****** TTG35forT - Rev 2.0 ******
05-17-2010, 09:48 AM
#161
My boys at Justice Racing may be Darton East 
, not 100% on that, but I remember seeing that tag on something of theirs, possibly a bill I got from them. I know they do a bunch of sleeves for different applications and they talked me through their process and it was VERY different from what AAM was doing at the time.
That being said, my understanding is that almost every sleeved block runs higher in the temp range than stock and they have a tendency to lift heads.
, not 100% on that, but I remember seeing that tag on something of theirs, possibly a bill I got from them. I know they do a bunch of sleeves for different applications and they talked me through their process and it was VERY different from what AAM was doing at the time.That being said, my understanding is that almost every sleeved block runs higher in the temp range than stock and they have a tendency to lift heads.
05-17-2010, 05:20 PM
#162
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Don't remind me.
Nov. 2008 - I blow my last motor and immediately sent my car to Japtrix on a flat bead.
Jan. 2009 - Japtrix finally gets block, etc. over to So. Fla. Crank and Machine - Motor is supposed to take 3-4 weeks. My motor keeps getting bumped back for the race teams they support.
April 2009 - I finally get sick of getting bumped and pull the job. I order through GTM.
August 2009 - I decide to have GTM flat deck the block. It turned out to be far more complicated than they anticipated and turns into an 8 month project. Motor finally ships April 2010.
May 2010 - Waiting for Japtrix to get through their backlog to get to my place in the queue.
Nov. 2008 - I blow my last motor and immediately sent my car to Japtrix on a flat bead.
Jan. 2009 - Japtrix finally gets block, etc. over to So. Fla. Crank and Machine - Motor is supposed to take 3-4 weeks. My motor keeps getting bumped back for the race teams they support.
April 2009 - I finally get sick of getting bumped and pull the job. I order through GTM.
August 2009 - I decide to have GTM flat deck the block. It turned out to be far more complicated than they anticipated and turns into an 8 month project. Motor finally ships April 2010.
May 2010 - Waiting for Japtrix to get through their backlog to get to my place in the queue.
05-18-2010, 03:55 AM
#163
so basically you are saying, that sleeved or unsleeved doesnt matter. The block can still crack in the valley area? 
Your block Cracking on forged 's dyno has nothing to do with sleeving the block, Here is the e mail and the video that we got from forged regarding you block.
http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...t=IMG_0018.flv
" I spoke to Ryan. Turns out you sleeved this block 2.5 years ago. Who knows. Maybe just a weak casting or something "
Also below that is some pics of none sleved block that had the same exact failure. We have seen three block so far cracking in the vally area .
Sam
http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...t=IMG_0018.flv
" I spoke to Ryan. Turns out you sleeved this block 2.5 years ago. Who knows. Maybe just a weak casting or something "
Also below that is some pics of none sleved block that had the same exact failure. We have seen three block so far cracking in the vally area .
Sam
05-18-2010, 08:19 PM
#166
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[QUOTE=Sam@GTM;8387038]Your block Cracking on forged 's dyno has nothing to do with sleeving the block, Here is the e mail and the video that we got from forged regarding you block.
no help as usual sam, excuses...it was proven by a third party that the block was weakened during the install of the sleeves. excuses are typical with u and your shop and thats why u will never get business from me again. not trying to turn this into a pissing match but i want people to know things that have happened without making a callout thread since i still have a tiny bit of respect for u. barely......
k back on topic
no help as usual sam, excuses...it was proven by a third party that the block was weakened during the install of the sleeves. excuses are typical with u and your shop and thats why u will never get business from me again. not trying to turn this into a pissing match but i want people to know things that have happened without making a callout thread since i still have a tiny bit of respect for u. barely......
k back on topic
05-18-2010, 09:13 PM
#167
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[QUOTE=eltness350;8393489]
Your block Cracking on forged 's dyno has nothing to do with sleeving the block, Here is the e mail and the video that we got from forged regarding you block.
no help as usual sam, excuses...it was proven by a third party that the block was weakened during the install of the sleeves. excuses are typical with u and your shop and thats why u will never get business from me again. not trying to turn this into a pissing match but i want people to know things that have happened without making a callout thread since i still have a tiny bit of respect for u. barely......
k back on topic
no help as usual sam, excuses...it was proven by a third party that the block was weakened during the install of the sleeves. excuses are typical with u and your shop and thats why u will never get business from me again. not trying to turn this into a pissing match but i want people to know things that have happened without making a callout thread since i still have a tiny bit of respect for u. barely......
k back on topic
05-18-2010, 10:51 PM
#168
[QUOTE=eltness350;8393489]
I'm not asking for your respect. you came in Terry's thread and posted that your GTM sleeved block cracked on the dyno, I shared with you and everyone here that we have seen this type of failure on none sleeved block.
If you have some good info about how's sleaving the block can weaken it and can cause the problem that you had then start a thread and share that info so we don't have to keep taking this thread off topic .
Sam
Your block Cracking on forged 's dyno has nothing to do with sleeving the block, Here is the e mail and the video that we got from forged regarding you block.
no help as usual sam, excuses...it was proven by a third party that the block was weakened during the install of the sleeves. excuses are typical with u and your shop and thats why u will never get business from me again. not trying to turn this into a pissing match but i want people to know things that have happened without making a callout thread since i still have a tiny bit of respect for u. barely......
k back on topic
no help as usual sam, excuses...it was proven by a third party that the block was weakened during the install of the sleeves. excuses are typical with u and your shop and thats why u will never get business from me again. not trying to turn this into a pissing match but i want people to know things that have happened without making a callout thread since i still have a tiny bit of respect for u. barely......
k back on topic
If you have some good info about how's sleaving the block can weaken it and can cause the problem that you had then start a thread and share that info so we don't have to keep taking this thread off topic .
Sam
05-19-2010, 05:10 AM
#169
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no help as usual sam, excuses...it was proven by a third party that the block was weakened during the install of the sleeves. excuses are typical with u and your shop and thats why u will never get business from me again. not trying to turn this into a pissing match but i want people to know things that have happened without making a callout thread since i still have a tiny bit of respect for u. barely......
k back on topic
k back on topic
One, from an engineering standpoint, this is a VERY difficult thing to prove, so I am very interested in knowing how this was proven. What tests were done that definitively prove the sleeving weakened the block?
And two, if the process of sleeving can definitively cause the possibility of a failure in the valley area down the road...whether it is 2.5 years or 2.5 weeks...it would be great for the community to know this. It would be nice to know what went wrong during the sleeving process to cause the failure.
05-19-2010, 06:23 AM
#170
And the corollary, who is to say it didnt. In GTMs own sleeve product announcement thread, it was stated that a machining error of .005" can mean the difference between a good and bad block. Its hard to believe that thinning out the stock walls in the valley doesnt weaken the valley walls if the new sleeve moves a fraction (expansion difference between steel and AL for instance)?
IIUII vs I[_]I
I is the cylinder wall. U is the stock sleeve [_] is a darton sleeve. Obviously I is thinner when you sleeve. Its unfortunate that Sam has seen cracking in both setups, but like he implies, its probably not sleeve related... who knows, but I know we'd all love to know as the choice between sleeving and non-sleeving is fairly critical.
We do know that most guys with stock bore strokers are NOT sleeving.
IIUII vs I[_]I
I is the cylinder wall. U is the stock sleeve [_] is a darton sleeve. Obviously I is thinner when you sleeve. Its unfortunate that Sam has seen cracking in both setups, but like he implies, its probably not sleeve related... who knows, but I know we'd all love to know as the choice between sleeving and non-sleeving is fairly critical.
We do know that most guys with stock bore strokers are NOT sleeving.
Last edited by str8dum1; 05-19-2010 at 06:28 AM.
05-19-2010, 02:01 PM
#171
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Question - who was the third party and how did they prove that your block failure stemmed from the sleeving? I ask this for two reasons.
One, from an engineering standpoint, this is a VERY difficult thing to prove, so I am very interested in knowing how this was proven. What tests were done that definitively prove the sleeving weakened the block?
And two, if the process of sleeving can definitively cause the possibility of a failure in the valley area down the road...whether it is 2.5 years or 2.5 weeks...it would be great for the community to know this. It would be nice to know what went wrong during the sleeving process to cause the failure.
One, from an engineering standpoint, this is a VERY difficult thing to prove, so I am very interested in knowing how this was proven. What tests were done that definitively prove the sleeving weakened the block?
And two, if the process of sleeving can definitively cause the possibility of a failure in the valley area down the road...whether it is 2.5 years or 2.5 weeks...it would be great for the community to know this. It would be nice to know what went wrong during the sleeving process to cause the failure.
05-19-2010, 02:35 PM
#172
really?? after all the calls and "gray area" so no fingers couldnt be pointed apparently u dont remember me huh? wow....
u convinced me to let u do the sleeve work instead of darton, then game me a crazy huge quote on a build so i didnt go through u , as for the cracked block its still sitting at forged if u wanna stop by and see it....
u convinced me to let u do the sleeve work instead of darton, then game me a crazy huge quote on a build so i didnt go through u , as for the cracked block its still sitting at forged if u wanna stop by and see it....
it took me 2.5yrs to put the motor back together and twin turbo it...motor had 500miles on it for break in and then put on sharifs dyno. i will not give out the name of the company but it was completely dissasembled/tolerances checked...how it was installed was checked and it wasnt lets just say "up to par" with what was proper. yes other aspects could have caused failure but this is the main one so i just want it known without going into too much detail in posts but making my point since obviously sam doesnt give two $hits about me or his work when i was goin to have a full build through him and not a diff shop until i seen the bill was twice what i was quoted elseware....anything else on this please pm me ....i dont want to $hit on this great thread
05-19-2010, 04:20 PM
#173
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at that time it was sitting there......umm u know that...didnt take long to send it out and get it back... especially since it happened a year ago....good one 
again sorry to the op....
again sorry to the op....
Last edited by eltness350; 05-19-2010 at 06:35 PM.
05-29-2010, 12:01 PM
#174
UPDATE - I'm still waiting, actually both for Japtrix and GTM.
GTM was supposed to supply aluminum piping for the compressor side of the turbo system, but sent stainless steel. It is way too heavy for the front of my car. Sam says he is going to get the aluminum piping to me, but who knows when.
Roger had to cancel getting my car started last weekend because the oil leaked out of the container where he had my L19 head studs stored and they corroded. He was supposed to get new ones in this week, but I can't seem to get hold of him to find out when the project is going to get under way.
I am a patient man, but this is stressing me out.
GTM was supposed to supply aluminum piping for the compressor side of the turbo system, but sent stainless steel. It is way too heavy for the front of my car. Sam says he is going to get the aluminum piping to me, but who knows when.
Roger had to cancel getting my car started last weekend because the oil leaked out of the container where he had my L19 head studs stored and they corroded. He was supposed to get new ones in this week, but I can't seem to get hold of him to find out when the project is going to get under way.
I am a patient man, but this is stressing me out.
05-29-2010, 09:08 PM
#176
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hey terry im goin to japtrix tuesday morning to get my tune re-tweaked from Roger... I seem to be runnin a lil lean all of a sudden n now that i went out for a few pulls im hittin the boost limit of 10 psi (dunno why)... I'll try n ask him bout ur ride n see what he says... If there's anythin you want me to ask bout updates just pm me n lemme know.
Last edited by Elperuano; 05-30-2010 at 12:18 PM. Reason: got the name confused :P
05-30-2010, 10:07 AM
#178
Rev. 2 on my build is now going on 19 months. I just want to get this thing moving along.
Even after we get the motor assembled, it looks like I will be waiting on GTM to get the aluminum piping to me. My engine bay is freshly painted, and to try to use the SS piping now, and change it out later, likely will result in my paint getting all scratched up. I spoke with Sam on Wednesday and he was to call me back on Thursday, but I didn't here from him. Hopefully he has good news for me next week.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 05-30-2010 at 10:15 AM.
05-30-2010, 10:55 AM
#179
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Thanks Jeff. That explains why I could not get hold of anyone on Sat. Roger was supposed to call me when the new L19s arrived, which was supposed to be last Monday. By Friday I had not heard from him, so left a message with John for Roger to call me to confirm a schedule. He did not call on Friday, but hopefully I hear from him on Tuesday.
Rev. 2 on my build is now going on 19 months. I just want to get this thing moving along.
Even after we get the motor assembled, it looks like I will be waiting on GTM to get the aluminum piping to me. My engine bay is freshly painted, and to try to use the SS piping now, and change it out later, likely will result in my paint getting all scratched up. I spoke with Sam on Wednesday and he was to call me back on Thursday, but I didn't here from him. Hopefully he has good news for me next week.
Rev. 2 on my build is now going on 19 months. I just want to get this thing moving along.
Even after we get the motor assembled, it looks like I will be waiting on GTM to get the aluminum piping to me. My engine bay is freshly painted, and to try to use the SS piping now, and change it out later, likely will result in my paint getting all scratched up. I spoke with Sam on Wednesday and he was to call me back on Thursday, but I didn't here from him. Hopefully he has good news for me next week.
