Longevity of full builds, the good the bad
12-11-2009, 12:06 PM
#121
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Holy cow!!!!! Now I see why you smacked down my tune question Alberto.......This thread is WAAAAAAYYYY off track.
However, looking at all the posts....I'm glad I have decided to stay under 500Hp on the VQ. This is my toy and sees alot of track time besides the spirited weekend sprints.
However, looking at all the posts....I'm glad I have decided to stay under 500Hp on the VQ. This is my toy and sees alot of track time besides the spirited weekend sprints.
12-11-2009, 08:44 PM
#125
What power/boost do you mostly drive at?
HIGH BOOST ONLY
Cooling mods?
PWR RADIATOR, EVANS COOLANT, NISMO THERMOSTAT
ECU?
HALTECH
Be HONEST - how hard do you drive it?
STUPID HARD
Triple digits much?
ALL THE TIME
Head studs?
ARP
Head gasket?
HKS
Anything more info would be good to gather seeing as how you have had success.
HIGH BOOST ONLY
Cooling mods?
PWR RADIATOR, EVANS COOLANT, NISMO THERMOSTAT
ECU?
HALTECH
Be HONEST - how hard do you drive it?
STUPID HARD
Triple digits much?
ALL THE TIME
Head studs?
ARP
Head gasket?
HKS
Anything more info would be good to gather seeing as how you have had success.
12-11-2009, 10:21 PM
#126
Jay-how much power at high boost and on what dyno?
I tried to get a Nismo Tstat months ago but it was on backorder so I didnt.
I have been meaning to add one.
Im done trying to help people-funny how people are experts arguing on a forum just because a shop owner tells em something.
Always-the burden of proof is on you. YOU prove why you are doing sleeves, other than because "Vinny says so"
I tried to get a Nismo Tstat months ago but it was on backorder so I didnt.
I have been meaning to add one.
Im done trying to help people-funny how people are experts arguing on a forum just because a shop owner tells em something.
Always-the burden of proof is on you. YOU prove why you are doing sleeves, other than because "Vinny says so"
12-12-2009, 04:32 AM
#127
Bert-funny how you still dont understand what Im saying. I'm not on the forums to bicker back and fourth with people that dont understand what I am saying. I could care less what VINNY tells me, as he is may be reading this too . Trust me Berto, this is not the only high horsepower car i have built. The simple question to you I asked is if you were gonna push high power not 550 or 650. We are talking 750+ would you sleeve it or would you say you dont trust sleeves and keep the power level down in fear of lifting heads or overheating. All im saying is that if sleeves were A PROBLEM don't you think vehicles leaving vtr shop would have the same issues that everyone else here is having or are you gonna tell me that Vinny is no different then any other builder/tunner on this forum and has not figured out the overheating issues either. Answer that one question. Too answer you question about why Im doing sleeves well its for the added security and one day if and when I decide to push my motor past the 800 hp mark my sleeves are in there so I dont have to take my motor back out. And the way I look at it that wont be far away. And I do have sleeves however I cannot speak on my motor because I dont have the r&D TIME to say it wont lift heads or overheat but $hit if all those cars coming out of that shop have not yet lifted heads/overheated with some of them having 650-700 hp range and road racing with 10k plus on their builds is it safe to assume that those motors may not have the same issue as everyone else. This is just food for thought thats all, think what you wanna think. Im just putting it out there hoping maybe someone knows what the issue is, not to go back and fourth with people that have not figured it out and blame the problem on the sleeves or headstuds. Nor do i care to boost one shops rep I could care less he has more business coming his way with the forums or without...
And to answer you're other question, I dont listen to other shops telling me or promising me things until I see a motor that he builds lift heads or overheats then I will think other wise. Maybe the shops you listened to twice told you otherwise and thats what I'm trying to prevent happen to other people..
And to answer you're other question, I dont listen to other shops telling me or promising me things until I see a motor that he builds lift heads or overheats then I will think other wise. Maybe the shops you listened to twice told you otherwise and thats what I'm trying to prevent happen to other people..
Last edited by AlwaysNBoost; 12-12-2009 at 04:46 AM.
12-12-2009, 04:42 AM
#128
Jay-how much power at high boost and on what dyno?
I tried to get a Nismo Tstat months ago but it was on backorder so I didnt.
I have been meaning to add one.
Im done trying to help people-funny how people are experts arguing on a forum just because a shop owner tells em something.
Always-the burden of proof is on you. YOU prove why you are doing sleeves, other than because "Vinny says so"
I tried to get a Nismo Tstat months ago but it was on backorder so I didnt.
I have been meaning to add one.
Im done trying to help people-funny how people are experts arguing on a forum just because a shop owner tells em something.
Always-the burden of proof is on you. YOU prove why you are doing sleeves, other than because "Vinny says so"
Nismo Tstat keeps my initial temps at 170, then if i go hard it will raise slightly but always go back down to 170...
And I would never sleeve.. IMO..
Last edited by Jay'Z; 12-12-2009 at 04:43 AM.
12-12-2009, 06:39 AM
#129
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Still patiently waiting for AlwaysNBoost to list off the cars with sleeve failures that would necessitate the use of upgraded sleeves above 650whp.....he could even start a new thread. Heck, maybe I will.
Who cares what their "reliability" record is with this shop or that shop, the point is that re-sleeving a block will NEVER be as reliable as a stock sleeve block from Nissan.
/stupid bickering and let this thread get back on track.
Who cares what their "reliability" record is with this shop or that shop, the point is that re-sleeving a block will NEVER be as reliable as a stock sleeve block from Nissan.
/stupid bickering and let this thread get back on track.
12-12-2009, 06:53 AM
#130
Motor #1 & #2 - puchased through my350z classifieds from private seller (scammer) for $5500
1. Time (months) on built motor - zero time
2. Miles on built motor - 1 dyno pull
3. HP, TQ, PSI (all three) - unknown
4. Who built the motor (optional) - The motor was completely torn down on arrival, original builder unknown. Heads & Ferrea +1mm valves re-done by HeadGames, redecked and line honed by local shop in Baltimore area, assembly by Frank Hill with new internals and all the supporting mods and hardware. Motor spun a main bearing on the first dyno pull to set A/F ratio and then died from massive oil starvation. Entire build was lost.
1. Time (months) on built motor - zero time
2. Miles on built motor - 1 dyno pull
3. HP, TQ, PSI (all three) - unknown
4. Who built the motor (optional) - The motor was completely torn down on arrival, original builder unknown. Heads & Ferrea +1mm valves re-done by HeadGames, redecked and line honed by local shop in Baltimore area, assembly by Frank Hill with new internals and all the supporting mods and hardware. Motor spun a main bearing on the first dyno pull to set A/F ratio and then died from massive oil starvation. Entire build was lost.
Last edited by Cass007; 12-12-2009 at 07:26 AM.
12-12-2009, 07:25 AM
#131
Motor #3
1. Time (months) on built motor - Appx 2 weeks dyno tuning, car never made it to delivery to me
2. Miles on built motor - ~500 miles on odometer, dyno and street tuning
3. HP, TQ, PSI (all three) - 643whp DD (TQ unknown) @ 18psi on 93oct+meth
4. Who built the motor (optional) - Spec'd/Machined by Justice Racing Engines, Heads and Valves by HeadGames, assembly by Frank Hill, tuning by Function Tuned.
As I was leaving to pick up the car from the tuner I got a call and was informed the motor had most likely spun a bearing. #rd party teardown by Justice determined no defect in assembly and no detonation by tuning. Cause of death was spun main bearing due to massive oil starvation, but the root cause of the failure was unknown. Entire build was a loss again.
This motor also had an ancillary issue where a shop rag was accidently left in the passenger side turbo which caused the turbo to begin to eat itself. No parts from the turbo blades or rag were located in the motor upon teardown.
1. Time (months) on built motor - Appx 2 weeks dyno tuning, car never made it to delivery to me
2. Miles on built motor - ~500 miles on odometer, dyno and street tuning
3. HP, TQ, PSI (all three) - 643whp DD (TQ unknown) @ 18psi on 93oct+meth
4. Who built the motor (optional) - Spec'd/Machined by Justice Racing Engines, Heads and Valves by HeadGames, assembly by Frank Hill, tuning by Function Tuned.
As I was leaving to pick up the car from the tuner I got a call and was informed the motor had most likely spun a bearing. #rd party teardown by Justice determined no defect in assembly and no detonation by tuning. Cause of death was spun main bearing due to massive oil starvation, but the root cause of the failure was unknown. Entire build was a loss again.
This motor also had an ancillary issue where a shop rag was accidently left in the passenger side turbo which caused the turbo to begin to eat itself. No parts from the turbo blades or rag were located in the motor upon teardown.
12-12-2009, 07:42 AM
#132
Motor #4
1. Time (months) on built motor - ~3 months
2. Miles on built motor - ~1000 miles
3. HP, TQ, PSI (all three) 614whp DD @18psi 93oct+meth (TQ unknown)
4. Who built the motor (optional) - Spec'd/machined/assembled shortblock by Justice Racing Engines, longblock assembly by Frank Hill & Dave Shiroma, tuned by Function Tuned
The car currently idles at 1750rpm - cause unknown.
Attempted to fix idle issue and meth tune was lost when fuel map went crazy - cause unknown
SP triple pump hanger installed and fuel gauge float is hung up, so fuel gauge is not functioning
Fuel pumps initially wired to amp, turn up the radio and blow the fuse, shut off car. Repaired by myself when I ran a dedicated power line to the amp.
Steering knuckle hits drivers side manifold and the steering has a hang up when turning right, especially when the car is cold.
Sub frame is hitting a coupler on the drivers side front and will eventually wear through the hose, grinding of sub-frame required.
Carbonetics triple clutch is very grabby when hot and causes me concern if stuck in any traffic at all (if you have a similar clutch you know what I mean).
Stillen front fascia is already showing signs of stress cracks in the paint around the headlight corners front high speed runs, it also did not line up properly with the factory underpan cover or fender wells so the drivers side front fender liner released from the mounts and was consumed by the front tire.
No possible way to pass my local emissions inspection, so registration in another state will eventually be necessary unless I drive the car less than 5K/year.
1. Time (months) on built motor - ~3 months
2. Miles on built motor - ~1000 miles
3. HP, TQ, PSI (all three) 614whp DD @18psi 93oct+meth (TQ unknown)
4. Who built the motor (optional) - Spec'd/machined/assembled shortblock by Justice Racing Engines, longblock assembly by Frank Hill & Dave Shiroma, tuned by Function Tuned
The car currently idles at 1750rpm - cause unknown.
Attempted to fix idle issue and meth tune was lost when fuel map went crazy - cause unknown
SP triple pump hanger installed and fuel gauge float is hung up, so fuel gauge is not functioning
Fuel pumps initially wired to amp, turn up the radio and blow the fuse, shut off car. Repaired by myself when I ran a dedicated power line to the amp.
Steering knuckle hits drivers side manifold and the steering has a hang up when turning right, especially when the car is cold.
Sub frame is hitting a coupler on the drivers side front and will eventually wear through the hose, grinding of sub-frame required.
Carbonetics triple clutch is very grabby when hot and causes me concern if stuck in any traffic at all (if you have a similar clutch you know what I mean).
Stillen front fascia is already showing signs of stress cracks in the paint around the headlight corners front high speed runs, it also did not line up properly with the factory underpan cover or fender wells so the drivers side front fender liner released from the mounts and was consumed by the front tire.
No possible way to pass my local emissions inspection, so registration in another state will eventually be necessary unless I drive the car less than 5K/year.
12-12-2009, 08:01 AM
#133
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Thats incorrect.. you don't need sleeves on VQ's.. the biggest misconception is comparing the VQ with other motors out there and people trying to do that... that has been the cause of alot of failures stock or built blocks.. too many people trying to do the same thing with the VQ others have done with totally different motors.. from Sleeves.. to Head Gaskets.. to Head Bolts.. to Tuning with extra Timing.. you name it.. the more people try to compensate as they have done on other motors is more they blew up VQ's..
12-12-2009, 08:28 AM
#134
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hey alberto heres the answers to your questions
What power/boost do you mostly drive at? Car is mostly driven at 500 horse power but does see over 600 often.
Cooling mods? big koyo radiator, nismo t-stat, pathfinder mod, GTM fans and shroud, Samco hoses, regular coolant with water wetter, Setrab oil cooler. My turbo manifolds and down pipes are jet hot coated and my turbos have turbo blankets. All my lines are fire sleeved.
ECU? stock ecu no reflash with the utec ( this will be replaced in the spring with a standalone though)
Be HONEST - how hard do you drive it? I do drive it hard but I dont abuse it. I do maintence religiously as well as a complete inspection of all mechanical parts. I sent out my oil after after every change as well.
Triple digits much? Whenever I have the room to do it lol. Not every minute im in the car though.
Head studs? GTM 12mm basically the same as the ARP L19
Head gasket?cometic (it is the only one available to my knowledge for a 100mm overbore)
Anything more info would be good to gather seeing as how you have had success.
I hope this info helps guys. My oil shows that the engine is in fine working order with no problems noted. Maybe the headlift issue is not the sleeves but the 1/2 head studs? Im just speculating but I would also like to find an answer as I am running a sleeved setup and threads like this make me nervous
What power/boost do you mostly drive at? Car is mostly driven at 500 horse power but does see over 600 often.
Cooling mods? big koyo radiator, nismo t-stat, pathfinder mod, GTM fans and shroud, Samco hoses, regular coolant with water wetter, Setrab oil cooler. My turbo manifolds and down pipes are jet hot coated and my turbos have turbo blankets. All my lines are fire sleeved.
ECU? stock ecu no reflash with the utec ( this will be replaced in the spring with a standalone though)
Be HONEST - how hard do you drive it? I do drive it hard but I dont abuse it. I do maintence religiously as well as a complete inspection of all mechanical parts. I sent out my oil after after every change as well.
Triple digits much? Whenever I have the room to do it lol. Not every minute im in the car though.
Head studs? GTM 12mm basically the same as the ARP L19
Head gasket?cometic (it is the only one available to my knowledge for a 100mm overbore)
Anything more info would be good to gather seeing as how you have had success.
I hope this info helps guys. My oil shows that the engine is in fine working order with no problems noted. Maybe the headlift issue is not the sleeves but the 1/2 head studs? Im just speculating but I would also like to find an answer as I am running a sleeved setup and threads like this make me nervous
12-14-2009, 07:13 AM
#136
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yes alberto my oil was sent to blackstone after every change and it has always come back in check with no signs of anything going on besides a healthy motor. I really feel like the 1/2 headstuds could be at fault. I know alot of shops like injected, sound performance, forged, GTM and intense that have done 4.2L and they all require sleeving but they use L19 headstuds. Most of the sleeve failures I see come from sub par machine work. It is alot of work to get sleeves installed right but if they are and coupled with the right supporting cooling mods I really think they are fine and add alot of rigidity to the block. This is just my 2cents
12-14-2009, 07:26 AM
#137
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2003 TT
Fully Built since sept 2007
did built motor, twins, fuel system, cooling, blah blah blah all at the same time. Sleeved with every mod under the hood.
Built motor at 28k miles. Car now has 34k.
broke a Tomei cam in half at 500 miles on the built motor. still have the cam sitting in the garage. SGP built the motor. SGP tore it down and sent the heads to the machine shop to do a once over. Put everything back together and retuned for 13psi (532whp). All on SGP's dime. Been running strong ever since. Has been to MSR houston for a track day. About to retune for 20psi and 100 shot of nitrous when the clutch is broken in.
I maintain this car by time rather than mileage as these days I only put about 800 miles a year on her. So once every 3 months (maybe 200-300 miles) I change the oil. Just put in a carbonetics triple and changed the tranny fluid. Recently she's been trying to get hot (last two times i've driven her). Either have air in teh cooling system or my thermo is going bad. Other than that, I beat on her everytime I drive her....and she takes it willingly.
Fully Built since sept 2007
did built motor, twins, fuel system, cooling, blah blah blah all at the same time. Sleeved with every mod under the hood.
Built motor at 28k miles. Car now has 34k.
broke a Tomei cam in half at 500 miles on the built motor. still have the cam sitting in the garage. SGP built the motor. SGP tore it down and sent the heads to the machine shop to do a once over. Put everything back together and retuned for 13psi (532whp). All on SGP's dime. Been running strong ever since. Has been to MSR houston for a track day. About to retune for 20psi and 100 shot of nitrous when the clutch is broken in.
I maintain this car by time rather than mileage as these days I only put about 800 miles a year on her. So once every 3 months (maybe 200-300 miles) I change the oil. Just put in a carbonetics triple and changed the tranny fluid. Recently she's been trying to get hot (last two times i've driven her). Either have air in teh cooling system or my thermo is going bad. Other than that, I beat on her everytime I drive her....and she takes it willingly.
Last edited by Old School; 12-14-2009 at 07:27 AM.
12-14-2009, 07:52 AM
#138
yes alberto my oil was sent to blackstone after every change and it has always come back in check with no signs of anything going on besides a healthy motor. I really feel like the 1/2 headstuds could be at fault. I know alot of shops like injected, sound performance, forged, GTM and intense that have done 4.2L and they all require sleeving but they use L19 headstuds. Most of the sleeve failures I see come from sub par machine work. It is alot of work to get sleeves installed right but if they are and coupled with the right supporting cooling mods I really think they are fine and add alot of rigidity to the block. This is just my 2cents
12-14-2009, 08:13 AM
#139
Registered User
Alberto,
I'm curious, do they attribute the bad oil analysis to anything? I mean is it coolant mixing with the oil or too much heat or what?
I ask cause we're not dealing with anything fancy here. Just forged internals vs cast (potentially) and more "air". Now if the heads are lifting and letting fluids mix thats bad of course, or is it metal materials (i.e. improper tollerances), but beyond that what is causing the oil to be "bad"?
Thanks,
Tom
I'm curious, do they attribute the bad oil analysis to anything? I mean is it coolant mixing with the oil or too much heat or what?
I ask cause we're not dealing with anything fancy here. Just forged internals vs cast (potentially) and more "air". Now if the heads are lifting and letting fluids mix thats bad of course, or is it metal materials (i.e. improper tollerances), but beyond that what is causing the oil to be "bad"?
Thanks,
Tom
12-14-2009, 08:39 AM
#140
Last analysis says they thought coolant was getting into oil.
BUT-I run Evans which I understand is asn oil based "coolant" so they may be seeing non standard attributes in my oil thinking I run regular coolant. This is why I have asked and asked everyone with built motors to spend $15 on this and SHARE the results. Over a couple months we could have MANY samples and see what is normal or what isnt.
But it wont happen, everybody wants info nobody is willing to share....
BUT-I run Evans which I understand is asn oil based "coolant" so they may be seeing non standard attributes in my oil thinking I run regular coolant. This is why I have asked and asked everyone with built motors to spend $15 on this and SHARE the results. Over a couple months we could have MANY samples and see what is normal or what isnt.
But it wont happen, everybody wants info nobody is willing to share....