinces at ZdayZ this year,... any of the following scenario's (in no particular order of thrill setting, all were fun) :

1. Sharif's GTR with Sharif driving in the canyons
2. Luie's M3 with either Mike (XKR) or Luie (Eagletanggreen) driving the car
3. Joe (Jkenific) leaving the photo shoot at the bottom of Fontana Dam (in Third Gear no less)

go-fast

update?