***ProEFi 128 Unit w/FlexFuel Review***
04-06-2010, 05:14 PM
#61
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The ProEFI is Plug and Play on the 03 350z, however not so on the 03 G35 sedans that utilize a different plug at the ECU. I have had to hard wire these but of course they still work!!
04-06-2010, 06:22 PM
#62
You can update the firmware with 'a few clicks' with the ProEFI as well. Unlimited redo/undo can get you into just as much trouble as not having it at all. You have undo/redo on the ProEFI as well, but it is latched to the current open window (a VERY good thing).
The rest is opinion. I love the live data trace display...saves a TON of time and saves the history in it's buffer, so you don't have to commit to saving the log until you know you want to keep it. The rest is very simple to read, and doesn't allow for you to miss much...things just stand out at you, so you know the basic configuration without having to dig for it.
An alarm trigger requires the guy behind the wheel to react. The ProEFI just reacts for you and let's you know that it reacted. Therefore the driver can't ignore things like low oil pressure at high rpm, or overboost above a preset desired amount, lean conditions above a certain amount and boost pressure etc....
The rest is opinion. I love the live data trace display...saves a TON of time and saves the history in it's buffer, so you don't have to commit to saving the log until you know you want to keep it. The rest is very simple to read, and doesn't allow for you to miss much...things just stand out at you, so you know the basic configuration without having to dig for it.
An alarm trigger requires the guy behind the wheel to react. The ProEFI just reacts for you and let's you know that it reacted. Therefore the driver can't ignore things like low oil pressure at high rpm, or overboost above a preset desired amount, lean conditions above a certain amount and boost pressure etc....
So what is the "create ECU file" and why does it ask for a "Base SRZ to merge into"? So you have to merge a firmware and map together, combining files somehow? Clunky!!! The graphics are also slow and get messed up on screen refreshes - fonts overwrite each other. And no undo / redo is horrible. If you accidentally mistype into a cell and don't know what was there before, then what? The demo crashes if you click the "Flash ECU" option after reporting that the "Core Control Server" license is expired. Various parameters have underscores in the GUI. Again, I can understand it, but it's clunky. Written by programmers for programmers, not end users. No context sensitive help, you cannot resize windows, you cannot move windows around, you cannot really customize displays or gauges (but you can type in hex code to change colors!), units are pretty fixed (few options to change only), axes are fixed, well, the list goes on...
Don't even start with me about this being a matter of opinion. I've tried both software and it's like comparing Windows 95 to Windows 7. Or comparing WordPerfect to the latest version of Word. Sure they both work, but jeez, you can tell they are a generation apart. The ProEFI GUI looks "hard coded" and the Haltech's is almost infinitely customizable by the end user. You can select any gauge type, pick any channel, and put it anywhere at any size! It's sweet and all ProEFI tuners would love the interface improvements if the ProEFI could emulate some of the Haltech wizardry.
I've already conceded the ProEFI 128 looks to be the better ECU. These are just areas where improvement would be appreciated in the tuner software so please don't take offense - just meant to be constructive criticism - there's always room for improvement, right?
Last edited by rcdash; 04-06-2010 at 07:26 PM.
04-06-2010, 07:02 PM
#63
Larry, thanks for answering questions - looking good. 
I've tried the ProEFI software and in offline mode, I can go in and out of standby and it keeps on ticking so that's good news for my carPC integration. Is there any way to customize the gauge display on the main screen? Having the CAN gauge is nice, but seeing multiple gauges at once on my LCD screen would be fantastic. That said, these are niceties and the failsafe functionality takes precedence. And there is always the CAN gauge...
Larry, also noticed some 5AT specific parameters in the 1.8 demo that are not "live" in offline mode. Are those working? I've never seen any specific functionality offered for automatic transmissions before! I suspect this would entail deciphering CAN communication between the ECM and TCM. Probably not going to happen. Maybe this stuff would work with a TH400 thrown in there though?
One last question: do you think if I got you a 0-5V signal that indicates methanol injection flow, you could use that to interpolate fuel and timing maps the way you do for E85?
I've tried the ProEFI software and in offline mode, I can go in and out of standby and it keeps on ticking so that's good news for my carPC integration. Is there any way to customize the gauge display on the main screen? Having the CAN gauge is nice, but seeing multiple gauges at once on my LCD screen would be fantastic. That said, these are niceties and the failsafe functionality takes precedence. And there is always the CAN gauge...Larry, also noticed some 5AT specific parameters in the 1.8 demo that are not "live" in offline mode. Are those working? I've never seen any specific functionality offered for automatic transmissions before! I suspect this would entail deciphering CAN communication between the ECM and TCM. Probably not going to happen. Maybe this stuff would work with a TH400 thrown in there though?
One last question: do you think if I got you a 0-5V signal that indicates methanol injection flow, you could use that to interpolate fuel and timing maps the way you do for E85?
Last edited by rcdash; 04-07-2010 at 07:27 AM.
04-07-2010, 08:03 AM
#64
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So what is the "create ECU file" and why does it ask for a "Base SRZ to merge into"? So you have to merge a firmware and map together, combining files somehow? Clunky!!! The graphics are also slow and get messed up on screen refreshes - fonts overwrite each other. And no undo / redo is horrible. If you accidentally mistype into a cell and don't know what was there before, then what? The demo crashes if you click the "Flash ECU" option after reporting that the "Core Control Server" license is expired. Various parameters have underscores in the GUI. Again, I can understand it, but it's clunky. Written by programmers for programmers, not end users. No context sensitive help, you cannot resize windows, you cannot move windows around, you cannot really customize displays or gauges (but you can type in hex code to change colors!), units are pretty fixed (few options to change only), axes are fixed, well, the list goes on...
Don't even start with me about this being a matter of opinion. I've tried both software and it's like comparing Windows 95 to Windows 7. Or comparing WordPerfect to the latest version of Word. Sure they both work, but jeez, you can tell they are a generation apart. The ProEFI GUI looks "hard coded" and the Haltech's is almost infinitely customizable by the end user. You can select any gauge type, pick any channel, and put it anywhere at any size! It's sweet and all ProEFI tuners would love the interface improvements if the ProEFI could emulate some of the Haltech wizardry.
I've already conceded the ProEFI 128 looks to be the better ECU. These are just areas where improvement would be appreciated in the tuner software so please don't take offense - just meant to be constructive criticism - there's always room for improvement, right?
Don't even start with me about this being a matter of opinion. I've tried both software and it's like comparing Windows 95 to Windows 7. Or comparing WordPerfect to the latest version of Word. Sure they both work, but jeez, you can tell they are a generation apart. The ProEFI GUI looks "hard coded" and the Haltech's is almost infinitely customizable by the end user. You can select any gauge type, pick any channel, and put it anywhere at any size! It's sweet and all ProEFI tuners would love the interface improvements if the ProEFI could emulate some of the Haltech wizardry.
I've already conceded the ProEFI 128 looks to be the better ECU. These are just areas where improvement would be appreciated in the tuner software so please don't take offense - just meant to be constructive criticism - there's always room for improvement, right?
Doesn't mean you should improve on that, but its clear to note that, 1st you need to have the capabilities and make sure they are working before fixating on making stuff fancy....the demo version wont be like the user released version..its a demo, and things to improve such as what you noted will be considered.
The recommendations are valid but its besides the point of what should matter the most to tuners and end users....heck the software on the emanage was nice too
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 04-07-2010 at 08:04 AM.
04-07-2010, 08:22 AM
#66
sure, but you are overly fixating on something that isn't related to the tune of capabilities of the ems...its like fixating on having a product with "cute" packaging, colored and high quality pages of instructions, etc....
Doesn't mean you should improve on that, but its clear to note that, 1st you need to have the capabilities and make sure they are working before fixating on making stuff fancy....the demo version wont be like the user released version..its a demo, and things to improve such as what you noted will be considered.
The recommendations are valid but its besides the point of what should matter the most to tuners and end users....heck the software on the emanage was nice too
Doesn't mean you should improve on that, but its clear to note that, 1st you need to have the capabilities and make sure they are working before fixating on making stuff fancy....the demo version wont be like the user released version..its a demo, and things to improve such as what you noted will be considered.
The recommendations are valid but its besides the point of what should matter the most to tuners and end users....heck the software on the emanage was nice too
I'm not "overly" anything and none of what I mentioned is besides the point. I'm calling it like I see it and I stated quite clearly what my priorities were (find the word "niceties" above in my post). I wouldn't be considering a move from the Haltech if that weren't the case. They are both great, solid solutions but have strengths in different areas.
The biggest advantage the ProEFI has over the Haltech is the ability to integrate failsafes via external sensors. I am thoroughly impressed with this. It becomes even better if internal sensors can be utilized via CAN integration. I've been waiting for this and I think this platform is finally there.
All good! Peace.
Last edited by rcdash; 04-07-2010 at 08:28 AM.
04-07-2010, 09:59 AM
#67
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settle down...i am not making it a big deal.
I am just putting things in perspective so that others(specially n00bs) see the bigger picture rather than focus on technicalities, your suggestions SHOULD be improved anyways.... but ill take fuctionality/tune/features over a just a cute GUI. Eventually i would defiantly want more GUI improvements, but it shouldnt be 1st thing on the list.
I am just putting things in perspective so that others(specially n00bs) see the bigger picture rather than focus on technicalities, your suggestions SHOULD be improved anyways.... but ill take fuctionality/tune/features over a just a cute GUI. Eventually i would defiantly want more GUI improvements, but it shouldnt be 1st thing on the list.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 04-07-2010 at 10:16 AM.
04-07-2010, 02:44 PM
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An alarm trigger of some kind is very important so that you know something is wrong (limp mode, cel light, etc). I have spare LEDs in my A-pillar so if the ProEFI can just turn those on, that would be fine.
So what is the "create ECU file" and why does it ask for a "Base SRZ to merge into"? So you have to merge a firmware and map together, combining files somehow? Clunky!!! The graphics are also slow and get messed up on screen refreshes - fonts overwrite each other. And no undo / redo is horrible. If you accidentally mistype into a cell and don't know what was there before, then what? The demo crashes if you click the "Flash ECU" option after reporting that the "Core Control Server" license is expired. Various parameters have underscores in the GUI. Again, I can understand it, but it's clunky. Written by programmers for programmers, not end users. No context sensitive help, you cannot resize windows, you cannot move windows around, you cannot really customize displays or gauges (but you can type in hex code to change colors!), units are pretty fixed (few options to change only), axes are fixed, well, the list goes on...
Don't even start with me about this being a matter of opinion. I've tried both software and it's like comparing Windows 95 to Windows 7. Or comparing WordPerfect to the latest version of Word. Sure they both work, but jeez, you can tell they are a generation apart. The ProEFI GUI looks "hard coded" and the Haltech's is almost infinitely customizable by the end user. You can select any gauge type, pick any channel, and put it anywhere at any size! It's sweet and all ProEFI tuners would love the interface improvements if the ProEFI could emulate some of the Haltech wizardry.
I've already conceded the ProEFI 128 looks to be the better ECU. These are just areas where improvement would be appreciated in the tuner software so please don't take offense - just meant to be constructive criticism - there's always room for improvement, right?
So what is the "create ECU file" and why does it ask for a "Base SRZ to merge into"? So you have to merge a firmware and map together, combining files somehow? Clunky!!! The graphics are also slow and get messed up on screen refreshes - fonts overwrite each other. And no undo / redo is horrible. If you accidentally mistype into a cell and don't know what was there before, then what? The demo crashes if you click the "Flash ECU" option after reporting that the "Core Control Server" license is expired. Various parameters have underscores in the GUI. Again, I can understand it, but it's clunky. Written by programmers for programmers, not end users. No context sensitive help, you cannot resize windows, you cannot move windows around, you cannot really customize displays or gauges (but you can type in hex code to change colors!), units are pretty fixed (few options to change only), axes are fixed, well, the list goes on...
Don't even start with me about this being a matter of opinion. I've tried both software and it's like comparing Windows 95 to Windows 7. Or comparing WordPerfect to the latest version of Word. Sure they both work, but jeez, you can tell they are a generation apart. The ProEFI GUI looks "hard coded" and the Haltech's is almost infinitely customizable by the end user. You can select any gauge type, pick any channel, and put it anywhere at any size! It's sweet and all ProEFI tuners would love the interface improvements if the ProEFI could emulate some of the Haltech wizardry.
I've already conceded the ProEFI 128 looks to be the better ECU. These are just areas where improvement would be appreciated in the tuner software so please don't take offense - just meant to be constructive criticism - there's always room for improvement, right?
And it is a matter of opinion. I would take the software that proefi has over anything else I have used...haltech, motec, or aem. What do you need to customize ANYTHING for? Everything you need to tune is right in front of you. The only reason you would need to "customize" anything is if the designer didn't give you the information you need to perform the task at hand. All of the live logging traces can be added from any Trace viewer....that's all you need when tuning. The trace viewers are pre-set up with the channels you need for each tuning task. Ex. Boost control has all of the standard engine stuff (rpm, O2, timing etc..) and the boost information. If you want to go make changes to idle...go to idle, and that one is all setup for you. You just need to understand why it's there and what it's purpose is. That doesn't mean it's clunky or inferior...just means you don't understand what your looking at yet. Like anything it takes a bit to get used to the layout. Once you do... things go really fast with it. Don't judge it until you have had a chance to put one on a car and play with it in real time.
Last edited by 1ZweetZ; 04-07-2010 at 02:53 PM.
04-07-2010, 07:48 PM
#69
3 clicks and you have a new file to put in your ecu (updated). Mine doesn't crash, fonts are fine. The license update will be there until they have the final version released (this forces the end user to get the latest stuff). Help files are there by simply 'right clicking' on the thing you need help on.
And it is a matter of opinion. I would take the software that proefi has over anything else I have used...haltech, motec, or aem. What do you need to customize ANYTHING for? Everything you need to tune is right in front of you. The only reason you would need to "customize" anything is if the designer didn't give you the information you need to perform the task at hand. All of the live logging traces can be added from any Trace viewer....that's all you need when tuning. The trace viewers are pre-set up with the channels you need for each tuning task. Ex. Boost control has all of the standard engine stuff (rpm, O2, timing etc..) and the boost information. If you want to go make changes to idle...go to idle, and that one is all setup for you. You just need to understand why it's there and what it's purpose is. That doesn't mean it's clunky or inferior...just means you don't understand what your looking at yet. Like anything it takes a bit to get used to the layout. Once you do... things go really fast with it. Don't judge it until you have had a chance to put one on a car and play with it in real time.
And it is a matter of opinion. I would take the software that proefi has over anything else I have used...haltech, motec, or aem. What do you need to customize ANYTHING for? Everything you need to tune is right in front of you. The only reason you would need to "customize" anything is if the designer didn't give you the information you need to perform the task at hand. All of the live logging traces can be added from any Trace viewer....that's all you need when tuning. The trace viewers are pre-set up with the channels you need for each tuning task. Ex. Boost control has all of the standard engine stuff (rpm, O2, timing etc..) and the boost information. If you want to go make changes to idle...go to idle, and that one is all setup for you. You just need to understand why it's there and what it's purpose is. That doesn't mean it's clunky or inferior...just means you don't understand what your looking at yet. Like anything it takes a bit to get used to the layout. Once you do... things go really fast with it. Don't judge it until you have had a chance to put one on a car and play with it in real time.
I have to say that some parts of the software are impressive given the amount of time and resources available for development. I am liking what I see more and more as I learn about this unit though. The hardware is so robust, I can see that it would take a lot of work to get software to wrap around it and make it look easy to set up. I guess I'm not your average user, but at the same time, your average tuner won't be in a position to voice issues so bluntly, so I figure I'd help 'em all out.
What do you need to customize anything for? Ummm, so I can read it? So I can see more cells at once? So I can rotate the 3D displays to see cells that are obscured? So I can see my analog sensors on a virtual gauge display? If you have to ask, then you've never actually used the Haltech ECU manager. It's a free download from Injected's website - give it a whirl and you'll see what I'm talking about. www.injectedperformance.com/haltech
Don't get me wrong - this end user software is not bad - at all! I mean it's light years ahead of the UTEC. I just don't like how you make it out to be god's gift to tuners. Nothing is perfect man and there's always room for improvement. Can you deal with it?
Last edited by rcdash; 04-08-2010 at 05:15 AM.
04-08-2010, 08:12 AM
#71
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Ok if you say so! I certainly hope the final release becomes more stable and less clunky... (the right click menu options all don't work, even when the software doesn't crash, by the way). Please note the overlapping fonts for me below. I mean I cannot tell what some of the cells are for like the "Manifold..." that reads 100??? Many right click help fields say "none".
I have to say that some parts of the software are impressive given the amount of time and resources available for development. I am liking what I see more and more as I learn about this unit though. The hardware is so robust, I can see that it would take a lot of work to get software to wrap around it and make it look easy to set up. I guess I'm not your average user, but at the same time, your average tuner won't be in a position to voice issues so bluntly, so I figure I'd help 'em all out.
What do you need to customize anything for? Ummm, so I can read it? So I can see more cells at once? So I can rotate the 3D displays to see cells that are obscured? So I can see my analog sensors on a virtual gauge display? If you have to ask, then you've never actually used the Haltech ECU manager. It's a free download from Injected's website - give it a whirl and you'll see what I'm talking about. www.injectedperformance.com/haltech
I have to say that some parts of the software are impressive given the amount of time and resources available for development. I am liking what I see more and more as I learn about this unit though. The hardware is so robust, I can see that it would take a lot of work to get software to wrap around it and make it look easy to set up. I guess I'm not your average user, but at the same time, your average tuner won't be in a position to voice issues so bluntly, so I figure I'd help 'em all out.
What do you need to customize anything for? Ummm, so I can read it? So I can see more cells at once? So I can rotate the 3D displays to see cells that are obscured? So I can see my analog sensors on a virtual gauge display? If you have to ask, then you've never actually used the Haltech ECU manager. It's a free download from Injected's website - give it a whirl and you'll see what I'm talking about. www.injectedperformance.com/haltech
The yellow x's are just tables not available in the calibration you opened. What size screen are you using? 6"??? You can scroll the maps around at will by holding right click and moving your mouse. I wouldn't call that 'customizing' though. You can pull any channel in the strip chart you want. I have used the Haltech ECU manager...don't care for it. What is it that you want to set up? Oil pressure? Fuel Pressure? Trans pressure? Trans temp? Turbo Speed? It's all pre-setup in the proefi software. Just pull in the channel you want to see and it will display it with history. Or do you just want to look at a virtual gauge...because...that is soooo useful when tuning
. AEM has that in their software NEVER USED IT ONCE... Gauges are worthless for tuning.. you need to see trends tied to other data, something gauges will NOT do for you, but trace viewers (like data logs) will. Personally I wish Proefi would get rid of the gauges they have and make room for more useful tuning things, but I realize that is what some people think they want. BTW, what OS is your PC on?
Last edited by 1ZweetZ; 04-08-2010 at 08:33 AM.
04-08-2010, 08:59 AM
#72
I'm running XP on a Samsung NC10 netbook - great little pc for using in the car - battery life of 8 hrs using a 64GB flash hard drive. Display is 1024 x 600. My font sizes are set to small - not sure why they all overlap like that, but the demo software clearly has a problem with smaller laptop displays...
Gauges are very helpful for road tuning and for monitoring of temps, pressure, etc. More for end user use instead of buying multiple gauges or scrolling through various displays in the one CAN gauge. Virtual gauge display - never heard of it? Not many folks have carPC setups I suppose. I'd be willing to give this all up if the CAN gauge can automatically display alarm conditions - that would be best of both worlds - compact and immediate notification of a problem. Can it do that? So if my trans temp goes over 240 it would blink or something like that? If not, is it possible that it can be made to do that by the ProEFI developers?
Last edited by rcdash; 04-08-2010 at 09:11 AM.
04-08-2010, 09:45 AM
#73
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The idea behind customization is to fit whatever display device you have available to you. You don't want gauges, great, you just get rid of them. You want one display with a big grid, you just resize the window! See even you would benefit from it - precisely because one size does not fit all. I thought that type of mentality died out with MS-DOS!
I'm running XP on a Samsung NC10 netbook - great little pc for using in the car - battery life of 8 hrs using a 64GB flash hard drive. Display is 1024 x 600. My font sizes are set to small - not sure why they all overlap like that, but the demo software clearly has a problem with smaller laptop displays...
Gauges are very helpful for road tuning and for monitoring of temps, pressure, etc. More for end user use instead of buying multiple gauges or scrolling through various displays in the one CAN gauge. Virtual gauge display - never heard of it? Not many folks have carPC setups I suppose. I'd be willing to give this all up if the CAN gauge can automatically display alarm conditions - that would be best of both worlds - compact and immediate notification of a problem. Can it do that? So if my trans temp goes over 240 it would blink or something like that? If not, is it possible that it can be made to do that by the ProEFI developers?
I'm running XP on a Samsung NC10 netbook - great little pc for using in the car - battery life of 8 hrs using a 64GB flash hard drive. Display is 1024 x 600. My font sizes are set to small - not sure why they all overlap like that, but the demo software clearly has a problem with smaller laptop displays...
Gauges are very helpful for road tuning and for monitoring of temps, pressure, etc. More for end user use instead of buying multiple gauges or scrolling through various displays in the one CAN gauge. Virtual gauge display - never heard of it? Not many folks have carPC setups I suppose. I'd be willing to give this all up if the CAN gauge can automatically display alarm conditions - that would be best of both worlds - compact and immediate notification of a problem. Can it do that? So if my trans temp goes over 240 it would blink or something like that? If not, is it possible that it can be made to do that by the ProEFI developers?
04-08-2010, 09:52 AM
#74
As SP stated, the fault codes trigger a check engine (which can be any light you connect to the proefi). All of the sensor inputs have fault limits to trigger fault conditions, so rather than just having a light turn on, you can have it lower boost, turn off nitrous, and kick in a rev limiter if you want. No display will ever allow you to catch things that quickly.
PS. In offline mode, I cannot tell if you can have 2 actions or 4 actions with each failsafe trigger. Do you know which?
Last edited by rcdash; 04-08-2010 at 10:01 AM.
04-08-2010, 11:08 AM
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The failsafe functionality is why I'm likely going to jump ship! It is very cool. So I can have a dedicated LED that indicates an alarm condition and turn that on to let me know to check the CAN gauge for the specific issue? That is almost as good as having the alarm built into the CAN gauge or having the CAN gauge auto-select the faulting sensor reading... Anyway, that will do.
PS. In offline mode, I cannot tell if you can have 2 actions or 4 actions with each failsafe trigger. Do you know which?
PS. In offline mode, I cannot tell if you can have 2 actions or 4 actions with each failsafe trigger. Do you know which?
4 actions (the second two are on the next page!).
04-08-2010, 12:46 PM
#76
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rcdash...looking at 1zweetzs screen capture and yours...hmmm did you try going to a higher resolution in your screen?
edit. nm Saw you posted your computer specs with the screen....thats definatly it...i guess it will take a bit of getting used to navigate, but anyways...
one think i guess the gauges in the software that can be some what useful woudl be to have a cool display on those that have "carputers' lol
What woudl be cool is to let the proefi handle the issue but give you the warning light just so you know something did happen to check later but you know the ecu keep you(engine) safe already
edit. nm Saw you posted your computer specs with the screen....thats definatly it...i guess it will take a bit of getting used to navigate, but anyways...
one think i guess the gauges in the software that can be some what useful woudl be to have a cool display on those that have "carputers' lol
What woudl be cool is to let the proefi handle the issue but give you the warning light just so you know something did happen to check later but you know the ecu keep you(engine) safe already
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 04-08-2010 at 01:11 PM.
04-08-2010, 01:33 PM
#77
Not so concerned anymore - I won't be tuning the car anyway. I did want to have the hook up to the carPC for datalogging and that's an 800x600 screen - hope it will be workable. The CAN gauge and check engine LED will complete the install. Now let's get that CAN integration out the door!
04-08-2010, 03:18 PM
#79
I don't think it is a screen res problem. It just appears not to scale properly or a wide screen issue. If I run it at 1920 x 1200 on the external monitor it is ok.
Dell M1330 with resolution of 1280x800 on 13" screen you can see it is the same as RCDASH
Dell M1330 with resolution of 1280x800 on 13" screen you can see it is the same as RCDASH
Last edited by MR RIZK; 04-08-2010 at 03:20 PM.
