My Build: The Good, The Bad & The Progress
07-25-2009, 11:50 AM
#1822
]I'm totally offended by your response. First my one and only priority is to get Chris, my customer taken care of. It has nothing to do with money or lawsuits or anything. It has to do with DOING THE RIGHT THING. Apparently that's not something you're in touch with.
Although this comment is directed at you its important that everyone that modifies their vehicle should understand. There are NO laws or legal boundaries setup for CUSTOM high-performance modifications. Legally they refer to this as lack of precedence. In actuality there are only laws telling us we shouldn't do what we love (which sucks). I told Chris this on the phone and have no problem saying it here. He can go ahead and pursue me in court. I said I will not even bring a lawyer. I already know what the outcome will be.
The point of that statement is I will make sure Chris is taken care of because I am an ethical and a responsible business owner. Neither Frank or I can determine who is at fault. If no one feels at fault then its everyone's responsibility. Obviously Chris isn't so Frank and I and Jim at Justice Racing have stepped up to the plate. Apparently you aren't aware of the 100's of other shops that would do nothing. Literally nothing! To the extent of telling the customer with a broken car to take it to another shop.
Although this comment is directed at you its important that everyone that modifies their vehicle should understand. There are NO laws or legal boundaries setup for CUSTOM high-performance modifications. Legally they refer to this as lack of precedence. In actuality there are only laws telling us we shouldn't do what we love (which sucks). I told Chris this on the phone and have no problem saying it here. He can go ahead and pursue me in court. I said I will not even bring a lawyer. I already know what the outcome will be.
The point of that statement is I will make sure Chris is taken care of because I am an ethical and a responsible business owner. Neither Frank or I can determine who is at fault. If no one feels at fault then its everyone's responsibility. Obviously Chris isn't so Frank and I and Jim at Justice Racing have stepped up to the plate. Apparently you aren't aware of the 100's of other shops that would do nothing. Literally nothing! To the extent of telling the customer with a broken car to take it to another shop.
NOTE: I’m not an attorney but I just so happen to have one sitting right beside me while I’m typing this. His job is to check my spelling and to apparently poke fun at me for wasting my time explaining anything on this forum. So if I start using big words please note that they probably aren’t mine. Thanks and sorry.
Dave, I first wanted to say that I personally though very highly of you since stepping up to and offering to take care of Chris from day one. Your business ethics and sincere devotion to taking care of your customers is nothing less than outstanding. I would personally feel safe and secure as your customer leaving any vehicle in your shops professional hands. I truly believe that really.
I feel like I should correct you regarding some of your statements on the legality in this particular situation. You are very correct in stating that “There are FEW (had to correct this because there are indeed a few) laws or legal boundaries setup for CUSTOM high-performance modifications” but you are very correct that most of those laws are set to prohibit such modifications. In this particular situation a “good attorney” could take that harder road and battle against the actual lack of legal precedence and win at a 60 -70 percent success rate but it’s a long hard and ugly road or take the easy route and present a case of professional incompetence and neglect which would have been very easy to prove in the case of Hill’s shop. In fact the incident regarding the infamous “Rag” would have been so easy to win that case would have been over before lunch with time enough to play 9 holes before going back into the court to joke about the case some more. (NOT MY WORDS)
Attorneys don’t go out of their way to fight cases with lack of legal precedence. Good attorneys know the law well enough to know how to win cases without conflicting with issues of legal precedence but on the off chance that it can’t be avoided it still sit better for them proving the case. “You can add to but never take from the rules.” Any judgment from any case can be referenced even from cases outside jurisdiction that may prove supportive in cases where no precedence has been set. I’m not going to go into explaining that as I’m pretty sure most of you can figure it out of your own.
Another fact of the matter is that (Going back to the infamous “Rag” now) most judges won’t know or care about the detail regarding the functions of how or why an engine works one way or the other and wont care to get that engulfed with the tuning process. All they’ll care about and be focused on the fact that a foreign object was neglectfully left inside the motor which did cause damage to even a single part which “Could” have cause other failures. Rule in favor of the plaintiff, case close, break for lunch. Anyone for golf? That’s about how it would go honestly.
“It is a fool that has himself as an attorney in court” (Again. Not my words) I’ve been asked to say that though you may feel that your case maybe clear cut in your eyes, NEVER assume you don’t need representation from professional counsel. Judges don’t like it. It’s doesn’t impress them. Just don’t do it. Fact is that judges started off as attorneys and by you walking in alone does nothing more than shout “I KNOW THE LAW BETTER THAN YOU!” The courtroom is somewhat like a member’s only club and you should always be accompanied by a member or be ABA.
The fact that the rest of the shops have now followed your lead is indeed impressive and I applaud all for taking great measures in customer service. The Mid-A needs good shops like yours.
I have to go now because my brother is getting annoying. You know how lawyers are.
Its amazing I was banned with no warning at all......
Sounds like you have been banned b4? Oh well.. Sorry for the loss Cass.. 
07-26-2009, 10:49 AM
#1830
So.... even though my summer isn't going quite how I planned I am attempting to make the best of it. I decided to have a spur of the moment mini-meet at my place yesterday so I could check out jtgli's newest mods and at least be around some fast cars for a bit. Black350z showed up as well with his new Z and I tried real hard to distract him long enough to steal his Volk's, but that was a fail.
We did manage to get my amp and sub box installed after a minor mishap with the radio bezel (thanks Jon), thnks to everyone for their help. A few of my friends with Vettes showed up and we decided to have some fun
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/JTGLI_697547.htm
We did manage to get my amp and sub box installed after a minor mishap with the radio bezel (thanks Jon), thnks to everyone for their help. A few of my friends with Vettes showed up and we decided to have some fun
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/JTGLI_697547.htm
what kind of powa is the Z putting down (500s?) I thought the SC vette would give him a better run and the 06 for that matter.
07-26-2009, 02:48 PM
#1835
I think jtgli is putting down around 475whp on a DJ. Way to represent how we do it here in PA Jon
. My car was expected to have almost 300+whp on the black Z...... someday.
07-26-2009, 04:57 PM
#1837
Registered User
WHAT???
C'mon chris, you mustn't have left 6th gear on the bike then.......
I personally have witnessed Paxton sc vipers with 800+ rwhp get spanked by any 03+ Litre bike until like 150mph.
Even on my 30psi tune i'm pretty sure I'd have nothing for a litre bike.
An R6 is a different story (I only need pump)........
that vette was having major probs if he can walk a R1 one day and not keep up with a 450rwhp z another. (seemed like the C6 was faster than the sc vette too)
Props to the Z though.
C'mon chris, you mustn't have left 6th gear on the bike then.......
I personally have witnessed Paxton sc vipers with 800+ rwhp get spanked by any 03+ Litre bike until like 150mph.
Even on my 30psi tune i'm pretty sure I'd have nothing for a litre bike.
An R6 is a different story (I only need pump)........
that vette was having major probs if he can walk a R1 one day and not keep up with a 450rwhp z another. (seemed like the C6 was faster than the sc vette too)
Props to the Z though.
Maybe better drivers in the corvettes make a difference a bit, but the races weren't even close. The excuses were standard, all about gears and top end "I would have caught up". I do know for a fact that the SC Vette has massive top end and he walked my R1 from 55 to 115mph.
I think jtgli is putting down around 475whp on a DJ. Way to represent how we do it here in PA Jon. My car was expected to have almost 300+whp on the black Z...... someday.
I think jtgli is putting down around 475whp on a DJ. Way to represent how we do it here in PA Jon
. My car was expected to have almost 300+whp on the black Z...... someday.
07-27-2009, 03:56 AM
#1839
Registered User
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NOTE: I’m not an attorney but I just so happen to have one sitting right beside me while I’m typing this. His job is to check my spelling and to apparently poke fun at me for wasting my time explaining anything on this forum. So if I start using big words please note that they probably aren’t mine. Thanks and sorry.
Dave, I first wanted to say that I personally though very highly of you since stepping up to and offering to take care of Chris from day one. Your business ethics and sincere devotion to taking care of your customers is nothing less than outstanding. I would personally feel safe and secure as your customer leaving any vehicle in your shops professional hands. I truly believe that really.
I feel like I should correct you regarding some of your statements on the legality in this particular situation. You are very correct in stating that “There are FEW (had to correct this because there are indeed a few) laws or legal boundaries setup for CUSTOM high-performance modifications” but you are very correct that most of those laws are set to prohibit such modifications. In this particular situation a “good attorney” could take that harder road and battle against the actual lack of legal precedence and win at a 60 -70 percent success rate but it’s a long hard and ugly road or take the easy route and present a case of professional incompetence and neglect which would have been very easy to prove in the case of Hill’s shop. In fact the incident regarding the infamous “Rag” would have been so easy to win that case would have been over before lunch with time enough to play 9 holes before going back into the court to joke about the case some more. (NOT MY WORDS)
Attorneys don’t go out of their way to fight cases with lack of legal precedence. Good attorneys know the law well enough to know how to win cases without conflicting with issues of legal precedence but on the off chance that it can’t be avoided it still sit better for them proving the case. “You can add to but never take from the rules.” Any judgment from any case can be referenced even from cases outside jurisdiction that may prove supportive in cases where no precedence has been set. I’m not going to go into explaining that as I’m pretty sure most of you can figure it out of your own.
Another fact of the matter is that (Going back to the infamous “Rag” now) most judges won’t know or care about the detail regarding the functions of how or why an engine works one way or the other and wont care to get that engulfed with the tuning process. All they’ll care about and be focused on the fact that a foreign object was neglectfully left inside the motor which did cause damage to even a single part which “Could” have cause other failures. Rule in favor of the plaintiff, case close, break for lunch. Anyone for golf? That’s about how it would go honestly.
“It is a fool that has himself as an attorney in court” (Again. Not my words) I’ve been asked to say that though you may feel that your case maybe clear cut in your eyes, NEVER assume you don’t need representation from professional counsel. Judges don’t like it. It’s doesn’t impress them. Just don’t do it. Fact is that judges started off as attorneys and by you walking in alone does nothing more than shout “I KNOW THE LAW BETTER THAN YOU!” The courtroom is somewhat like a member’s only club and you should always be accompanied by a member or be ABA.
The fact that the rest of the shops have now followed your lead is indeed impressive and I applaud all for taking great measures in customer service. The Mid-A needs good shops like yours.
I have to go now because my brother is getting annoying. You know how lawyers are.
Dave, I first wanted to say that I personally though very highly of you since stepping up to and offering to take care of Chris from day one. Your business ethics and sincere devotion to taking care of your customers is nothing less than outstanding. I would personally feel safe and secure as your customer leaving any vehicle in your shops professional hands. I truly believe that really.
I feel like I should correct you regarding some of your statements on the legality in this particular situation. You are very correct in stating that “There are FEW (had to correct this because there are indeed a few) laws or legal boundaries setup for CUSTOM high-performance modifications” but you are very correct that most of those laws are set to prohibit such modifications. In this particular situation a “good attorney” could take that harder road and battle against the actual lack of legal precedence and win at a 60 -70 percent success rate but it’s a long hard and ugly road or take the easy route and present a case of professional incompetence and neglect which would have been very easy to prove in the case of Hill’s shop. In fact the incident regarding the infamous “Rag” would have been so easy to win that case would have been over before lunch with time enough to play 9 holes before going back into the court to joke about the case some more. (NOT MY WORDS)
Attorneys don’t go out of their way to fight cases with lack of legal precedence. Good attorneys know the law well enough to know how to win cases without conflicting with issues of legal precedence but on the off chance that it can’t be avoided it still sit better for them proving the case. “You can add to but never take from the rules.” Any judgment from any case can be referenced even from cases outside jurisdiction that may prove supportive in cases where no precedence has been set. I’m not going to go into explaining that as I’m pretty sure most of you can figure it out of your own.
Another fact of the matter is that (Going back to the infamous “Rag” now) most judges won’t know or care about the detail regarding the functions of how or why an engine works one way or the other and wont care to get that engulfed with the tuning process. All they’ll care about and be focused on the fact that a foreign object was neglectfully left inside the motor which did cause damage to even a single part which “Could” have cause other failures. Rule in favor of the plaintiff, case close, break for lunch. Anyone for golf? That’s about how it would go honestly.
“It is a fool that has himself as an attorney in court” (Again. Not my words) I’ve been asked to say that though you may feel that your case maybe clear cut in your eyes, NEVER assume you don’t need representation from professional counsel. Judges don’t like it. It’s doesn’t impress them. Just don’t do it. Fact is that judges started off as attorneys and by you walking in alone does nothing more than shout “I KNOW THE LAW BETTER THAN YOU!” The courtroom is somewhat like a member’s only club and you should always be accompanied by a member or be ABA.
The fact that the rest of the shops have now followed your lead is indeed impressive and I applaud all for taking great measures in customer service. The Mid-A needs good shops like yours.
I have to go now because my brother is getting annoying. You know how lawyers are.
Any updates?
07-27-2009, 04:11 AM
#1840
Good runs on the 2nd race it looked like the Z had a rolling start on the Vette
The C6 had the jump and still got yanked, not bad...
BTW-NO FAWKING WAY that Vette (S/C) could beat a liter bike if in the correct gear with a decent rider. My friends 600 would rape that Vette...
The C6 had the jump and still got yanked, not bad...
BTW-NO FAWKING WAY that Vette (S/C) could beat a liter bike if in the correct gear with a decent rider. My friends 600 would rape that Vette...
Last edited by Alberto; 07-27-2009 at 04:12 AM.