Ag Z

Now that the system is being marketed how is timing controlled? Is it preset or is it adjustable? Is it by RPM or boost and/or both?

Is there any pics of the kit laid out so we can see just what we get for the $$$

Who makes this FMU? If it's before the inline pump it sounds like it's controlling the pump just like the aeromotive FMU that comes with the ATI setup.

Does it come with a bypass valve?

TIA

Jeff@Evolution

Ag Z, great questions. I'll ask them for you on Monday. Or maybe Steve from Vortech will be back in the office and answer them.

Jeff - Evolution

Forced

Ag,
The timing box is preset. It has a whole map of adjustments that we preset. I asked the lead engineer on this project and he said that it is dependant on boost and RPM. We don't want to say how much timing we take out (it is minimal) but we don't want to be copied that easy. There is not a laid out shot yet, I will do that soon. You can compare this to an S2000 kit:

Vortech makes the FMU and they work flawlessly. Turbo companies have bought these from us for years, in addition to us using them. The system comes with a Maxflow Race bypass/blowoff valve, shown here:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...Code=8D204-001

Jeff@Evolution

That was a quick reply.

zland

Steve, I am lame on the details so please help me out on this ok:

1. How accurate is this timing box? In other words, will it always make sure that the care does not lean out?
2. Is there any temp gauges that come with it? I am wondering what is the best way for customer to be checking the system to make sure everything is fine while driving or am I being to concerned and should just drive it and not worry?
3. Explain in detail the purpsoe of this Maxflow Race bypass/blowoff valve that comes with it.
4. You have no idea how much I appreciate you/vortec being on this forum. It is nice that you are interacting with customers. I am sure others have noticed as well. Everyone knows any product has the possibility of having problems. That is a given but what makes a good company is how you deal with the problems that arise and work with the customers.

Just consider me another potiential customer that is on a steep learning curve.

Jeff

zland

Steve, could you post a pic of the IC on the Z. I know Vortec is breaking their pattern and going air-cooled. It would be nice to see how it will look in the ft grill. Is it as big as the ATI?

Jeff

QuartZ

Consider me another future customer as so far I plan on the Vortech kit being my FIRST mod! So I want to know as much as possible.

I'd also love to see a layout shot of the kit as you do with others on your site like the S2K.

Also, could you get some video of the kit installed and running on a dyno? I don't care about the numbers really, just want to see/hear it running! I think that will put me over the top. I know it makes me go banannas when the TT guys post their videos.

Is any modification to the front bumper required to get the front mount intercooler to fit?

Thank you so much for everything, as zland stated, your dedication to us as a consumer group is definately appreciated. I'm a big fan of the 'personal' touch and vortech makes me feel comfortable.

-Dana

Buff

iTrader: (1)

Now we just need some Z guys from MD/VA to step up. And then, happy hunting

Jeff,

I'm not from the MD/VA area, but I am close enough.
(since she's going in to storage until Spring :->)

Ag Z

ZLand

Timing does not a cause a "lean" condition, it can cause KNOCK which can physically destroy a piston (think if a hammer hitting the piston as it coming up in the bore) broken ringlands and holes. A Lean condition can melt a piston. Either way you are up fecal river without means of propulsion.

What type of gages are you looking for? EGT? Only other ones would be IC efficiency. But that is only for people who really want to know too much about their cars and have nothing better to do. Oh wait I've done that before on a turbo car I had. EGT could be nice to see if you are running RICH/LEAN but that is really a tuning tool. And to use it as a safeguard you would have to have 6 probes and someway of warning you.

Bypass valves take the extra air the blower is making at idle and vents it to atmosphere, otherwise you end up like some Mustangs that have a blower and surge up and down at idle. Also when you shift it releases the boost so the blower is not just heating the air and you have boost spikes that can blow off a hose or damage other parts and less stress on the motor by letting the blower not work for that split second compressing the air in the intake track.

Forced

I was more interested in how the timing control interfaces with the car, where it plugs in at. Taking about 2* of timing out for each PSI is a safe rule of thumb. But each car is different.

I am sure that ATI will be one of your first customers, I am willing to say that there is ATI setup laying around Vortech, just like there is a 350Z sitting in Ford, GM, Toyota and few Euro manufacturers buildings it various degrees of disarray. So I am sure saying how it interfaces with the car is no big deal

So the FMU is a mechanical setup vice electronic like Aeromotive unit. A 1:1 setup? That is great if the Z had a return fueling setup. So that must mean there is a return setup in the kit?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand what I am getting into when I order the kit. I really like the fact that someone is controlling the timing. Not for joy that it's not adjustable, every car is different, but it's better than nothing. Tuning is the secret of any large mod to any car. Thanks for posting on here and telling us about the setup.

zland

From the little understanding I have, it sounds like a wastegate on a turbo, Is that correct?

Again, excuse my lack of knowledge. The only FI I have had is the Turbo on my Cummins and it is factory thus I did not have to learn about it or judge its reliability in the samw way being that engine is known to be a 1/2 million mile motor.

Jeff

Ag Z

Think of it more like a BOV that is always open till you go to WOT. Then it shuts and lets the engine see the boost. Lessens the stress on the engine(only spinning the SC I think I read about .5 hp it takes to spin it) and the supercharger (not compressing the air).

If there was boost before the TB the computer couldn't close the TB or IAC (depending on the car) enough to keep the extra air out of the intake. So it would have an erratic or high idle, with the Bypass installed and working it keeps the air pressure at 0 psi before the TB just like if the SC was not there. But when the intake is at 0 psi the bypass will close and give you boost Think about the pressure differences in front and behind the TB when it's close, then at WOT it's the same and the Bypass closes.

A wastegate is there to control boost after it has reached the desired level were the Bypass is there to control the boost when it's not needed.

I hope clears it up some, took me some time to think how a BOV/Bypass are close but not the same.

Jeff@Performance

Just got back from SEMA and had some long conversations with the guys at the Vortech booth. I must say I was impressed with the set up they have as well as the engine management system. I would like to see some people get some miles on these and see what happens. After the (VERY FEW) ATI meltdowns, the engine management here may solve the problem altogether. I still believe to do it right you still need to at least get some forged pistons in place....... we will see. Good luck to you Vortech, you may have a winner here. Jeff

Forced

I mentioned this earlier, but...

From the stock fuel pump...it goes into the FMU, then into the in-line fuel pump, then up to the motor. Hope that helps.

Forced

I will try to get some video of the blower running on the car and get the pics of the cooler up on Monday. I don't believe you have to modify anything to get the cooler to fit in the front. You do drop the shroud under the front to mount up everything. I will double check.

Forced

1. The timing box is accurate enough for us to be comfortable selling the system. This is not the first time we have used the vendor of the box. So it should work good.
2. I personally have an Autometer dual channel air temperature gauge on my Mustang. One channel right after the supercharger and one channel after the cooler to see what the temp is going into the motor. This also shows the amount of heat the cooler is taking out. It's really a neat gauge.
3. I think Ag got this one covered. If not let me know.
4. I feel that we need to get all the questions answered so that the public won't be as gun shy about buying the system. I think if we didn't do this, we would be missing a great opportunity.

Another page you guys might want to check out is:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/support/faq.html
It may answer a few more questions that you may have.

Ag Z

Steve

I have used a Vortech SFMU before, currently running a Aeromotive FPR and had the Paxton unit on a car also.

ALL the setups I have seen or used (3) with an external Fuel Pressure Regulator is: Tank-pump-engine-FPR-return line to tank. FPR decreases the return line orfice to increase the fuel pressure at the injector. There is no real fuel pressure after the FPR to speak of in the return line.
With my blown LS1 setup before I upgraded everything it was tank-pump-"T" block with a stock intank FPR on the return then a pump inline but that caused an uncontrolled increase in stock fuel pressure that had to be tuned for with LS1Edit software.

With the setup with the kit there is no way of controlling the fuel pressure(unless you are controlling the voltage to the pump), when there is a pump inline after the fuel pressure regulator. And there is no return so the pump has to be acting as the FPR.

I guess I'll ask this

Is there fuel return line from the FMU to the tank? Fuel flows in/out of it right?

I am thinking it's something like this Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump setup

Maybe a peek at the install manual or pics of the FMU would be great.

Sorry about being a pain but like to know exactly what what I am getting into before I lay down the $$$$$.

Forced

From your stock pump, into the FMU, then out of the FMU into the inline pump and up to the motor. No return line to the tank. The fuel pressure is not adjustable, it is increased by the FMU (I will have to check on the ratio of the FMU). If it is for example a 12:1, then for every 1 psi of boost, fuel pressure will increase by 12 psi. I will more info tomorrow.

TereP

The startup belt squeal on the ATI is an improperly tensioned serpentine belt. The Vortech will have the same belt squeal if the serpentine is improperly tensioned.

FYI, an improperly tensioned belt = eventual belt failure. So those ATI folks who have belt squeal, tighten the serpentine tension!

chazzg

iTrader: (1)

If i understand this right(Steve) The Vortec is making about 125 RWHP so if you add that to a normal dyno(240 Rwhp) that is 365 Rwhp. So with my Current mods add the Vortec = 386 Rwhp

D_Nyholm

Though that does sound about right, you can't just take the numbers and add them up. YOu may get 350 RWHP, you may get 400RWHP. THere is no way to say for certain unless you strap it on your car!!