Longevity of full builds, the good the bad
12-10-2009, 10:20 AM
#62
I wish it was actually possible to find out what went wrong when a motor fails... speculation sucks. How can so many sleeved builds go wrong? 
Alberto, I agree with you - cylinder temps are way past 250, so if anything, coolant hitting it (at any temp), would cool it down. With Evans, you didn't get a gas pocket forming, so something else is up... Perhaps the coolant flow design with sleeves is just poor.
there is no end to the speculation...
Alberto, I agree with you - cylinder temps are way past 250, so if anything, coolant hitting it (at any temp), would cool it down. With Evans, you didn't get a gas pocket forming, so something else is up... Perhaps the coolant flow design with sleeves is just poor.
there is no end to the speculation...
12-10-2009, 08:27 PM
#66
My point is that the original build shop will often say that the inspecting shop has an agenda against the original shop, and that the inspecting shop is doctoring the results to put the blame on the original build shop and make them look bad....
An ideal situation is where the build shop and the customer agree on a neutral shop to do the inspection..,,
An ideal situation is where the build shop and the customer agree on a neutral shop to do the inspection..,,
12-10-2009, 11:56 PM
#67
My engine cranked 5-20-09, so about 7 months and ~6k miles.
Using castrol GTX 10w40 + comp cam breakin additive (switching to Rotella T tomorrow)
The build:
Wiseco 8.8:1 96mm
Eagle H beams
ACL bearings
HR headgasket + HR head bolts
stock heads
Dyno: none yet, but estimated around 400-430whp at 15psi from an HX35 Holset, not done with setup, so no dyno till then (should be soon)
Bore/hone was done at Mesa Balancing here in Miami, and balancing the rotating assembly was at Southflorida Automotive (Phil), all else done by myself (build, assembly, installation).
Also tuned by myself
Issues:
As far as motor itself, none. Just the normal minor piston slap at start up till it warms up.
I do have an oil leak but thats due to low quality silicone and inexperience (Ultra Black RTV > Ultra Grey). Iv put together VQ's a good amount of times with always using ultra black, the 1st time i use grey (since its what nissan recommends) it was failure, eventually i have to take it apart and redo silicone with black.
Using castrol GTX 10w40 + comp cam breakin additive (switching to Rotella T tomorrow)
The build:
Wiseco 8.8:1 96mm
Eagle H beams
ACL bearings
HR headgasket + HR head bolts
stock heads
Dyno: none yet, but estimated around 400-430whp at 15psi from an HX35 Holset, not done with setup, so no dyno till then (should be soon)
Bore/hone was done at Mesa Balancing here in Miami, and balancing the rotating assembly was at Southflorida Automotive (Phil), all else done by myself (build, assembly, installation).
Also tuned by myself
Issues:
As far as motor itself, none. Just the normal minor piston slap at start up till it warms up.
I do have an oil leak but thats due to low quality silicone and inexperience (Ultra Black RTV > Ultra Grey). Iv put together VQ's a good amount of times with always using ultra black, the 1st time i use grey (since its what nissan recommends) it was failure, eventually i have to take it apart and redo silicone with black.
12-11-2009, 04:15 AM
#68
Also, most reputable shops are willing to help customers get back on the road, and by going to another shop most people wouldnt get "help" if you catch my drift.
12-11-2009, 05:33 AM
#69
Let me ask a question? Who is running sleeved motors right now that have been lasting problem free since they first built them? Also imo I think the issue with sleeving is when shops try to install the sleeves "in house" rather than sending the blocks to companies like darton right from the beginining, to have them properly installed.
12-11-2009, 06:11 AM
#71
*we need to know who has sleeves NOT HAD SLEEVES!
*tracks and races on the street,not tucking there car in a garage collecting dust
*and making over 550
on the real not trying to sound lilke a vtr pillow biter but how come this dude hasn't had any overheating or headlifting issues. I really can't talk for how hard the people that have their motors built by him drive their cars but his website guarantees that his motors DO NOT LIFT HEADS OVERHEAT OR SPIN BEARINGS? Would he be making this statement if he didnt know the cause of the problems with sleeves and high horsepower numbers? How come no other shops make this promise? Berto chime in tell me you're thoughts as i interested in knowing the same thing.
12-11-2009, 06:14 AM
#72
I dont know enough about VTR to honestly give you my opinion of Vinny/his shop
I also dont know how his customers with sleeves truly treat their cars. Everybody can make promises and look legit. Soooo many shops on here brag about things and then tell customers to not run those dyno queen numbers ever, dont "abuse" the cars, etc. But that is really for another thread.
My opinion and most would agree. 98% of people, including me, dont need sleeves. Id be weary of any shop that is still promoting them for most standard builds.
I also dont know how his customers with sleeves truly treat their cars. Everybody can make promises and look legit. Soooo many shops on here brag about things and then tell customers to not run those dyno queen numbers ever, dont "abuse" the cars, etc. But that is really for another thread.
My opinion and most would agree. 98% of people, including me, dont need sleeves. Id be weary of any shop that is still promoting them for most standard builds.
12-11-2009, 06:39 AM
#73
what do you consider a "standard build"
The way I look at it anything over 650 should be sleeved IMO i dont care what people think that vq can hold on stock sleeves. Some people are these forums are looking at sleeves now as a possible cause for the overheating, whiich personally I dont blame them. I personally think its in the machining and inproperly installed sleeves bottom line. How can a shop like VTR make a promise of no spun bearings,no overheating and or lifting heads in big letters underlined on his website.
*As far as Vinny he is a stand up guy, but won't tell shop secrets as this is something that keeps him ahead of the game imo,
*As far as his customers driving their cars hard on sleeves? Well I know for a fact they have a small group of older gentleman that road race their cars,This imo is the hardest beatings you can put on a motor! Never heard or see them talking about overheating real talk!
*As far as you're set up old one and latest one ,you should have had sleeves imo you like to beat the $hit out of you're car just like I do! Thats my opinion so dont take offense. You like big power and having extra security in you're engine cant hurt(as long as everything is installed correctly) Can you confirm that it was the sleeves or are you still in the diagnosis period? Whatever the case maybe, you car has not only been setting an example but has shown so many of us to be wary of what you're doing this vq motors. They have a intricate cooling system and having high power expectations without the proper equipment may make or break you're engine (sleeved or unsleeved..) and real drivers in street driven cars put more stress on the motor than shop cars I dont care what anyone thinks this is why we may not see that many shop cars with overheats IMO!
The way I look at it anything over 650 should be sleeved IMO i dont care what people think that vq can hold on stock sleeves. Some people are these forums are looking at sleeves now as a possible cause for the overheating, whiich personally I dont blame them. I personally think its in the machining and inproperly installed sleeves bottom line. How can a shop like VTR make a promise of no spun bearings,no overheating and or lifting heads in big letters underlined on his website.
*As far as Vinny he is a stand up guy, but won't tell shop secrets as this is something that keeps him ahead of the game imo,
*As far as his customers driving their cars hard on sleeves? Well I know for a fact they have a small group of older gentleman that road race their cars,This imo is the hardest beatings you can put on a motor! Never heard or see them talking about overheating real talk!
*As far as you're set up old one and latest one ,you should have had sleeves imo you like to beat the $hit out of you're car just like I do! Thats my opinion so dont take offense. You like big power and having extra security in you're engine cant hurt(as long as everything is installed correctly) Can you confirm that it was the sleeves or are you still in the diagnosis period? Whatever the case maybe, you car has not only been setting an example but has shown so many of us to be wary of what you're doing this vq motors. They have a intricate cooling system and having high power expectations without the proper equipment may make or break you're engine (sleeved or unsleeved..) and real drivers in street driven cars put more stress on the motor than shop cars I dont care what anyone thinks this is why we may not see that many shop cars with overheats IMO!
12-11-2009, 06:49 AM
#75
Thats incorrect.. you don't need sleeves on VQ's.. the biggest misconception is comparing the VQ with other motors out there and people trying to do that... that has been the cause of alot of failures stock or built blocks.. too many people trying to do the same thing with the VQ others have done with totally different motors.. from Sleeves.. to Head Gaskets.. to Head Bolts.. to Tuning with extra Timing.. you name it.. the more people try to compensate as they have done on other motors is more they blew up VQ's..
12-11-2009, 06:51 AM
#76
How can a shop like VTR make a promise of no spun bearings,no overheating and or lifting heads in big letters underlined on his website.
*As far as Vinny he is a stand up guy, but won't tell shop secrets as this is something that keeps him ahead of the game imo,
*As far as his customers driving their cars hard on sleeves? Well I know for a fact they have a small group of older gentleman that road race their cars,This imo is the hardest beatings you can put on a motor! Never heard or see them talking about overheating real talk!
*As far as you're set up old one and latest one ,you should have had sleeves imo you like to beat the $hit out of you're car just like I do! Thats my opinion so dont take offense. You like big power and having extra security in you're engine cant hurt(as long as everything is installed correctly) Can you confirm that it was the sleeves or are you still in the diagnosis period? Whatever the case maybe, you car has not only been setting an example but has shown so many of us to be wary of what you're doing this vq motors. They have a intricate cooling system and having high power expectations without the proper equipment may make or break you're engine (sleeved or unsleeved..) and real drivers in street driven cars put more stress on the motor than shop cars I dont care what anyone thinks this is why we may not see that many shop cars with overheats IMO!
*As far as Vinny he is a stand up guy, but won't tell shop secrets as this is something that keeps him ahead of the game imo,
*As far as his customers driving their cars hard on sleeves? Well I know for a fact they have a small group of older gentleman that road race their cars,This imo is the hardest beatings you can put on a motor! Never heard or see them talking about overheating real talk!
*As far as you're set up old one and latest one ,you should have had sleeves imo you like to beat the $hit out of you're car just like I do! Thats my opinion so dont take offense. You like big power and having extra security in you're engine cant hurt(as long as everything is installed correctly) Can you confirm that it was the sleeves or are you still in the diagnosis period? Whatever the case maybe, you car has not only been setting an example but has shown so many of us to be wary of what you're doing this vq motors. They have a intricate cooling system and having high power expectations without the proper equipment may make or break you're engine (sleeved or unsleeved..) and real drivers in street driven cars put more stress on the motor than shop cars I dont care what anyone thinks this is why we may not see that many shop cars with overheats IMO!
12-11-2009, 06:53 AM
#77
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what do you consider a "standard build"
The way I look at it anything over 650 should be sleeved IMO i dont care what people think that vq can hold on stock sleeves. Some people are these forums are looking at sleeves now as a possible cause for the overheating, whiich personally I dont blame them. I personally think its in the machining and inproperly installed sleeves bottom line. How can a shop like VTR make a promise of no spun bearings,no overheating and or lifting heads in big letters underlined on his website.
*As far as Vinny he is a stand up guy, but won't tell shop secrets as this is something that keeps him ahead of the game imo,
*As far as his customers driving their cars hard on sleeves? Well I know for a fact they have a small group of older gentleman that road race their cars,This imo is the hardest beatings you can put on a motor! Never heard or see them talking about overheating real talk!
*As far as you're set up old one and latest one ,you should have had sleeves imo you like to beat the $hit out of you're car just like I do! Thats my opinion so dont take offense. You like big power and having extra security in you're engine cant hurt(as long as everything is installed correctly) Can you confirm that it was the sleeves or are you still in the diagnosis period? Whatever the case maybe, you car has not only been setting an example but has shown so many of us to be wary of what you're doing this vq motors. They have a intricate cooling system and having high power expectations without the proper equipment may make or break you're engine (sleeved or unsleeved..) and real drivers in street driven cars put more stress on the motor than shop cars I dont care what anyone thinks this is why we may not see that many shop cars with overheats IMO!
The way I look at it anything over 650 should be sleeved IMO i dont care what people think that vq can hold on stock sleeves. Some people are these forums are looking at sleeves now as a possible cause for the overheating, whiich personally I dont blame them. I personally think its in the machining and inproperly installed sleeves bottom line. How can a shop like VTR make a promise of no spun bearings,no overheating and or lifting heads in big letters underlined on his website.
*As far as Vinny he is a stand up guy, but won't tell shop secrets as this is something that keeps him ahead of the game imo,
*As far as his customers driving their cars hard on sleeves? Well I know for a fact they have a small group of older gentleman that road race their cars,This imo is the hardest beatings you can put on a motor! Never heard or see them talking about overheating real talk!
*As far as you're set up old one and latest one ,you should have had sleeves imo you like to beat the $hit out of you're car just like I do! Thats my opinion so dont take offense. You like big power and having extra security in you're engine cant hurt(as long as everything is installed correctly) Can you confirm that it was the sleeves or are you still in the diagnosis period? Whatever the case maybe, you car has not only been setting an example but has shown so many of us to be wary of what you're doing this vq motors. They have a intricate cooling system and having high power expectations without the proper equipment may make or break you're engine (sleeved or unsleeved..) and real drivers in street driven cars put more stress on the motor than shop cars I dont care what anyone thinks this is why we may not see that many shop cars with overheats IMO!
If you haven't had experience with this, GTFO.
12-11-2009, 06:56 AM
#78
No matter how nice a shop owner, employee is, or how nice the "guarantee's" sound, in the aftermarket parts world, there is no guarantee!
650whp no sleeves needed, IMO for 800whp or less I wouldnt run them. If you go ahead and do sleeves, you will likely be on these forums in 2 years posting about how crappy your experience was, sounding like me trying to keep people who believe shops owners instead of honest Z owners who SHARE ALL THEIR EXPERIENCES to not do them.
Dont buy into that BS!!!!
Thread officially hijacked now....this discussion is for another place
650whp no sleeves needed, IMO for 800whp or less I wouldnt run them. If you go ahead and do sleeves, you will likely be on these forums in 2 years posting about how crappy your experience was, sounding like me trying to keep people who believe shops owners instead of honest Z owners who SHARE ALL THEIR EXPERIENCES to not do them.
Dont buy into that BS!!!!
Thread officially hijacked now....this discussion is for another place
12-11-2009, 07:16 AM
#80
VTR has a clult following.. if anything good or bad is going on in that shop you will never know... as far as i know they only have 1 big build.. and thats that Police Officer guy and it 'appears' he has been through two motors.. last time it got called out.. it was covered up.. anyway.. take VTR for what it is..
As for as rocky or (police officer guy lol) I dont talk to him much or see him that much to actually ask him about his car! Plus from what I have been told he got kicked off the formus. His car has been running flawlessly since build, my understanding is that he wanted to take a different route with his build I could be wrong but judging by how the car looks now I would assume soo..(or maybe it is all part of his coverup for motor blowing
lol)