ToastZ

iTrader: (2)

I think Cass also stated that Justice told Frank he should build Cass a new motor.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

thefirechick?

thefireboy

i was waiting for you to say something about my nut hugging reiterations that are ever so important that people like to read right over..
Sure XKR you are absolutely right pics do say thousands of words. but facts are facts and we all now them.. i guess we will just have to wait and see... i hope both dave and frank get what they deserve and pay what they have to pay and hopefully everybody that is involved in this build and in this thread learned from other peoples mistakes.. and the fact that nobody is perfect no matter how good the engine builder is or how good the tuner is mistakes happen point blank.
and any of you for one min. think that a engine build is going to warrenty a racing engine 100% such as chris's after it leave the shop and in the hands of a tuner you are are crazy. the builder is going to warrenty his workmanship. period. please show me on any reciept where a built engine is covered 100% from any engine builder after it leaves his shop in running order on the final bill...
the deal with the rag frank owned up to it. offer to pay the cost and anything that was damaged AT THAT TIME. dave said that everything was ok and continued tuning the car.. WHOSE FAULT IS THAT???
at that time dave took responsibility for anything after that being with his knowledge and experience in the feild..
as stated by frank dave did minnimum communication during all events of this car.. both with the rag incident and with the low oil pressure incident..
frank found out about both incidents from the car owner..

sorry if you think i am a nut hugger, i am just pointing out the facts that i see that nobody else cares to recognize or pay attention to. and if you are you sure are not doing it here in this thread..
bash me all you want call me all the names you want it does not hide the facts.
take it to court, in front of a jury, let the best man win... i hope who evers fault it is they get stuck and get stuck hard...

failsafe306

iTrader: (38)

I'm just now getting into this thread I apologize if this has already been covered but, were pieces of the chewed up rag found anywhere in the motor? Wouldn't be surprised if pieces of it ended up inside oil passages, causing major clogs.

thefireboy

i would like to see the answer to that question if jim was on the stand..

thefireboy

nope they were not.. rag has been ruled out of the cause of the motor failure..

failsafe306

iTrader: (38)

ah, thanks

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

You are the only one stating this and I don't consider you a reliable source of information at this point.

Hell... I think it is a FAWKING joke to refer to the teardown and inspection by Justice as being done by an independent 3rd party. They machined and spec'd the block. They are hardly an independent or impartional 3rd party in this. The motor should have been torn down and inspected by someone who wasn't involved in the build.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Could Franks cam seals or chris's covers have played a part the first go around? I doubt it.

Could Frank's rag have played a part on this last go around? Possibly.

Could it be possible that Dave boiled the oil both times? ....

Let the courts decide. Good luck Chris.

XKR

iTrader: (1)

Ohhh Noooo ...

Well I hope everyone learns from this...I am just sorry that Chris had to be the one teaching this.....If anyone after this has their FI build done at more than one shop.....keep it to yourselves.....This has been talked about 3 million times......I have read tons of stories about this kind of fail......If one shop was involved in this.....well you know!!!!


Dave and Frank....if you read this.....do the right thing and cover half each......it will go a long way to save your names on here.....Dave ...you have more to lose than Frank....Before all this...I did not know anything about Hills Garage......But FT.....you have a good name.....

The few thousand it will cost now is better than the many thousands you could lose later...not to mention what could happen to your names on here. I am sure you all know that this Website has long arms.....Please do the right thing......

matt240sx

iTrader: (2)

Unless every oil passage in the car was checked out I cannot rule out the rag. Didn't someone say the oil looked clean after the 2nd engine failure? Who's to say the oil was not changed out after the damage and bye bye rag evidence??? As chewed up as the rag was small pieces could be anywhere in that engine. All it takes is just a short blockage under heavy load to kill a bearing, then the rag chunk could pop out. Was the oil filter cut open and checked? After 2nd build good oil pressure at first....Rag gets sucked in....low to no oil pressure I've also known cars that had overly aggressive timing wipe out a bearing. The super high cyl. pressure is too much load for the bearing. But this was on stock FI cars not a built engine so I can't see that especially with ACL bearings. Just my thoughts

thefireboy

That's fine You don't have to. The lawyers I'm surE will do all of this and figure it out. AnD I am suRe communication will bE much better then

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

Just stop already.

Jim proposed it to Frank in front of Chris. Chris told me via IM. Were you at the teardown?

go-fast

if shops involved considered this problem a moral obligation instead of a financial obligation they would have had cass back on the road already and might have saved their own hides in the process......instead they choose to hit the self destruct button.

penny wise,pound foolish

the high level of fail in this community is astounding,shops that would not survive outside this vq bubble thrive as "supershops" while so much time is spent on broke *** bottom feeders,wannabe's and thieves....this place is bizarro world (and the reason i stick around )

this whole platform is broken,with a few exceptions (very few)







go-fast is still waiting for the blueprint,for such a costly build there must be one......right?

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

Sh*t that flies here in the VQ community would get laughed at and marginalized by the Supra guys. It's like watching high school J.V. football vs NCAA Division 1.

Any halfway decent 2JZ shop can break 1,000whp and the shops with 2JZ experience that transitioned to the VQ platform achieved 1,000whp on their first attempts. Yet all the VQ bubble shops combined have struggled and failed for years to produce a single 1,000whp car up to this point. And look at this EPIC FAIL between Hills and FT to attempt to produce their first 700whp VQ. It's truly pathetic and frustrating. The VQ community is it's own worst enemy and is holding itself back.

abui01

iTrader: (68)

Just because Justice Racing said, "The motor failed due to oil starvation" doesn't mean that it's the singular cause of failure. Something made the oil starve... and there can be only be a certain amount of possibilities. How thorough was the tear-down? Like RudeG stated, someone besides those three shops need to inspect that motor.

From my past experience, a friend of mine did not secure his water bypass filter on his cold-air intake... it eventually got sucked up into the intake manifold, got chewed up, and ultimately caused the motor to blow... not to say the rag did the same, but there are other possibilities that may be overlooked.

XKR

iTrader: (1)

I agree....there is going to be more than money to lose here....I hope all involved will see this in time...

nyqueenz

iTrader: (2)

thought OJ bet that case yo?

GreenGoblin

iTrader: (6)

That is the truth.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

"Oil starvation" evidence can come in many forms. Not just simple lack of flow or blockage.

That's why i am REALLY CURIOUS to know the results of the final oil analysis. If blackstone results show oil looks like it was in use for 15k miles when it was driven only 500, that could be very telling regardless of what's floating around in it.

I can't believe people are saying the UOE will be useless... is the oil burnt beyond it's usefulness? Could that explain the bearing failures perhaps??

Also, inspection of the oil filter -- if there are no rag chunks in the filter, I highly doubt there is enough material to clog critical passages...